Is Schmidt's and charlie 626 Legit

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
He's rehashed it a dozen times here along with JS supposedly tossing a cube of chalk in his general direction.

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Sure, and the non-payment in Norfolk and subsequent failures by the UPA are pretty well documented.
 

gerryf

Well-known member
I don't expect Danny will rehash a major moment in his pool life, but I believe his issue with Charlie Williams is pretty damn justified.

Charlie, as head of the UPA, made promises to players about the benefits derived from membership in the organization; specifically, guaranteed tourney payment.

Danny finished in the money at a UPA sanctioned even and didn't get paid. The UPA neither secured the payout from the promoter pre event, nor did it pay him (2k?) the prize he earned, nor did it successfully lobby to get him paid in the longer run.

In fact, the UPA's position was that Danny needed to make his membership payment again to be considered worthy of further inclusion in the association.

Danny might be bullheaded, but the fact is that he was betrayed directly by the association he belonged to, which failed him (and the sport) miserably.
I hadn't heard about this. When was that? Who was the promoter that backed out? Was the issue with Charlie Williams that he didn't go to bat for Harriman, or was Charlie Williams involved in managing the event?
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I hadn't heard about this. When was that? Who was the promoter that backed out? Was the issue with Charlie Williams that he didn't go to bat for Harriman, or was Charlie Williams involved in managing the event?
It was a berhman Jr event and the UPA failed to provide what is likely the most crucial and basic service promised to the players: that they would get paid.

It gets better: after uncountable failed promises to make it right, iirc the promoter finally told Danny to pound sand...and enough time had passed that any potential court action was no longer an option.
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
 

gerryf

Well-known member
It was a berhman Jr event and the UPA failed to provide what is likely the most crucial and basic service promised to the players: that they would get paid.

It gets better: after uncountable failed promises to make it right, iirc the promoter finally told Danny to pound sand...and enough time had passed that any potential court action was no longer an option.
A quick search turned this up....

"The 2000s also saw Behrman’s reputation tarnished by several prize fund shortfalls and an eight-month stint in jail, the result of hosting illegal casino nights at his home and failure to pay back taxes on his poolroom. To his credit, Behrman took his punishment without excuses and eventually righted his prize money issues. In recent years, the promoter agreed to allow a players’ representative to oversee prize fund collection and distribution, and in 2015 turned over the collection and disbursement of prize monies to Accu-Stats Video Productions President Pat Fleming.

In fact, Behrman announced his retirement as U.S. Open promoter following the successful 2015 tournament, turning over the hands-on running of the event to Fleming. He had also announced his intentions to sell Q Master, with 72 tables the largest billiard room in the country. Former champions expressed their condolences on social media. “The billiard community lost a great asset, but heaven gained a special man,” wrote 1999 U.S. Open champion Johnny Archer. “Even though we had our differences, Mr. Behrman was a good friend of mine. I have not missed a U.S. Open since 1985. It won’t be the same without Mr. U.S. Open.” “RIP, my friend,” wrote four-time champion Shane Van Boening. “This guy had a lot of heart for professional pool players. I’m sad that he’s gone.” “So sad,” wrote two-time champion Darren Appleton. “We had our ups and downs, but he was good to me when I was champion. He phoned me virtually every day for two years. Barry gave his heart and soul to the U.S. Open. Incredible achievement.

“Will always remember the traditional car ride in his sports car from the venue to the poolroom for the after party!”

Prior to his death, the Berhmans finalized arrangements with Fleming to assume full control of the U.S. Open 9-Ball Championships."


 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A quick search turned this up....

"The 2000s also saw Behrman’s reputation tarnished by several prize fund shortfalls and an eight-month stint in jail, the result of hosting illegal casino nights at his home and failure to pay back taxes on his poolroom. To his credit, Behrman took his punishment without excuses and eventually righted his prize money issues. In recent years, the promoter agreed to allow a players’ representative to oversee prize fund collection and distribution, and in 2015 turned over the collection and disbursement of prize monies to Accu-Stats Video Productions President Pat Fleming.

In fact, Behrman announced his retirement as U.S. Open promoter following the successful 2015 tournament, turning over the hands-on running of the event to Fleming. He had also announced his intentions to sell Q Master, with 72 tables the largest billiard room in the country. Former champions expressed their condolences on social media. “The billiard community lost a great asset, but heaven gained a special man,” wrote 1999 U.S. Open champion Johnny Archer. “Even though we had our differences, Mr. Behrman was a good friend of mine. I have not missed a U.S. Open since 1985. It won’t be the same without Mr. U.S. Open.” “RIP, my friend,” wrote four-time champion Shane Van Boening. “This guy had a lot of heart for professional pool players. I’m sad that he’s gone.” “So sad,” wrote two-time champion Darren Appleton. “We had our ups and downs, but he was good to me when I was champion. He phoned me virtually every day for two years. Barry gave his heart and soul to the U.S. Open. Incredible achievement.

