Is Schmidt's and charlie 626 Legit

Cameron Smith

is kind of hungry...
Silver Member
Do you know if the field each year is growing, shrinking, or staying the same?

It may not be a World (global) championship, but it seems to be a World (of straight pool) championship.

I had the sense that straight pool was becoming more popular, just by the fact that i see people playing it now and again, or talking about it.

14.1 seems to be caught in a bind - not enough players because there's not enough money in it, and not enough money it because there's not enough players.
I wouldn’t call it a world championship in any respect since too many of the worlds elite 14.1 specialists are missing each year. The European and American 14.1 championships are the premiere events in straight pool currently. I would have argued in favour of Charlie’s event back in 2011 when there was still a strong field present. But it shrinks each year and I don’t think the lack of attendance is due to popularity of 14.1 (or lack of) but rather the tournament itself. Meanwhile, the American 14.1 Championship appears to grow each year, 2020 not withstanding.
 

gerryf

Well-known member
The pool player infrastructure falls on the WPA. They do have American 14.1 on the calendar, the flipside to that problem is , there aren't enough events through the year to make practicing 14.1 worth money.
In October is the International Open in Virginia. It has tournaments in 9-ball, 10-ball, and One-pocket. It looks like only the 9-ball is WPA sanctioned.

The American 14.1 Championship seems to typically have 40-some players, and that's been dominated by Europeans now, since John Schmidt was the last American to win it back in 2012 I believe.

The Dragon World 14.1 is also dominated by Europeans.

I'm not sure what it would take to make it bigger. Maybe that pool-loving billionaire everyone keeps looking for. Someone should ask Elon Musk if he's interested.
 

CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my heros.
Silver Member
Straight Pool is toughest game, as if you are playing strong player, they could leave you in chair for long time.

Then shoot safety, and you have nothing to shoot at.
 

AtLarge

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
... As for Dragon Promotions, they've hung on for 15 years, and without WPA sanctioning they've now become the championship by default. ...
Benefiting from scheduling next to the US Open, the American Straight Pool Championship has had stronger fields than the Dragon event for the past several years. And this year it will immediately precede the International Open, so it probably will again do better than Dragon (if that event is held).
 

justnum

Principal Investigator of Magic Trick Shots
Silver Member
In chess there are many rules to by play.

Playing based on a time could prove an interesting variation to help speed up 14.1 play.

Also playing by time would provide more pool accessories to sell.

The main concept for a Timed 14.1 match would be each player gets 1 hour of time. At the end of that hour, whoever has the most points wins.

The sport is the same, it just forces players to think faster. Some pool pros can, some pool pros can't, itd be another distinction of excellence.

If time ends for either player, the second measurement is who had the higher high run in that match.

Everyone has ideas, just share them.
 

gerryf

Well-known member
Benefiting from scheduling next to the US Open, the American Straight Pool Championship has had stronger fields than the Dragon event for the past several years. And this year it will immediately precede the International Open, so it probably will again do better than Dragon (if that event is held).
Yeah, that's been a problem in snooker as well. Win a tournament in England, fly to China for the next one, then fly back to England for the next one.

If there's enough tournaments close to each other in time and distance, maybe some of the Asian players will attend. I think the American Straight Pool this year only has Lee Van Corteza from that half of the world.
 

AtLarge

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
... I think the American Straight Pool this year only has Lee Van Corteza from that half of the world.
Their "expected" list also shows Orcollo. (And we can give half credit for Pagulayan.) That list shows 39 players so far, with just about all of them deserving of a place in a world-class event. By contrast, about half of the players in the Dragon events in recent years did not belong in such an event.
 

justnum

Principal Investigator of Magic Trick Shots
Silver Member
Their "expected" list also shows Orcollo. (And we can give half credit for Pagulayan.) That list shows 39 players so far, with just about all of them deserving of a place in a world-class event. By contrast, about half of the players in the Dragon events in recent years did not belong in such an event.

When Asians compete they have no problems attending in large groups.

Jasmin Ouschan was penalized for participating in a Dragon event.

When organizations penalize players for attendance, its called a deterrent.
 

gerryf

Well-known member
Their "expected" list also shows Orcollo. (And we can give half credit for Pagulayan.) That list shows 39 players so far, with just about all of them deserving of a place in a world-class event. By contrast, about half of the players in the Dragon events in recent years did not belong in such an event.
Yeah, the same thing happens in snooker, where some of the top players can't or won't attend, and the field is weaker than in previous years.

