IPT and OUR sport's future

Banker Burt

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I must get this off my chest!

IPT & non-IPT cardholder facts -

1) All of the players, including myself that submitted a resume before the deadline, received an e-mail from the IPT stating that they were sorry that we were not accepted but we would be placed on an alternate list. If spots became available we may still have a chance to participate and/or receive our playing card.

2) We now know that some players did not accept their cards and that spots were made available. We also know that the IPT is holding qualifiers fror these open spots along with qualifiers for 50 spots in each of the first two IPT events and also the 50 spots for the 2007 tour.

3) We also know that these qualifiers are high-dollar entries with no financial return (other than the few that will get a card), meaning large amounts of money (qualifying entry fees) is going to the IPT profit sharing structure for all IPT card holders.

Don't get me wrong, I am happy for the majority of players who were selected but I am saddened to know dozens of players are collectively footing a huge investment for only a few players that will actually get a card.

The flip side of those that got cards and those that did not, is to know that a 12 year old child has his IPT card for 2006 which is worth a minimum of 13,000K plus profit sharing.

We have all been hustled before but now we are talking BIG business. There are many ways to look at the IPT and its direction, but something in my gut says that this does not seem right.

Trudeau can do what he wants, it is his money. Personally, though, I think he has opened a huge can of worms for our sport. IMO it will be much more interesting to watch the multitude of players that support existing tours (with much less added money) than watching the IPT players.

Frankly, with the exception of all the champions rightfully owning their IPT card, we wil probably see better competition at the existing events.
 

iacas

Drill Sergeant
Silver Member
Banker Burt said:
We have all been hustled before but now we are talking BIG business. There are many ways to look at the IPT and its direction, but something in my gut says that this does not seem right.[/quote

What's not right about it? You enter a tournament, you agree to the terms, you pay the money, and they follow the rules. If you get your card - a pretty nice guaranteed payout of $13K (and up), that's what you're playing for. If you don't get your card, well, tough.

PGA Tour Q-School costs around $5k to enter. The winner earns a small bit of money, but there's no guarantee they'll earn anything on the Tour. And those who don't qualify are just out their $5k (plus travel expenses, etc.).
 

pooltchr

Prof. Billiard Instructor
Silver Member
I think the question would be, if players who were not originally accepted were told they would be considered as alternates for any openings, why are they holding qualifiers, rather than going to their list of alternates?
Steve
 

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
It's difficult not to feel sympathetic toward anyone told they were an alternate and that alternates would fill any IPT roster spots that became available, as this has not proven the case.

Nonetheless, the many rumblings that followed the selection of the original 150 made it clear to the IPT that they had handled the process poorly, and that it had left some of the game's true superstars that wished to participate waiting in the wings, most notably 2004 World Champion and 2005 US Open Champion Alex Pagulayan. I believe that the IPT, by abandoning its original view that alternates would fill any spots that became available, acted to improve its roster in a way that better serves the sport and its fans. I think the IPT acted appropriately.

I do not believe this was done to raise a few extra dollars. I buy into the IPT argument that to keep the size of the qualifiers in check, a large entry fee was appropriate. If their intent was to squeeze every possible dollar from those who played the qualifiers, KT wouldn't be handing out all these free entries. For example, a few of those who has high finishes at one qualifier were given free entry into all remaining qualifiers. Others were given a chance to play a practice match with Sigel and those that prevailed won free entries into the qualifiers.

I recall when my boss at a major bank resigned in 1988. I had been told by the division manager that I had been viewed as his successor, but was passed over for the promotion when somebody from outside the company was brought on. It wasn't long before I fully agreed that the person hired was far more qualified to do the job than me. My expectations hadn't been met, for I had been denied an opportunity I'd been led to believe would be mine, but my disappointment faded quickly when I reflected on the fact that the opportunity had been given to somebody more deserving. I am of the opinion that those on the alternate list should take a similar view. Once they take a close look at what kind of players are making the IPT roster through the qualifiers, they will understand that these players are more deserving than the original alternates.

Just one man's take on things.
 
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vagabond

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Banker Burt said:
I must get this off my chest!

We have all been hustled before but now we are talking BIG business. There are many ways to look at the IPT and its direction, but something in my gut says that this does not seem right.

I am very disapointed because:
A)Scott smith was not invited as Tournament Directer.who can be better than Scott!!!
B)Top pro players like Ronie wiseman,George Beedlove,Reed Pierce,Ismael paez( Morro),Alex P, Tang Ho were not included.
C)Tickets will not be sold at the gate.Well ,if IPT has it`s own rules,I have my own rules and I do NOT care to be a spectator.
D) these qualifiers for qualifiers for qualifiers are getting silly
E)Not every one that attends these tournaments are californians and fans of organic food.Alternatives be made available.
Vagabond:cool:
 

Blackjack

Illuminati Blacksmack
Silver Member
Banker Burt said:
We have all been hustled before but now we are talking BIG business. There are many ways to look at the IPT and its direction, but something in my gut says that this does not seem right.