“Will always remember the traditional car ride in his sports car from the venue to the poolroom for the after party!”

Prior to his death, the Berhmans finalized arrangements with Fleming to assume full control of the U.S. Open 9-Ball Championships."
The event that stiffed Danny was by Brady and not Barry.

Barry basically said it wasn't his even and he wasn't bailing Brady out.
 

Dan Harriman

One of the best in 14.1
Silver Member
His claim was never going to be accepted by you no matter what,
This is not accurate - now yer tryin to call me a liar - bad move table mech. So continue to spit yer venom - if u so wish - I have a special stick for squirmy snakes like u - as I am begin to no u better now. Let me double clear 4 u - Do Not insinuate that I am fibbing - when I say that I would accept this elusive charlie williams/poor schmidt 626 claim as a new record - if he and his coward production teem' would prove what they are promoting to the Public in unedited disc form - it would be genuine - I would purchase a copy - after I heard it past the graph test. If u don't believe it then u just don't know me at all - yer better off squirmin around under a table - than debating 14.1 adjudication wit me - re mamba' what I say pool table mukeanik.
 
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gerryf

Well-known member
It was a berhman Jr event and the UPA failed to provide what is likely the most crucial and basic service promised to the players: that they would get paid.

It gets better: after uncountable failed promises to make it right, iirc the promoter finally told Danny to pound sand...and enough time had passed that any potential court action was no longer an option.
JAM posted a good summary in that old 2005 thread that Danny resurrected in 2012 to point out he was still owed some money.

"It was the Mid-Atlantic 9-Ball Championship, which occurred exactly one week after the Music City Open and the Derby City Classic. Also, it was held on Super Bowl weekend. To add insult to injury, there was a snow blizzard. It was held January 2003 at the then-Holiday Inn, which was right next door to where the U.S. Open 9-Ball Championship used to be held (Chesapeake Beach Conference Center).

Brady Behrman, Barry Behrman's son, who I have respect for and is a friend of mine, promoted this tournament sans his father. It was his first attempt at hosting a big pool tournament of this magnitude.

Due to the snow blizzard, the spectator seats were filled with mostly locals, pool players in the event, pool players' friends. Local prostitutes came during the late evening hours during the last match of each night. They were very friendly with the tournament competitors.

There were vendors there out in the hallway, but due to what I think may have been Brady's lack of experience, he didn't collect the vendor booth fees beforehand. The vendors were all b*tching and moaning about how they did not sell one thing, and they did not pay Brady the booth fees, monies he was counting on for the tournament payouts.

The very last night of the event, me and mine were sitting in the bar of the Holiday Inn -- where else? 😠 -- and I saw Brady and his wife on the other side of the bar. There was nobody else in the joint. Everybody split and left to go home, I guess. I saw Brady's wife begin to cry. She actually was sobbing and ran to the ladies' room. Brady followed her. I didn't know what had happened at that time, and I was concerned, as I do like Brady.

Well, as it turned out, Brady didn't have the money to pay some of the payouts, especially the larger payouts, at the conclusion of the event. The players who won and got in the money wanted to get paid. I think he tried to pay out as much as he could, like the lower payouts. Though he is Barry Behrman's son, some felt that Barry should have stepped up to the plate and covered the payout monies, but Barry's thought -- and rightfully so -- was that it was not his tournament and he shouldn't be held accountable. Therein began the beginning of the storm between Danny Harriman and the Behrmans.

I believe Blackjack did try to intervene, speaking to Brady and Danny, hoping to get Danny paid, but I don't think the entire debt was satisfied.
"


From other comments, some of the players and some of the fans wanted to make UPA responsible for fixing it. I don't know a lot about it, but the comments from the UPA people seemed to be trying to show that they had a very limited role here. Maybe like the WPA's role in the US Open ?
 

