"Hustling": Is It Sleazy Or Clever (Or Both)?

Is "Hustling" Sleazy, Clever, or Both?

  • I Think Hustling Is Sleazy.

    Votes: 129 39.9%
  • I Think Hustling Is Clever.

    Votes: 40 12.4%
  • I Think Hustling Is Both Sleazy & Clever.

    Votes: 154 47.7%

  • Total voters
    323

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
A road player once said to me, "this is like robbery without a gun". He was referring to the ease at which he was able to take off the fair players around the city we were. The top players he stayed away from and didn't bother trying to match up with. He asked me not to ID hm and a I didn't and I felt complicit in his "robbery". I was a mark as well, he got me for 2k "stake" money to go ply his trade out in Vegas at the BCA Nationals.

Hustling is sleazy. It's also clever. In society we put value on the trickster. We admire the man who gets over on people and the system even as we revile him for stealing as well. I don't think that there isn't a one of us who at times in our lives has not felt a little satisfaction from exploiting a loophole or figuring out some workaround that wasn't entirely "legal".

Then again I also think that people are mostly honest and not trying to get over on everyone they meet. Mostly because society couldn't really function if it wasn't that way but also because individually it's way easier to be basically trustful of people you know and people you meet than to be generally distrustful. Thus by being trustworthy you don't have to be in a state of constant wariness looking for opportunities to screw someone over and watching out for being screwed over.

That said there are places where hustling is expected and a pool room is one of them. Any place where gambling is happening there are going to be people trying to get the edge. Otherwise it's just going to be called fondling money as it's passed back and forth. The goal of gambling is to be the one to walk away with the money and in a true gambling scenario the odds are 50/50 which means over time the only loser is the participants and the only winner is the house which takes a rake from the activity.

So the fact is that everyone who participates with any thought of winning actually thinks that they have the edge. And those who KNOW that they have the advantage, not just an edge, are not gambling. They are stealing BECAUSE the other side thinks that they are gambling. And every action that the one with the advantage takes to cement that advantage is what hustling is.

And those actions are sleazy. They are also clever and dangerous. Which is why just about every pool player who has gambled has secretly aspired to be a hustler. And then most of us grow out of it with the understanding that we can have both admiration and disgust at the lifestyle but know it's not in us or for to live that way. I speak for myself literally and probably for a lot of of others as well.
 

1sttbone

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
if you walk into a poolroom and ask the person in charge, I'm looking for a game its not hustling. if you are banging balls and not showing your top speed you at least gave your potential opposition a chance to observe your technique. its a good way to get action if theres any around. a room full of players does not mean there is action. if your looking for a game i like the first example about asking. if you play your cards right you might line up players wanting a shot at you.
 

BmoreMoney

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A road player once said to me, "this is like robbery without a gun". He was referring to the ease at which he was able to take off the fair players around the city we were. The top players he stayed away from and didn't bother trying to match up with. He asked me not to ID hm and a I didn't and I felt complicit in his "robbery". I was a mark as well, he got me for 2k "stake" money to go ply his trade out in Vegas at the BCA Nationals.

Hustling is sleazy. It's also clever. In society we put value on the trickster. We admire the man who gets over on people and the system even as we revile him for stealing as well. I don't think that there isn't a one of us who at times in our lives has not felt a little satisfaction from exploiting a loophole or figuring out some workaround that wasn't entirely "legal".

Then again I also think that people are mostly honest and not trying to get over on everyone they meet. Mostly because society couldn't really function if it wasn't that way but also because individually it's way easier to be basically trustful of people you know and people you meet than to be generally distrustful. Thus by being trustworthy you don't have to be in a state of constant wariness looking for opportunities to screw someone over and watching out for being screwed over.

That said there are places where hustling is expected and a pool room is one of them. Any place where gambling is happening there are going to be people trying to get the edge. Otherwise it's just going to be called fondling money as it's passed back and forth. The goal of gambling is to be the one to walk away with the money and in a true gambling scenario the odds are 50/50 which means over time the only loser is the participants and the only winner is the house which takes a rake from the activity.

So the fact is that everyone who participates with any thought of winning actually thinks that they have the edge. And those who KNOW that they have the advantage, not just an edge, are not gambling. They are stealing BECAUSE the other side thinks that they are gambling. And every action that the one with the advantage takes to cement that advantage is what hustling is.