Trudeau can do what he wants, it is his money. Personally, though, I think he has opened a huge can of worms for our sport. IMO it will be much more interesting to watch the multitude of players that support existing tours (with much less added money) than watching the IPT players.

Frankly, with the exception of all the champions rightfully owning their IPT card, we wil probably see better competition at the existing events.

Burt,
The best thing to do is to support the existing tours. There are many regional tours around the country (Men & Ladies) that need our support. I like the way the WPBA system is set up with qualifiers, and I enjoy seeing the competition that all of the regional tours provide. Eydie and Bob Romano work their tails off to provide great tournaments for players at a reasonable price - great handicapping (if you can get by Eydie's player interrogations - I love watching those) - the same can be said of The Viking Tour (Mike Janis) - JPNEWT (Barbara),KBP She's everywhere -(Kay Higgins), SE Pechaur (Tommy Kennedy), Florida Men's Pro Tour (John DiToro), AWBT, Joss NE Tour - support them as much as you can.

Personally I would never pay a $2000 entry fee no matter what. $13K is not enough to finance a full year on any tour, but this tour has its first event in July, so its really not a bad deal for 6 months.

What I find disappointing is that players are able to come up with these $2000 entries - in just a few qualifiers the IPT has collected more money than some of the smaller tours have awarded in earnings in the past few years. IMO, these large entry fees would be better spent assisting some of these regional tours that are constantly struggling. If I understood KT correctly, the entry fees for the qualifiers are used to pay the players salaries, if I am wrong about that someone can correct me. That is how I understood it.

Hopefully someday you will make into the IPT, or perhaps you will be able to make some money on the regional tours. Perhaps you can get down here to Florida to play some 10 ball or I will see you at the UPA events. Good luck to you.
 

Banker Burt

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thanks Blackjack for sharing your sentiments which are consistant with mine. I agree about expense ratio to play on the tour for 2006. I also agree that supporting the existing tours will continue a great legacy of those players who have, at great expense with little return held up the intgrity of our sport's competition.

For my entire life I have respected all top players, because in comparison to other sports that make a profession from their game make (IMO) pools the nobleist of athletes.

To this end, I will continue to play in what tournaments are affordable with the exception of those that are down right fun. It is also great to play in all tournaments because of the chance to hang out with many, many friends i have made through the years.

It is possible that the IPT has done us all a favor by seperating players from our events. I say this with the suggestion to TD's across the land to think of the IPT players and their business venture with KT as a profession. If they do, for the rest of us that will continue to play virtually from shear passion, maybe restricting IPT players from (now) our events would help bring bigger fields and give us all a better chance to take our position as the backbone of the sport at large.

This may be a reach, but I for one have supported my playing by working a construction company over the past 32 years. I am not alone with hundreds of other players in the same situation. I have also sponsored a few players with no advertising or financial return intended.

I guess this would make us somehow amateurs, but we all know better. To the Dave Hemmah, Tang Ho, Corey Harper, Dan Madina, Ismael Paez, Dave Matlock, George Michaels, oh the list goes on and on, maybe the IPT will at some point embrace the existing tours and its players as qualifying events for the tour. Like the WPBA does for pool and the Nationwide & Hooter tours do in golf.

Well see.

One last thing, it was mentioned to play on the UPA and possibily run into to each other there (I would enjoy meeting you). But, I have not played recognized pro tournaments since the ancient PBTA events. I passed on the Camel because of the cigarette contraversy and frankly I passed on the UPA because once again it was set-up like the PBTA with only certain players running the organization as opposed to a player union.

IMO - (even though the PBTA was a bust) it was much better at thinking about ALL the players of the tour, where we now have situations like the 14.1 event where it a partial invitational/qualifier. This is much like what the IPT has done.
 
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Colin Colenso

<-- My Kids
Silver Member
Blackjack said:
If I understood KT correctly, the entry fees for the qualifiers are used to pay the players salaries, if I am wrong about that someone can correct me. That is how I understood it.
Just 10% of the fees for the qualifiers will go to current IPT members. If a particular IPT member is refered by a qualifier entrant, then all 10% goes to that member. If no member is refered, the 10% is shared among all the members.

I estimate that this commission will average out to an additional 2-3k per member for the year.
 

mnorwood

Moon
Silver Member
At first I was a critic of the IPT.

But after hearing kt's timeline for how the tour is going to run I am now a supporter of the IPT. Here is my point by point opinion of the cardholding policy.

1. The tour is just getting started! At the beginning there isn't any plan that is going to please everyone.

2. The players selected to be charter members deserve to be there. Eventually everyone will have to either play well during the season or requalify.

3. The selection process for the remaining slots are in my mind fair. Alex P. and Jason Miller were left off but they made the investment to prove their worth.

4. If you do not have the money or the game to play the qualifiers than don't play. I for one do not have either.

5. In other sports potential participants put up much more money than 2000$ with absolutely no return.

6. Making the entry fee high weeds out people that shouldn't be there in the first place.

7. If you can't come up with the cash to play and no one else believes in you enough to support you than you need to find some way to prove yourself.
 
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