Dan Harriman

One of the best in 14.1
Silver Member
edited for time constraints
u may find yer con is a bit of a strain, I hear u like to compete at 14.1 - the window is open - let me know if ur ever feelin froggy. Also purchasing a pool room and purchasing an unedited video are similar, the potential buyer of pool room - would want to see evidence or the books and watch the action live - before purchasing the room. Just as I would rather see unedited video - rather than accept the seller or pusher's word that the tape is genuine (solid analogy). u just cannot answer honestly - imagine that - yer pal's with J.S. lol. So again the pool room owner (who's lookin to sell 4 reasons unknown) could be cooking the books, just as hollywood director of the 626 show would say the only reason were speeding up the footage - is for time purposes. I would rather make sure there is an honest return potential - before making any type of investment. We can leave it be if u want, I really no think us arguing about why they choose to hide the footage - will produce the elusive - unedited video - that remains in question. U can be sure that the new 14.1 challenge - the footage will be for sale - oh and it will be unedited - the way records are meant to be broken - with definitive evidence.
 
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gerryf

Well-known member
His claim was never going to be accepted by you no matter what, let's get that clear. Second, just because John don't want to sell the unedited version of the recording, that's NOT proof that it don't exist, as you claim. Buying a bar is NOT the same thing as trying to discredit someone like John just because he refuses to sell YOU a copy of the unedited original copy! And think about this for a minute, in order to make an edited copy, you MUST have the unedited original with which to make it from!! And yet still, the witness affidavits still exist, which is the SAME credibility Willie Mosconi provided, so it that was good enough for HIM, why is it NOT good enough for John Schmidt, REGUARDLESS of the video recording????
I agree. Danny's issue seems to be anger that Schmidt was the one to break the record, and has some personal grievances towards Schmidt. Danny has posted no end of malicious and provably false allegations.

It seems to come down to Schmidt et. al, and many others don't really care what Danny thinks, and aren't going to waste any time responding to his nonsensical claims.
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
...to show that they had a very limited role here. Maybe like the WPA's role in the US Open ?
Inaccurate. (Part of) The UPA fulfilling its obligations to it's members was requiring prize funds to be guaranteed via escrow, funded by those holding the (UPA) sanctioned events.

Not only did the UPA not obtain its required monies prior to the event, it also did not make it's members whole and pursue the event holder.

The UPA failed to provide its appropriate fiduciary duty to its members...at least twice. The possibility that it colluded - directly or indirectly- with behrman Jr to defraud at least one member is not 0%.
 

Dan Harriman

One of the best in 14.1
Silver Member
I really like Tiger Cues new sales pitch very much, 'Performance Does Not Have To Be Complicated' - I could not agree more. At the new 14.1 Challenge - Once a top player officially surpasses Mosconi's True World Record of 526 - y'all will see a successful performance - IS NOT COMPLICATED i.e. unedited video of the accomplishment - for sale - to Open Public.
 
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easy-e

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
u may find yer con is a bit of a strain, I hear u like to compete at 14.1 - the window is open - let me know if ur ever feelin froggy. Also purchasing a pool room and purchasing an unedited video are similar, the potential buyer of pool room - would want to see evidence or the books and watch the action live - before purchasing the room. *edited out most of the BS*
HAHAHA, so you want to see the evidence (video) before purchasing the video? You're friggin hilarious!
 

logical

apart of their 'semi public'
Silver Member
I really like Tiger Cues new sales pitch very much, 'Performance Does Not Have To Be Complicated' - I could not agree more. At the new 14.1 Challenge - Once a top player officially surpasses Mosconi's True World Record of 526 - y'all will see a successful performance - IS NOT COMPLICATED i.e. unedited video of the accomplishment - for sale - to Open Public.
What does second place in the world pay these days?

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logical

apart of their 'semi public'
Silver Member
I don’t know.
But, I think you are there now just behind fu** u Joe Biden.
Maybe if you took the time to write something related and coherent you wouldn't need to edit and delete everything you post.

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gerryf

Well-known member
Inaccurate. (Part of) The UPA fulfilling its obligations to it's members was requiring prize funds to be guaranteed via escrow, funded by those holding the (UPA) sanctioned events.

Not only did the UPA not obtain its required monies prior to the event, it also did not make it's members whole and pursue the event holder.

The UPA failed to provide its appropriate fiduciary duty to its members...at least twice. The possibility that it colluded - directly or indirectly- with behrman Jr to defraud at least one member is not 0%.
It sounds like the UPA had some looser definition of "securing the funds", and after this mess, changed it to mean "hold the funds", and added "starting now".

As for "collusion", I think there would have to be actual point-to-it evidence, not just allegations. Particularly where it sounds like some of the major players in this mess never could agree on a statement of facts.
 

logical

apart of their 'semi public'
Silver Member
Posters like you/others forced that action.
Y’all excoriate all opposition, trying to force others to accept your torts/retorts as gospel.
I choose to leave it like y’all are talking with yourselves.
Keyboard on man.
It's cowardly, plain and simple.
How exactly are we "forcing"?...it's just a discussion forum Nancy.

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