And those actions are sleazy. They are also clever and dangerous. Which is why just about every pool player who has gambled has secretly aspired to be a hustler. And then most of us grow out of it with the understanding that we can have both admiration and disgust at the lifestyle but know it's not in us or for to live that way. I speak for myself literally and probably for a lot of of others as well.[/QUOT

Jb, decent view. We have to remember that there are different ( levels of hustling ) I've really never seen " people in the life " get too upset of losing a bad game. Then thee are the other types of hustlers. I think we all know the type of people that are betting high on dice. There was this guy here that rigged a very high stakes dice game at a local pool hall that is no longer around. He WON BIG. It was found out it was a rigged game. He was given two choices. One was he give back the money with A HEFTY INTEREST. I will not speak of the second choice. He chose the first option. So, we need to remember there is different levels of " hustling"
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
if you walk into a poolroom and ask the person in charge, I'm looking for a game its not hustling. if you are banging balls and not showing your top speed you at least gave your potential opposition a chance to observe your technique. its a good way to get action if theres any around. a room full of players does not mean there is action. if your looking for a game i like the first example about asking. if you play your cards right you might line up players wanting a shot at you.

Actually there is a form of hustling called the hoo-rah. It's where you walk in and declare that you can beat anyone in the room even if Billy Macoroni is there. You say Luther Lastyear doesn't have a chance and Efram Reyes can get the 8.

Basically you make yourself look like a complete moron already in full knowledge that no one in the room can get there with the 6.

People can't resist taking a shot and when they lose you tell them I told you that you could not win......

I have always loved that move. Not that I could ever pull it off. I am pretty sure I hold the world record for losing money at one pocket to people who have never played one pocket before.
 

PoolChump

Banned
Honest Gambling

Actually there is a form of hustling called the hoo-rah. It's where you walk in and declare that you can beat anyone in the room even if Billy Macoroni is there. You say Luther Lastyear doesn't have a chance and Efram Reyes can get the 8.

Basically you make yourself look like a complete moron already in full knowledge that no one in the room can get there with the 6.

People can't resist taking a shot and when they lose you tell them I told you that you could not win......

I have always loved that move. Not that I could ever pull it off. I am pretty sure I hold the world record for losing money at one pocket to people who have never played one pocket before.

I don't believe that would be considered hustling, because the skill level isn't hidden.
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
I don't believe that would be considered hustling, because the skill level isn't hidden.
It's a form of hustling because you're pretending to be a clueless chump who is bragging about things he can't do. And you don't need to show all your speed.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk
 

SpencerM

Registered
The basis of the concept is rooted in deceit and evil. In every sense of the word, you are trying to take advantage of, or exploit, somebody's trust. In my opinion, it's driven by greed, and exercised by those who do not see the value in earning money the "old fashion way" - through hard work for an honest day's labor.

I have read though the thread, and there is NOT one single point-of-view that makes a good case for why it's acceptable to "hustle" somebody out of their money.

It's sleazy and foolish!

IMO.
 

KissedOut

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So last night I go into local bar. It has two tables and no one is playing in either. I rack 9 ball and am just about to break when a guy asks if I wanna play him. I said sure go ahead and break. He looks at the rack, realizes it's 9 ball and asks if we can play 8 ball instead. At this point im kinda annoyed but I say sure gnats fine, just being nice. I rack the balls and the guys asks what we are playing for? I said for fun. He says no lets play for a drink. I say ok I guess so. He breaks makes one or two more and misses. I hook him he misses I run out. He buys me a beer and says do it again for $10. I say sure. I break dry, he runs 6 and misses I run out. He says you got lucky and I say yeah probably so. He asks do it again for $20. I say sure. I break make 2 miss. He runs 6 and misses. I run out. At this point the whole place is watching this "kid" (me, I'm 28 but look about 16 lol) take this guys money and he's pissed about it. We do it again for $50 and then again for $100. He says he's tapped out. He then asks me just how old are you anyways? I tell him 28 and the look on his face was priceless... He thought he was gonna rob some kid that had never played before lol. So who was in the wrong? The guy who "thought" he was stealing, or the guy who "knew" he was stealing? Lol

IMO no one was in the wrong because no one lied about anything or hid their speed. The guy was just an idiot It is not immoral to allow a fool to thrust his money on you, it is only immoral if you deceive him into doing it, IMO. And you did no such thing.
 

NitPicker

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
To Hustle

When I was growing up, I heard the word “hustle” a lot in reference to movement or action. “That kid has hustle”, or “Come on, let’s see some hustle!” I therefore equated hustling as giving or putting in more than the other person to get ahead, and hustlers as those who did exactly that. One could get out-hustled, which meant you were either out worked or out smarted. I don’t encounter many hustlers these days.

Truth Doesn’t Matter

In life, we are constantly being marketed and advertised to in an effort to make a deal or score. This is life and we all do it, and do it in all parts of our lives, not just gambling. We are always trying to leverage things to our advantages. Its human nature to try to get ones way and we learn ways to manipulate each other before we even know how to speak words. Our desire to gain advantages is exactly why marketing and advertising works so well and why there is so much money in it. To be sold, it is not a matter of being presented with truth, but rather seeing or hearing whatever it is we want to see or hear.

