How do you lose from here???

[Williebetmore]

Well, straight pool fanatics, I thought I would peel open a recently healed wound, and show you this position. I was playing a game of straight pool to 150 with a top professional player, and I was ahead 149-123 (no, I know what you're thinking; you think I'm dreaming, but this is true, I was being spotted 80 balls and had to get truly lucky to get on the hill). I had made my break shot, but was frozen to another ball; I played a safety leaving the position below for the pro.

I will tell you that I lost this game, but what do you think the pro did from here? Remember we were playing on the "Diamond Model 666" (designed by SATAN!!!!! - and you've rarely played on a table with pockets this tight and cut this deep - side pockets allow about a ball and a half).

 

[1pRoscoe]

He either walked the 14 all the way up, or actually pulled off a 7-9-6-5 side.

 

[Williebetmore]

He either walked the 14 all the way up, or actually pulled off a 7-9-6-5 side.

OOPS, the 5 was a little lower, and prevents the 14 in the corner (it looked different when I made the table on the wei diagram). The side pocket was open for the 14 if you want to shoot it. Sorry.

 

[Rickw]

9 in the left side off the 7? From this angle, it looks like the tangent line between the 9 and 6 look like the 9 is on for the left side. If it was me, I'd graze the 15 with left english and put the cb right back where it is.

 

[chefjeff]

OOPS, the 5 was a little lower, and prevents the 14 in the corner (it looked different when I made the table on the wei diagram). The side pocket was open for the 14 if you want to shoot it. Sorry.

By your description, I'd have to guess he hit the 14 into that little side pocket and took it from there.

Do I win the prize?

Jeff Livingston

 

[jaz]

If the diagram is accurate, I'd play the 8 in the upper right corner, take the shape and work it out from there...

 

[Williebetmore]

The pro stepped up, and without hesitation, cut that 14 into the side pocket with a medium firm stroke, got perfect position on the 15, from there to the center of the table, and ran the rest of the rack, getting good position on the 10 for the break shot.

I was dumbfounded at the authoritative stroke used to pocket the 14. But I was told that if you extend an imaginary line from the side pocket to the position of the corner ball of the rack, that any object ball falling within that area (meaning the object ball is not between this line and the long rail) can be pocketed using whatever speed you desire to obtain position. Object balls closer to the long rail than this line can still be made, but require a slow roll and perfect speed to drop in (depending on how deep the pocket is set). I would have felt better about it if my opponent had taken longer than 2 seconds to decide to shoot the shot (I would have agonized over it for a fair bit).

My opponent, however, MISSED the 10 ball break shot, leaving the score 149-137. It was my shot, table wide open (diagrammed below), needing 1 ball. Unfortunately, my only options were to shoot jacked up at the 1 or the 8; or to shoot an 87 degree cut shot on the 13. I chose to try to cut the 13, it jawed, and my opponent ran 13 and out. Final score 150-149. I think I'll take up 9-ball. I had been ahead at one point 146-80, and I had 3 more scoring opportunities (and one epic "7 safeties/intentional scratches in a row" battle), but could not get past 149 (I was there 3 times, twice falling back with intentional scratches). It just shows how really good the professional players are - I think they've wasted WAY too much time playing pool.

 

[sjm]

Let's face it, Willie, you got hosed. In the pro's position I'm either playing the eight in the corner or a safety. In your postion, though, I think I'd have taken my chances with the one in the corner.

Not many players can make the fourteen in the side on tight equipment.

 

[TheOne]

Willie I think you also have to take into account he got lucky from abad break shot. You said he missed it but despite that he still left you as they say in Engalnd "didley"! (nothing). Any other time he would have left you an easy shot on atleast one ball, if he made the break shot he would also have been facing the tough shot you had. Just unlucky in this particular instance

 

[TATE]

That 14 in the side shot is tough!

It reminded me of a time I was playing a tight 9 ball match. I had a shot like that 14 in the side. I decided to play safe instead and bank the ball downtable. Problem was I needed to get the cue ball to draw a little so I hit
it pretty hard - I knew the object ball would hit blockers so I wasn't worried. I messed up the aim and to my utter surprise the object ball slammed into the side pocket. My opponent's jaw dropped and people were whooping it up. I just pretended that was my shot and ran out.

Chris

 

[chefjeff]

The pro stepped up, and without hesitation, cut that 14 into the side pocket with a medium firm stroke, got perfect position on the 15, from there to the center of the table, and ran the rest of the rack, <snip>QUOTE]

I'll take the prize in gold, if you please, sir.

Jeff Livingston

 

[Williebetmore]

SJM,
Of interest, when faced with the last shot, I tried to get the pro to tell me which of the 3 balls to shoot. The answer was, "whichever one you feel comfortable with." I replied, "I don't feel comfortable with any of them, that's why I'm asking." After I shot (and missed) I was told our friend would have also shot the 13 (it was definitely makeable, but very difficult).

Realize we were not playing for anything but bragging rights, and I think that could have affected the pro's shot selection on the 14 (though not many pro's like to lose even in a friendly match - there was definitely some trash talking involved, and not on my part).

ChefJeff,
Sorry, no prize, but you definitely have guts to shoot the 14. I will shoot these in the future, once I shoot another 3 or 4 (thousand) in practice

Tate,
That's why 9-ball is a stupid game for players of your caliber . Tonight on ESPN2, Jimmy Wych and Mitch Lawrance were crowing about Earl's "shot of the decade" where he was snookered, kicked at the 2-ball (one rail), and accidentally made the nine as the cue ball went off another 2 rails (to end the hill-hill game). What a yawn. The 14-ball called in the side is, in my opinion, about 20 times more impressive than Earl slopping in the 9 in a short race 9-ball match (those pockets on t.v tonight looked a little loose, but I could be wrong). JMO

The One,
You are so right. Despite all my ranting about the evils of rotation games, and on the beauty of straight pool; we would all have to agree that there is a certain amount of luck involved in 14.1 (but certainly not as much). Realize, that I would bet any amount of money that the pro would have made that 13 ball if given the opportunity.

