In regards to Bonus Ball

[JimL]

If BB were sucessful it would help all promoters

Of course there is JAM. You have the old guard vs. the new guard so to speak. You have people who have been promoting events for a long time and a new kid comes on the block who potentially threatens their current situation. Nine out of ten times when this happens people react hostile to protect what they have. It is a natural human reaction. Then you have the people who are followers and just go along with the common theme that is posted on these forums. It becomes almost like propaganda to a certain degree. My thought has always been that if your product is strong enough you will always succeed (referring to the promoters and the events that they put on) no matter what happens. However every once in awhile something new comes along and it might change the whole game. Even if it doesn't so what. At least someone took a rip at it and then everything will go back to like it was. What's the difference?

I have to disagree with you here. If BB were actually successful It
would strengthen the brand of all billiards including the games that the old guard ,such as myself, want to see thrive.
I think when you combine the statements made by ppl associated with BB that the existing pool enthusiasts are not the target group along with the deliberate scheduling
conflicts with established tournaments you have an enevitable conflict.

Add on top of that all the questions about sustainability and the arrogant attitude of the ppl at BB and you have so e big concerns.

Then just for added flavor they can't even show a much hyped live event to the pions that they don't want for clientele

I think most of us are just worried that these new guns are gonna shoot american proffesional billiards in the foot while they try to figure out how to use they're new BFG.

Jim

 

[John Novak]

It's very rare that a production goes smooth the very first time it's put on especially when it's live. Not for nothing it's FREE. And I'm sure it will continue to be free until they get it right. Why complain when it's FREE. Let them work out the glitches and then give them a chance.

Even ESPN3 had some major lag issues when they streamed Mosconi Cup Live this past year.....These people complaining should have a coke and a smile and STFU quote from eddie murphy

 

[flyvirginiaguy]

It would be admission of failure to ask for outside help now.
Just sit back and watch this freak show.

A wise man can fail in many things. But what sets them apart, is they let not pride stand in their way. He finds a solution or seeks out people who know the craft.

I don't like everything about it, I prefer 9 ball, the pockets are to tight, bad table choice, but these are my preferences.

I hope they get things right. But I also hope they work with the other tournaments on timing of events, as it is best for the whole sport, and not just bonus ball and or the other tournaments.

I do hope streaming is only a start to them growing into tv time though, as streaming will never make it a prime time thing...

 

[Black-Balled]

My opinion..(That may not mean much)..



If you are gonna take a stand as the "Public Relations Guy" just make your statement and move on.Getting in a pissing contest with other members will do nothing but further remove the consumers interest in your product...Good luck..

Not sure how I feel about that.

Nathan (yes, you too, Lenny) and AZB have a deep history that has been highly beneficial to both sides. He (yes, you too, Lenny) has a huge group of friends and supporters here that not only wishes success for him (yes, you too, Lenny)but will give him (yes, you too, Lenny)more leeway re: support than we would for the kleenex manufacturer.

Bring it on, Bonus Ball. Show us what you see.

 

[Hungarian]

test........

 

[tommyceilings]

AGREED!!!!!

Nathan, you're coming off as pompous, and to say were not the target crowd is polar opposite. We are the players, we are the ones who will go back to our rooms and say this game is good, please purchase ball sets, we are the ones who will pay or not pay for the streams.

You're turning a lot of people off Nathan, some humility would work well here.

In addition, how about hiring a PR guy to answer posts. I've never met a successful company who had their web, production, video guy also go to forums to post. Stay removed from that part, get a new person to answer questions on the forums.

well said sir. I completely agree with your statements. He needs to really reword and review what he posts. I would love to see it catch on; I personally like the game but hearing from someone that its not their concern and just blaming it on someone else doesn't help the whole matter at hand one bit.

 

[denzy]

I would like to thank Bonus Ball for the great success they had for themselves and me also. My friend had a get together at his house with about 8 people wanting to watch Bonus Ball. Then of course we all know what happened the first night and the second night. Both nights we couldnt watch pool so we ended up playing poker. I made a nice little skillet and next weekend we are going to looking to watch Bonus Ball. If no pool game to watch more poker. Thanks Bonus Ball

 

[Nostroke]

AGREED!!!!!

Nathan, you're coming off as pompous, and to say were not the target crowd is polar opposite. We are the players, we are the ones who will go back to our rooms and say this game is good, please purchase ball sets, we are the ones who will pay or not pay for the streams.

