i filmed myself shooting. I Dont like what I see

WobblyStroke

Well-known member
i tried the "holding the cue at the balance point" thing that thorsten does, and it doesnt really seem to work reliably, at least for me. Sometimes the cue goes to the left slightly, but it really just seems to stay facing straight ahead:(. I am now seeking some instruction from a good player. I have been connected to a really good straight pool player who is willing to help me. I just need help with a pre shot routine, grip, stance, and stroke.
Yes, when loose, it is easy for little twists and turns to creep in. I like to set my grip and bring my arm up to stroking position rather than using a dead hang like TH. This puts the cue in a stable position relative to your body. Then build the base around that arm/body relationship. There are obv little tricks to how you lock it in but you can figure those out on your own (or buy the info off an instructor near you).
So you can't be unconvinced it is your PSR/stroke holding you back eh? Maybe share the vid you took or take one with a mask on if identity on the internet is the issue. You would have to be in a really weak league to be a top3 player and have a poor stroke is all I'm saying. A teacher that works with what you've got and polishes it is likely going to work out better than one that does a total overhaul. To use a golf analogy, Jim Flick was a great teacher who prided himself on all his students having different swings because he taught them how to figure out how they want to swing. Knudson, on the other hand, was a great player himself but his approach to teaching was that if you didn't swing exactly like he did, you were doing it all wrong. If you get a Knudson type teacher, pay the one session and move on would be my advice.
 

skiergd011013

Well-known member
Yes, when loose, it is easy for little twists and turns to creep in. I like to set my grip and bring my arm up to stroking position rather than using a dead hang like TH. This puts the cue in a stable position relative to your body. Then build the base around that arm/body relationship. There are obv little tricks to how you lock it in but you can figure those out on your own (or buy the info off an instructor near you).
So you can't be unconvinced it is your PSR/stroke holding you back eh? Maybe share the vid you took or take one with a mask on if identity on the internet is the issue. You would have to be in a really weak league to be a top3 player and have a poor stroke is all I'm saying. A teacher that works with what you've got and polishes it is likely going to work out better than one that does a total overhaul. To use a golf analogy, Jim Flick was a great teacher who prided himself on all his students having different swings because he taught them how to figure out how they want to swing. Knudson, on the other hand, was a great player himself but his approach to teaching was that if you didn't swing exactly like he did, you were doing it all wrong. If you get a Knudson type teacher, pay the one session and move on would be my advice.
i like that method. I will try picking my cue up, lifting it and getting in stroke position.
 

couldnthinkof01

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
the same happens with me. When I am just practicing, with no pressure, my focus isnt there. Definitely more sloppy. I can ask someone to film me playing a match. When it is not my turn at the table, they can just aim the phone down so the other player isnt being filmed.
Just ask the opponent before the match. Some will care, most won't.
 

WobblyStroke

Well-known member
i like that method. I will try picking my cue up, lifting it and getting in stroke position.
just be careful that you get your arm near the position it is in relative to your body while down rather than crank your shoulder super tight by trying to get it in position relative to the table while standing lol. I can see how what I wrote can be interpretted as either one. Just one of those things that takes a second to show or a paragraph or two to explain clearly. Good luck....and that whole 'show vs say' thing is exactly why a good local in person instructor is your best bet if you're serious about improving.
 

WobblyStroke

Well-known member
Lucky you, this just came up in another thread. Basically goes into depth on what TH is saying and his walking around with the cue is pretty much what I do tho I have a move I lock mine in with. His is more about finding your right alignment based on how yours hangs. These are rare gems we digging up today boys n girls.

 

maha

from way back when
Silver Member
what you learn is that from enough practice you walk to the shot and UN-consciously line up and plop your stick down exactly where you need to be. that is how it works when you get good. you may do a little movement of the tip or cue sometimes to fine tune or adjust your english.

all those other things proposed will only make you miss when you dont do them exactly right as they are not your natural theme in the shot.
 

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
I finally decided to prop my phone up, and film myself shooting. I dont like what I see. My stroke is wobbly and looks terrible. I had no idea how bad it was. I feel good shooting, and do get good results. I have been playing for 18 years, and am the 2nd/3rd best player on my league out of 40 plus people, and there are some very decent players on it. I just feel sort of stalled out in my game, like I am not improving at all. I came across this video of thorsten and mike massey explaining how to do a simple pre shot routine to get yourself properly aligned for the shot. I have never seen/been taught anything like this. I am pretty certain I am not properly positioned when getting down on the shot and stroking. One thing I know is that the cue is firmly planted against my side while stroking. Not sure if this is good or bad. If you havent filmed yourself shooting, try it. Even if you think you have a great stroke and or play pretty good, you may be surprised at what you see. I am going to make it a point to use this method when approaching every shot, and see how it goes.
Post your PSR and shotmaking here, we'll help and comment.
 

skiergd011013

Well-known member
I had a lesson with a decent player and he focused on my stance being my major issue. He said i should keep my right leg straight (right handed). Honestly i have never studied my stance or what a pool stance should be. I have always just done what is comfortable. I have been doing research and learned that my right foot should be directly under my right hand when down on a shot. I have been making sure i do this. I have never done this before, but I finally did the water bottle test, where i placed a plastic water bottle on the table and stroked the cue into it. I can stroke the cue deep into the bottle without touching anything very easily. Isnt this an indication of a good stroke? I plan on doing another lesson with a professional instructor located 2 hours away. The first lesson was good. It got me thinking and researching, but i think i can find an even stronger instructor.
 

