It's not just us sandbagging!

Jimmorrison

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
People have always cheated. I guess it's easier to detect now, with modern tech and computer analysis. I think in most sports that have substantial prices, it's fair to assume that most of the best are cheating in some way or other. Just take cycling as an example. Most if not ALL the best at one time were cheating, and that went on for decades. Mention any sport with major prices, and you'll find cheating en masse. Football, baseball, soccer...How many people do you think have been stuffing their fish with something in those fishing competitions over the years, or sneaking pre caught fish into their boats? Or hid fish under the water somewhere, getting passed fish from other boats out of the money or whatever?

In sports like pool or snooker, we have the opposite kind of cheating where people lose on purpose. The only reason for that, is that nobody has come up with a reliable way to boost performance, other than maybe some drugs. Still not substantial enough to guarantee a win. I no longer bet on snooker. I had quite some money on a well known, but not absolute top player, and he laid down in such a disgusting way I almost smashed my tv. It's of course impossible to prove definitively, but for someone with knowledge it's plain to see. Just like Magnus Carlsen could see Hans Niemans chess cheating before the analysts could, though I'm no Magnus Carlsen: https://news.yahoo.com/chess-grandm...wFC-POMif2uek4cSynfSPWbwk9aBZiJ8z5IpUFWe_JUAB You can see the same thing going on in pool as well, and people have admitted to me that they do it on the Eurotour. Came right out and said it, with no shame what so ever. It's not like I can do anything about it anyway, they'd just deny it. Pool and snooker have lost their luster to me. I prefer playing to watching now, and for the most part I don't even do that anymore. I sometimes wonder to myself how many of the matches I watched and enjoyed throughout the years were even real? I guess it's one of the reasons I like Earl Strickland a lot more than many others on here do. I feel fairly certain that he's always trying to win. That's worth a lot to me.
Don’t say that to Greg Lemond
 

Quesports

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Don’t say that to Greg Lemond
When I think of Jan Ulrich trying to hold the wheel of Lance (douchebag) Armstrong and not being able to I hate Lance even more.. Jan was clean Lance and his whole team were all doping; it had to be unbelievable for Jan when that ahole was finally busted..

One of the biggest scandals in sports history in my opinion..

Greg was always clean to my knowledge, the thing that ended his career was the hunting accident...
 

KissedOut

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
When I think of Jan Ulrich trying to hold the wheel of Lance (douchebag) Armstrong and not being able to I hate Lance even more.. Jan was clean Lance and his whole team were all doping; it had to be unbelievable for Jan when that ahole was finally busted..

One of the biggest scandals in sports history in my opinion..

Greg was always clean to my knowledge, the thing that ended his career was the hunting accident...
You do realize, I hope, that Ullrich admitted to, and was punished for, doping.
 

Dead Money

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Not every one does, so maybe some person learned something.🤫


That is true-

Before I got involved in taking care of my elderly parents I had never heard the term either and I was into my 40's. As an aside having to sign that for them as a caregiver was gut wrenching even though the circumstances made it clear I needed to do it.- ** Btw- if the shit hits the fan you CAN opt out of it last minute.
 

Dead Money

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
You do realize, I hope, that Ullrich admitted to, and was punished for, doping.
Yes.


I have followed cycling for years. Plus I am in the Austin area too.

At that time the entire Pro Peloton was riding dirty. Quite a few riders ended up very ill or dead from the side effects of doping- and blood doping. I will not justify his behavior..just sharing info-context. What Lance and many others did for years was a few steps ahead of the current for the time testing regimes. In that sense it was highly unfair to go back at him with new ways of testing near and after the end of his racing career. There were others around him who helped keep the "party"going too.

The reason he is so vilified in addition to being a liar and a cheat is because he won so much and he was an absolute prick to many people around him. He also did things that ruined many of the ones near him that dared to say or do anything that challenged him. The ESPN 30 for 30 on him is very good- one of the better things I have seen that put it all out there in a good understandable way.

** As an aside it is highly screwed up that many good riders and others around Lance became famous and somewhat rich because of their associations with him during his best years.- Teammates- Friends - etc. Then turned on him when it suited them. That would make me a little crazy too.
 
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Quesports

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You do realize, I hope, that Ullrich admitted to, and was punished for, doping.
No I did not.. Christ sakes WTF is wrong with people. Thank you for the info..I guess I have to check everything before even commenting.. Or not bother... What a fucked up world!
 

CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my hero's
Silver Member
That is true-

Before I got involved in taking care of my elderly parents I had never heard the term either and I was into my 40's. As an aside having to sign that for them as a caregiver was gut wrenching even though the circumstances made it clear I needed to do it.- ** Btw- if the shit hits the fan you CAN opt out of it last minute.


Sad thing is thing like DNR. Might be known by many people, but lay people do not know most abbravations.

Pool has abbreviations most people do not know, if you said SHORT STOP, most people who think baseball.
 

Dead Money

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
No I did not.. Christ sakes WTF is wrong with people. Thank you for the info..I guess I have to check everything before even commenting.. Or not bother... What a fucked up world!
It is ok. You just did not know.