You're turning a lot of people off Nathan, some humility would work well here.

In addition, how about hiring a PR guy to answer posts. I've never met a successful company who had their web, production, video guy also go to forums to post. Stay removed from that part, get a new person to answer questions on the forums.

We do not have to be the target audience-The BB crowd apparently believes they can sell it in Asia, on TV to a new audience or in some other way that doesn't involve hard core pool fans. I have serious doubts they can find $$ in their highly confidential business plan but they seem to be shooting way too high for us to be the target..

 

[sjharr]

I've been too busy with damage control to check the forums this weekend, but I'm assuming things here are pretty bitter and negative. I just wanted to quickly make a statement or two.

For one, I run the production company. I'm not a network guy, nor is that my job, nor is it that of anyone else on my crew. Those services are offered by a dedicated company. My crew runs a massive production setup here, and push a stream to the servers. What happens past that point is not my concern (although Im totally to blame for the missing audio on the first 10 minutes on day 1 however.

Both the website hosting and video delivery network crashed under the high traffic. They said it wouldn't but clearly it did. It's unfortunate, but it happens. Although today the host switched us over to a tier 3 VPS and promised it would handle the load (plus I personally added some additional horsepower to the server in hopes of saving the day), it still got crushed within minutes. We ended up just streaming a low quality feed to ustream at the lowest bitrate possible, which clearly sucked ass.

Unfortunate? Absolutely. But catastrophic? Far from it.

What really mattered is what happened here at the venue. The game is amazing, the production was awesome, and the venue looks incredible. Best of all, the players are more into this than anything ive ever seen. The investors are pumped, the network people that came through are all over it, and the casino reps have schedule further meetings.

At the end of the day, a stream is just a stream. It’s unfortunate that viewers were disappointed and unable to watch anything short of mediocrity, but in the big picture, the core of what we aimed for was a success.

We have the matches in 1080p, recorded in flawless quality, and will be releasing them soon. All other matches this week will be recorded, but not streamed (until the network people solve the problem). Week 2 will be free to everyone (assuming we get the system fixed in time), and anyone who purchased will get their subscription extended 2 additional weeks.

For those of you who want to remain negative, feel free. It doesn't bother us one bit, nor do we blame you. You only see what goes online, and that has obviously been a disaster. And for those who enjoyed what little they saw of the game, then thanks for standing by us, and get ready for an incredible season.

A shit stream or not, Bonus Ball is here to stay.

PS. Read more about it here. http://www.wpbltv.com/news/wpbl-debut-match/14

1. Take responsibility.
2. Apologize to your consumers.

Steve H.

 

[Majic]

you should ask the right questions the next time you hire somebody with such a critical element in the system.

 

[PETROBOY]

If us spectators aren't the target audience, who is? If Asia is the prime target why isnt this being put together in China?

 

[JCIN]

Nathan, I would give different advice than this. What you have attempted to do, mainly communicate, is important. We all know that shit happens but we want to be kept informed as best you can. We are all adult enough to separate hyperbole from fact. Adding the free streams was a great step in terms of PR. We all want to see what a PPV at its best is going to be like in order to make our buy decision. Parts of what we were able to see were very encouraging.

I, along with a small group of similar pool junkie friends, used to watch each TAR match like a religion. We would organize watching parties. Then there was a small, very small but annoying, problem and when we tried to get an answer the arrogance shown indicative of the comment/advice “Just stop posting. Fix your product. Let it speak for you” put an end to our TAR parties for awhile (until Mark Griffin showed that the customer actually is important).

The statement posted to the WPBL facebook under the signature of ‘The Entire WPBL Staff’ is helpful and greatly appreciated. Your postings here are also helpful. Hopefully, the match in progress will be available soon or the upcoming one at 7:00 p.m. will find the problem fixed. (let us know so we can hang in there waiting or do something else) Communication with the customer/fan is very important and I thank you for it and encourage the WPBL to keep it up through all avenues available to them.

Long as you want to make this a TAR vs BB thing thats cool. How about we at least get some facts first. What was the problem you experienced with TAR and what was the resolution if any. I have over the years fired a few customers simply because for various reasons some people are impossible to satisfy. I have a feeling this may be one of these cases but I am certainly willing to listen to what you have to say.