WilliamK

Registered
I can ask someone to film me playing a match.
Why not use your own phone and record the whole match? Then you can see things like how your shot selection may have cost you the game.
Someone suggested earlier to wear a mask, but i hate masks, and id be stared at relentlessly if i wore one in a bar.
Women do it all the time.

Seriously, one needs to get over the vanity thing. Being in IT it was nothing for me to live stream finals and when it came to coaching, a video can show the player so much more. But yes, there were also the knockers who claimed that self video was a wank.

But a video will show you a lot more than your pouch and bald spots, especially if it covers the whole match, because you get to see your approach to the table, the time that you spend considering your play (or lack of it), your shot selection and your technique. Even if you don't find fault, it can remind you of what you need to do next time.
 
Last edited:

DynoDan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I had a lesson with a decent player and he focused on my stance being my major issue. He said i should keep my right leg straight (right handed). Honestly i have never studied my stance or what a pool stance should be. I have always just done what is comfortable. I have been doing research and learned that my right foot should be directly under my right hand when down on a shot. I have been making sure i do this. I have never done this before, but I finally did the water bottle test, where i placed a plastic water bottle on the table and stroked the cue into it. I can stroke the cue deep into the bottle without touching anything very easily. Isnt this an indication of a good stroke? I plan on doing another lesson with a professional instructor located 2 hours away. The first lesson was good. It got me thinking and researching, but i think i can find an even stronger instructor.
Much like shooting a pistol, your feet should be planted in such a way as to maximize stability (back to front/side to side), but not unnaturally/uncomfortably so. When learning to play as a kid, I never gave ‘stance’ a second thought. As a result, I often find myself down on a shot in an unstable position, and have to get back up and reset.
 

couldnthinkof01

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member

boyraks

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Lucky you, this just came up in another thread. Basically goes into depth on what TH is saying and his walking around with the cue is pretty much what I do tho I have a move I lock mine in with. His is more about finding your right alignment based on how yours hangs. These are rare gems we digging up today boys n girls.

I wonder what he snooker players would comment on this video.
BK is well respected teacher though a little bit spicy and strong on his presentations.
I know pool and snooker are on different planes but on the same sport category.
They are more accurate in potting and playing position IMHO.
 

WobblyStroke

Well-known member
I wonder what he snooker players would comment on this video.
BK is well respected teacher though a little bit spicy and strong on his presentations.
I know pool and snooker are on different planes but on the same sport category.
They are more accurate in potting and playing position IMHO.
snooker players fall into the category of the 90% that twist into shots that BK mentions rather than hang for alignment like BK and Thorsten. I'm sure they'd say they do that for a reason and see it as superior.
I don't think snooker players play better position at all. esp if they have to create the position with no naturals there.
 

Protractor

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Video is a modern day gift in athletics. I used video of my self for a year and was coached by Anthony Beeler who watched every video and helped me clean up my game. After playing regularly for over 25 years, video helped my game tremendously. In 1 year I progressed more than all the other years of books, drills, videos and practice combined!
I used my phone to record a local player from the rear who was having issues with pocketing. He said it used to be a no-brainer and now he couldn't pocket long shots. When I showed him the video he was horrified to see that he was now swinging his cue hand to the side, and not by a small amount.

When I was fixing my stroke I set up a vidcam on a tripod behind me in the same way. Instead of recording it (too much delay between act and replay) I ran HDMI over to a TV set up such that I could watch the live video of what was happening on the TV, which is set up at table level so that I can view it while down on the shot. I made adjustments to what I was doing so that it looked good and my test shot making (long straight-in) was solid.

Most importantly, I noted how my stroke felt compared to what it felt like before. Since I can't ordinarily watch from behind, making sure that it feels right when I am playing a match has made all the difference in my stroke.
 

WobblyStroke

Well-known member
How is this so?
All I meant was that, in snooker, if you have to go off the center axis on the CB and spin the ball around multiple rails, most will just play safe instead unless the frame is secured and they're in exhibition mode. Pool players have to hit these shots on the regular and are more adept at them.
As far as being able to play pinpoint position, look at 1pocket or str8pool players and you will see that pool players are equally capable of pinpoint position play. Just because TV games like 9ball and 10b are generally less demanding with position, allowing players to play into zones instead of landing the CB on a postage stamp, doesn't mean they couldn't land it on a stamp if they needed to. A top player can pretty much land on a playing card anywhere on the table.

I'm not saying snooker players don't play good position, just that pool players can match them. Plus pool players have to hit more creative shots where they manufacture angles that are seemingly not there...this doesn't exist in snooker bc the demands of the pot are so high, these types of shots are just passed up for safeties.
 

WilliamK

Registered
Can't really compare the two when the snooker table uses smaller balls and smaller pockets on a larger playing field. There is no margin for error. Whereas the pool table has less balls thus fewer obstructions and the pockets are cut like funnels.

Also, the nap of the cloth on snooker tables changes how and when we can use left/right hand side. One particular shot that I play on tables that I am familiar with is using the nap to pot a ball that was otherwise blocked by another ball.... get the pace right and the object ball can curve by the width of a ball. Yes, we also play side to alter the object balls path... not just to curve the cue ball but also to throw the object ball that was otherwise not on.

From my experience of pool, why would anyone play safe if they can see the ball on... a clearance is always on.
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
From my experience of pool, why would anyone play safe if they can see the ball on... a clearance is always on.
I would love to see players mow their way through entire sets but that's not how poolonomics works. Say you brute force past the dangers, you can still go broke as your comfortable action disappears.
 
Top