Once Elon gets involved in supporting pool, hopefully that will change.

In most tournaments though, there seems to be about 8 or 10 players who are favorites to win it, and it's an upset when one of the 'lesser' players wins it. I see that a lot in local and regional tournaments as well.

Until pool gets bigger, the quality of most tournaments comes down to who the top 8 or 10 players are. Rarely, you get something like the US Open in 2019 where the field was so potent it was a tremendous event.

The last few major tournaments have all had an asterisk next to them with Chang, Cheng, Ko, Orcollo, and all those other top players not competing.

Dragon may not be a 'world' championship, but it is a championship. The World Pool Masters wasn't a 'world' championship either, just 'part-of-the-world'. I don't think the name matters that much.
 
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Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I’m glad you jumped in, since you, too, are of the subject matter.
I'm not embarrassed to return any salvo that you feel froggy about.
Mirror, mirror, on the wall,
“Who’s the fairest pocket billiards player, of them all?”
“Rādär, is” said the mirror.
Smoke on that one awhile.
I might even leave this one a while longer. Radar
Tiny cockalorum.

Juxtaposition personifed.

I can barely take the awesomeness. The only way it would get better is it cooooker boooooker cowboy gets up in this shit.
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
In chess there are many rules to by play.

Playing based on a time could prove an interesting variation to help speed up 14.1 play.

Also playing by time would provide more pool accessories to sell.

The main concept for a Timed 14.1 match would be each player gets 1 hour of time. At the end of that hour, whoever has the most points wins.

The sport is the same, it just forces players to think faster. Some pool pros can, some pool pros can't, itd be another distinction of excellence.

If time ends for either player, the second measurement is who had the higher high run in that match.

Everyone has ideas, just share them.
Talk is cheap and redundant.

Who's gonna pay for it?
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Do you know if the field each year is growing, shrinking, or staying the same?

It may not be a World (global) championship, but it seems to be a World (of straight pool) championship.

I had the sense that straight pool was becoming more popular, just by the fact that i see people playing it now and again, or talking about it.

14.1 seems to be caught in a bind - not enough players because there's not enough money in it, and not enough money it because there's not enough players.


This is all from 10-15 years ago -- it was never any kind of a legit "World 14.1 Championship."

Stu said it best: "In 14.1, there is no real world championship, with the Dragon 14.1, the upcoming US Open 14.1 and the European 14.1 championships all being prestigious titles."

A prestigious title but no world championship.

Lou Figueroa

Shannon Daulton is reigning World Banks Champion, having beaten fellow American John Brumback in last year's final. Skylar is also capable of winning a world championship at banks. Certainly, the Derby City banks is the de facto World Championship. in this discipline, and Americans win this one all the time.

In one pocket, guys like Frost, Bergman, Van Boening, Deuel and a few others can win. Certainly, the Derby City 1-pocket is the de facto World Championship. in this discipline and Americans often win this.

In 9-ball, outside of this year's runnerup SVB, who will likely win one, the only player with a shot over the next few years is Dechaine. He's had a third place finish in the Derby City 9-ball, a fourth place finish in the US Open 9-ball and tied for ninth in this year's world 9-ball championship. None of the other Americans, Bergman and Woodward included, have shown an ability to go very deep in the three toughest 9-ball events of the year. Until they post a top five in one of these elite events, I won't be taking their chances of winning a world championship in 9-ball very seriously. That said, they are young improving players with big upsides, but to me they are more in with a chance if a ten year span is considered.

In 14.1, there is no real world championship, with the Dragon 14.1, the upcoming US Open 14.1 and the European 14.1 championships all being prestigious titles.

Lou Figueroa
 

gerryf

Well-known member
Stu said it best: "In 14.1, there is no real world championship, with the Dragon 14.1, the upcoming US Open 14.1 and the European 14.1 championships all being prestigious titles."

A prestigious title but no world championship.

Lou Figueroa
Yeah, that's fair.

There's some Youtube activity with players from Taiwan, China, and Japan playing 14.1. Here's hoping that will lead to some big tournaments in Asia.
 

justnum

Principal Investigator of Magic Trick Shots
Silver Member
How's that working out for you thus far, pro pool?
JS posted on facebook he will not participate with his free entry into any events this year.

Sounds like he makes more from giving lessons. Thats a career choice I relate to highly.
 
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