I try to go above and beyond for TAR customers. Sometimes its simply not possible and sometimes I screw up. I have no problem owning that. In a thread with simply bullshit numbers like 10,000 viewers and hundreds of thousands of views and visits in it though I would really like some details presented about the situation so that I can address it. One thing I find interesting is that Mark Griffin does not and never has had anything to do with customer service on PPV streams. He couldnt even if he wanted to as he has no knowledge of the system or how things work.

 

[Nostroke]

If us spectators aren't the target audience, who is? If Asia is the prime target why isnt this being put together in China?

who knows? we do know they make some real 'odd 'decisions and their business plan is secret..

 

[JB Cases]

Where is the notion that Asia is the target market coming from?

I doubt this. I think that the target market is mainstream Americans.

 

[JB Cases]

who knows? we do know they make some real 'odd 'decisions and their business plan is secret..

Well fwiw this could describe lots of companies, mine included.

 

[JCIN]

We do not have to be the target audience-The BB crowd apparently believes they can sell it in Asia, on TV to a new audience or in some other way that doesn't involve hard core pool fans. I have serious doubts they can find $$ in their highly confidential business plan but they seem to be shooting way too high for us to be the target..

I dont know where they plan to sell it but I agree with Nathan in that the people who watch pool streams dont mean anything to the survival of BB. Where we differ is that I prefer to have people on the inside of the tent pissing out instead of the other way around. Pool stream viewers are not going to save it but better to make ambassadors out of them than piss them off.

They have to get millions a year to cover the nut. No one in pool comes close to that with video products. Where do they get it? Its confidential I guess. If they swing it they will look like rockstars though and maybe they can do it.

 

[Poolshootindon]

Who said they hate Nathan?

I'm as non-biased about this anyone so I can tell you what I'm seeing from the sidelines
First off I don't really know Nathan but he has got to be proud of his accomplishments and anyone else would be to. I also have mad respect for JCIN and his accomplishments..... He too should be very proud.
What I don't get is why people think that his post are offending in anyway. As I think he has handled all the critics comments with grace.(I couldn't do it) I know my reading comprehension is not of the caliber of some but I don't understand some of the responses I've heard even from people you wouldn't expect it to be coming from. I more understand JCINs view because of past history with Nathan though I know nothing about it. Unless these other posters have some other beef with Nathan I don't understand the bashing of Nathan and don't fool yourself... It's so obvious my limited reading comprehension couldn't miss it. Are they following a trend? Why hate on Nathan? Crucifying him when he tries to explain things is not right either. Good damn thing your not in a glasses house....

I am getting sick and tired of people using the word "hate" so loosely.

Just like people who say that if you disagree with President Obama your a "racist".

How about if we just say "I disagree with what your saying".

Its great to have disagreements. Usually things get better as the pot boils.

Can someone show me where someone said " I hate Nathan", because I have not seen it.

What I mean is anyone who has posted a thread or reply where they stated they hate Nathan.

Don

 

[watchez]

If anyone wants to believe what they are saying today and that the PPV / Streaming doesn't matter to them --- to me it sounds like a guy that got dumped by his girlfriend and then saying she doesn't matter to him anymore anyways.

Why is the WPBL website covered with watch streaming this, pay 9.95 a week for that, sign up for a yearly subscription, watch live. Oh and their menu bar - it is HOME and guess what is the next choice - LIVE STREAMING.

Yep continue to believe it doesn't matter. Continue to believe that two days ago we were told he laid 600 cables for the live streaming interaction and now it doesn't matter.

I'd give BB some support if one truth was told. I'm waiting.

 

[Luxury]

Thorsten "The Hitman" Hohman just ran 60 straight points for the outlaws!

Apparently they need to tighten up the pockets.

Such a tragedy I couldn't see it or sweat it. I would have been going nuts.

 

[DoubleA]

I dont know where they plan to sell it but I agree with Nathan in that the people who watch pool streams dont mean anything to the survival of BB. Where we differ is that I prefer to have people on the inside of the tent pissing out instead of the other way around. Pool stream viewers are not going to save it but better to make ambassadors out of them than piss them off.

They have to get millions a year to cover the nut. No one in pool comes close to that with video products. Where do they get it? Its confidential I guess. If they swing it they will look like rockstars though and maybe they can do it.

Maybe it is like farm subsidies, and they are counting on the government to pay huge sums for them not to produce it next year.