Pool Has No Image

A bad image isn’t what has hurt pool. That’s a huge myth. You can sell a bad image just as easy as a good image these days. The problem is pool has no image to anyone that would matter and if there is any image, it’s old and decrepit. Even the majority of its patrons and sponsors live in the past and hold on to images of bygone eras. As the world has moved, pool hasn’t moved with it but pool is not alone in this respect.

No Gamble

Hustling or hustlers isn’t what hurts gambling. This is another myth. Lack of gamble is what hurts gambling. “No one getting hurt”, is not gambling. Gambling is about taking risks, taking chances and very few hold interest in this concept anymore. People today are mostly only incented or swayed by gimmes or sure things. Today, the bandwagon is most likely filled for the front runner rather than the underdog but it wasn’t always this way.
 

BmoreMoney

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
To Hustle

When I was growing up, I heard the word “hustle” a lot in reference to movement or action. “That kid has hustle”, or “Come on, let’s see some hustle!” I therefore equated hustling as giving or putting in more than the other person to get ahead, and hustlers as those who did exactly that. One could get out-hustled, which meant you were either out worked or out smarted. I don’t encounter many hustlers these days.

Truth Doesn’t Matter

In life, we are constantly being marketed and advertised to in an effort to make a deal or score. This is life and we all do it, and do it in all parts of our lives, not just gambling. We are always trying to leverage things to our advantages. Its human nature to try to get ones way and we learn ways to manipulate each other before we even know how to speak words. Our desire to gain advantages is exactly why marketing and advertising works so well and why there is so much money in it. To be sold, it is not a matter of being presented with truth, but rather seeing or hearing whatever it is we want to see or hear.

Pool Has No Image

A bad image isn’t what has hurt pool. That’s a huge myth. You can sell a bad image just as easy as a good image these days. The problem is pool has no image to anyone that would matter and if there is any image, it’s old and decrepit. Even the majority of its patrons and sponsors live in the past and hold on to images of bygone eras. As the world has moved, pool hasn’t moved with it but pool is not alone in this respect.

No Gamble

Hustling or hustlers isn’t what hurts gambling. This is another myth. Lack of gamble is what hurts gambling. “No one getting hurt”, is not gambling. Gambling is about taking risks, taking chances and very few hold interest in this concept anymore. People today are mostly only incented or swayed by gimmes or sure things. Today, the bandwagon is most likely filled for the front runner rather than the underdog but it wasn’t always this way.

Excellent post Nitpicker , and all very true.
 

9andout

Gunnin' for a 2 pack!!
Gold Member
Silver Member
Actually there is a form of hustling called the hoo-rah. It's where you walk in and declare that you can beat anyone in the room even if Billy Macoroni is there. You say Luther Lastyear doesn't have a chance and Efram Reyes can get the 8.

Basically you make yourself look like a complete moron already in full knowledge that no one in the room can get there with the 6.

People can't resist taking a shot and when they lose you tell them I told you that you could not win......

I have always loved that move. Not that I could ever pull it off. I am pretty sure I hold the world record for losing money at one pocket to people who have never played one pocket before.

Cornbread said he did that in his book.
 

Kickin' Chicken

Kick Shot Afficionado
Silver Member
I'll bump this up for more comments since pt just posted a link to it in another thread.

more opinions please. :smile:
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Gold Member
Silver Member
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KissedOut

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member

pt109

WO double hemlock
Gold Member
Silver Member
a) the attribution to Lincoln has been debunked. Google is your friend.

b) and the use of hustle is a completely different sense of the word than the way it is used in this thread. The meaning of the quote is not about fraudulent dealing, it is more in line with 'the early bird gets the worm.'

http://www.sbcmurphy.com/my-5-favorite-motivational-quotes/

But nice try at hustling us.

Ah, but the original meaning of hustle still lives on in ‘poolhustler’...
...it denotes a guy who became a good player...he doesn’t just knock ‘em around.
...many words tend to devolve...but the sense of the true meaning is still there.

...and don’t be thinking you’re the first to discover that Honest Abe gets misrepresented...

8E856BEA-BC51-4E5F-9761-36E8C9091CBC.jpeg
 

deanoc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I am seeing that hustling is a low rent sleazy activity

even when the deception doesn't contain any specific statements that are contrary to fact

Now that I see that it is deception by implication,
and sleazy

I think I will quit pool,all of my cues are for sale except what I need to play at home
on my new Mark Gregory Centennial

I wish to sell my tables as well

If anyone wants to buy the best table ever made or any of my equipment

please call

I have been suspecting that pool was sleazy but now I am convinced

Forget all of my stories that glamorized pool hustling

thank you for the clear explanations

My super groovy cases are also for sale

I will sell everything I have for less than retail and that is a promise
and also is typical of my previous selling way


Thank you Creed Do for your comments

Dean
 
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