No one is posting with the intent of attacking you. Lance gets a lot of attention..others did not.

Ulrich was a great rider during his time. Top level cycling is brutally hard .juiced or not. For me having raced some I have mountains of respect for what the riders of that time did...ridin' dirty or not.
 

Straightpool_99

I see dead balls
Silver Member
Don’t say that to Greg Lemond
He was well aware of the massive cheating going on, even during his days. There is a chance he himself was clean, I wouldn't say that it's guaranteed...
Yes.


I have followed cycling for years. Plus I am in the Austin area too.

At that time the entire Pro Peloton was riding dirty. Quite a few riders ended up very ill or dead from the side effects of doping- and blood doping. I will not justify his behavior..just sharing info-context. What Lance and many others did for years was a few steps ahead of the current for the time testing regimes. In that sense it was highly unfair to go back at him with new ways of testing near and after the end of his racing career. There were others around him who helped keep the "party"going too.

The reason he is so vilified in addition to being a liar and a cheat is because he won so much and he was an absolute prick to many people around him. He also did things that ruined many of the ones near him that dared to say or do anything that challenged him. The ESPN 30 for 30 on him is very good- one of the better things I have seen that put it all out there in a good understandable way.

** As an aside it is highly screwed up that many good riders and others around Lance became famous and somewhat rich because of their associations with him during his best years.- Teammates- Friends - etc. Then turned on him when it suited them. That would make me a little crazy too.
Is there any reason at all to believe that people are clean now? IMO they're all still cheating, maybe even to a greater extent, with hidden motors and performance enhancing drugs and all sorts.
 

Dead Money

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
He was well aware of the massive cheating going on, even during his days. There is a chance he himself was clean, I wouldn't say that it's guaranteed...

Is there any reason at all to believe that people are clean now? IMO they're all still cheating, maybe even to a greater extent, with hidden motors and performance enhancing drugs and all sorts.
1) Agreed

2) I do not think so. There are always people in and around sports looking for an edge...the line between "ok bueno and no go." One thing they all benefit greatly from now that the old champs did not have was advances in technology/training and nutrition.

It was not long ago heart rate monitors, power meters and other things did not exist. This makes it possible to really dig into your potential that was not available before. I was a broke bike bum when things like heart rate monitors where first becoming available-1980's..early 1990's This was huge for me once I finally got one. I could be very certain on days when easy riding was the plan I would not exceed those limits which screws up recovery...and on hard days I learned to push myself way harder than I ever thought I could..even training alone. It also makes it fantastic for fitness buffs/serious hobby riders/racers with limited time to be very efficient with their time.

I piddle on an Old Mountain Bike for fun now and then...no way I will ever get serious enough to compete again..even in age appropriate categories. I put enough into it then to know it often really sucked to train and compete it was so hard..even on a lower level. F*** that!
 

Quesports

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It is ok. You just did not know.

No one is posting with the intent of attacking you. Lance gets a lot of attention..others did not.

Ulrich was a great rider during his time. Top level cycling is brutally hard .juiced or not. For me having raced some I have mountains of respect for what the riders of that time did...ridin' dirty or not.
I bought my first top of the line road bike in 79 a Pinarello. In 1980 I moved to Palo Alto which was a hotbed of roa
It is ok. You just did not know.

No one is posting with the intent of attacking you. Lance gets a lot of attention..others did not.

Ulrich was a great rider during his time. Top level cycling is brutally hard .juiced or not. For me having raced some I have mountains of respect for what the riders of that time did...ridin' dirty or not.
In 79 I bought my first high end road bike a Pinarello. In 80 I moved to Palo Alto which at the time was the place to be cycling. The Wheelsmith on Alma was probably the top bike shop anywhere. Then Bicycle Outfitter opened in Los Altos and it all began. I was apporoched as were a lot of guys to turn pro. All you had to do was pay a 50 dollar fee to join pro cycling in America. Got to ride with many famous people, Connie Carpenter, Eric Heiden and many others.. Drugs in cycling were unheard of at that time.. Then Tom Simpson collapsed and died of a heart attack caused by methamphetamine. His death was the first time I recall of doping in cycling.

Now of course it has all changed. I will add my love of cycling saved my life. I was involved in drug abuse when I was a kid but cycling and the desire to get better at it saved my life.

When I see what drugs have done and still do to people every day it makes me shudder inside....
 

Jimmorrison

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If you wanted to ride dirty, on Greg’s team, you were out. If you wanted to ride clean, on Lance’s team, you were out. Well established facts
 

Poolhall60561

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Cheating in Muskie fishing was big back in the late 1940’s and 50’s

“Louie Spray’s Muskie Reinstated: … August. 6, 1992, Art Lawton’s world record muskie, originally thought to have been 69 pounds, 15 ounces and 64 1/2 inches long, was discovered to have been falsified (greatly exaggerated in size) and was officially disqualified jointly by both the National Freshwater Fishing Hall of Fame and the IGFA.”


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