 

[TheOne]

Willie, that brings up a point that I have never really understood, why in a game like 9 ball do you not have to call your shots? I always thought this was very silly since you have to 8 ball, and it would make much more sense in 9 ball? (eg in 9 you have a good chance of winning the game if you smashed whatever ball your on into the 9, esp on big pockets, or damn it even if any ball goes in you still get another shot as long as you it the correct ball first! Silly game LOL)

Hard to tell from a diagram but yes, if the ball in the corner was cutable then a top player would probably make it.

 

[Celtic]

my only options were to shoot jacked up at the 1 or the 8; or to shoot an 87 degree cut shot on the 13.

From your diagram of the table at that point I would play neither. I would shoot the 3-12 combo for the corner, purposely aiming the combo overcut, you have a huge aiming section along the rail where that 12 goes in and the angle of the cueball to the 3-12 is almost natural for the full hit. Basically the 12 ball can hit 3 inches away from the pocket, or it can hit at or slightly before the diamond, either way it will go in off the 13 ball. That is a huge aiming point on a combo set up as that is. The shot is worlds easier then either shot you mentioned on that layout.

 

[sjm]

Tonight on ESPN2, Jimmy Wych and Mitch Lawrance were crowing about Earl's "shot of the decade" where he was snookered, kicked at the 2-ball (one rail), and accidentally made the nine as the cue ball went off another 2 rails (to end the hill-hill game).

The moment was historic, Willie, as the review of that shot constituted some of the worst pool commentary of this or any other decade. In addition, as it came at double hill in a TV round match of a major tournament, the shot deserves to go down as one of the luckiest shots of this or any other decade. That shot wouldn't have been the shot of the match in loser's side action in a "D" tournament.

Also noteworthy is that nothing in Earl's or Danny's reaction gave testament to the fact that the match-deciding shot was a fluke. In tennis, when a player mishits a shot off the racket frame, strangely redirecting the shot into a winner, a sportsmanlike acknowledgement that the shot was a fluke is standard. In three cushion billiards, a fluke, especially in the case of a point scored despite a failure to beat a kiss that seeemingly had to avoided, is quickly and routinely acknowledged in a sportsmanlike way. In both of those sports, the customary and affable chuckle typically shared by the players humanizes them and places them in a very positive light. Not so in pool, where demonstrative acts of good sportsmanship are not very deeply embedded in the etiquette, not even in trhe case of a many time world champion.

Earl was right to get as excited as he did, and hitting the two did constitue a good shot under the circumstances, but a visible acknowledgement that the winning shot was a fluke would have made the match far more memorable, and would have done far more to promote the sport of pool.

By the way, Harriman gets high marks here for not conducting himself in a way that would have tended to detract from his opponent's victory, but the fact remains that pool and TV tried to pull a fast one on an audience it obviously believes to be clueless. Nice try!

PS. Did you notice that even if the nine had hung, Earl had, somehow, managed to leave the two safe, frozen to and underneath another ball? Wonder if the commentators would have been singing the praises of the safety, even thought the two had gone around the table seven hundred times by that point.

 

[piglit]

The moment was historic, Willie...

Harriman gets high marks here for not conducting himself in a way that would have tended to detract from his opponent's victory...

Helluva shot, any way you look at it. Helluva hit, hell of a lucky! And to come at hill- hill. And to come for the one player who never gets lucky?!

Danny's face after the shot- all smiles and completely professional- I wonder if he actually wanted to throw something!! (cue, fit, Earl)

Bottom line for me? Both of them have won and lost from shots that lucky or luckier. What should they do? Smile and thank God that they are able to do the thing they love better than just about anyone else in the world!! Then wait for pool karma payback!

And I gotta add: Did anyone hear Earl's comment to Mike Davis? Something to the effect, no wonder I am losing, thisguy misses 8 times in 1 rack and I still don't have a shot! Lovely!!

-piga

 

[mjantti]

Could someone post that lucky shot on a wei table...

Not all in this forum can watch the match on teevee (grin)

 

[Williebetmore]

Could someone post that lucky shot on a wei table...

Not all in this forum can watch the match on teevee (grin)

Miko,
I will post it later in the day once I have the time to lay it out, check back later.

 

[TATE]

Well, I don't think a pro would have taken that shot in a tournament.

In this situation, there is only on shot I would take is a safety. I would tap the 15 to the rail and slide the cueball against the backside of the 11. It's not a difficult shot and your opponent has no way out.

Chris

 

[Williebetmore]

Well, I don't think a pro would have taken that shot in a tournament.

Chris

Chris,
Up until 1 hour ago I was in total agreement with you, I was positive my opponent would play safe (I wasn't even going to sit down). This morning I put 2 stick-on dots where the corner balls of a 15 ball rack would be. I then shot 300-400 shots into the side pockets from along the line between the side pocket and these dots. I was amazed to see that these balls can be made fairly easily, even when struck with fair pace (I would say my table has tight but not unfair pockets). Even from near the short rail, these can be made, and position obtained almost anywhere. I've never even considered these shots before (I've always considered them low percentage, with no chance to play position). It will radically change my safety play in 14.1 (at least against players who know and practice this - I normally leave these shots all the time for my opponent), and it will radically change my shot selection (I've always avoided these like the plague). Of course, if my opponent only needed one ball, I might still play safe, but even in one day of practice my make percentage is about 80% - I expect that to improve. Professional players - these guys are good (and if you are CC from the IP forum, I'm including you in that group).