John Morra vs Tyler Styer race to 30 livestream

BassMasterK

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Based on their Fargorate probabilities, even odds were Styer having to get 25 to Morra's 30 so Tyler performed better than statistically expected. I watched for 2 of the last 3 hours with a break in the middle. The play was very slow, it was a little tough to watch. What was interesting was towards the end, Tyler finally got to the table, I think it was 26/28 Morra in the lead, and Tyler picked his pace up by quite a bit. He was shooting great and looked more comfortable to me. Got two racks to even it up but he broke dry at 28/28 and that was the end of his last run.
 

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The length of the recording between the lag and the final ball was about 9 hours 25½ minutes. That would be an average of nearly 9.8 minutes per game, a really slow pace of play. The prior post indicates that they had no lengthy timeouts.
It may not be ideal for the watchers, But if it’s just a heads up 2 player challenge match, I see no need for a shot clock, unless both players agree to wanting and having one.

It’s not like a slow paced match is going to hold up the progress of an entire tournament draw.
 

JolietJames

Boot Party Coordinator
Silver Member
It was a great, top-level match imo. The pace was to be expected.
These two should run it back asap considering how even it was and the last rack being determined by fate.
Morra beared down a ton on those last shots.
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I watched large portions of the match. For the most part, they played quickly, but every game or two there seemed to be one shot that one of the players (and both did this multiple times) would hem and haw and measure and rethink and get up and get down and get up and walk around, etc, etc. The last rack was particularly brutal where there were two shots that happened near the end (Styer on the 8 and Morra on the 10) for really long periods of time. The announcers joked that this match wasn't using a shot clock, but rather a shot calendar.

I think a 30-sec shot clock is often too restrictive at times, but open-ended can be painful as well. There needs to be a happy medium.

Congrats to Morra! Well-fought and well-deserved victory.

I usually use this analogy; do you want some random person peeking at your work site and telling you to work faster because they think you are not chopping wood or building a computer or changing a tire fast enough for their liking? Or do you want to do your job at the pace that results in the best outcome for you and the work you are doing?
 

Gatz

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It may not be ideal for the watchers, But if it’s just a heads up 2 player challenge match, I see no need for a shot clock, unless both players agree to wanting and having one.

It’s not like a slow paced match is going to hold up the progress of an entire tournament draw.


This! Also, if I was backing either player for the cash they can take as much time as they feel necessary to be 100% confident and sure on the shot. I'm not concerned about the viewing audience being entertained. Only concern is winning and getting the cash. I'm sure John/Tyler feel the same way.
 

Rocket354

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I usually use this analogy; do you want some random person peeking at your work site and telling you to work faster because they think you are not chopping wood or building a computer or changing a tire fast enough for their liking? Or do you want to do your job at the pace that results in the best outcome for you and the work you are doing?
While I can understand the comparison, I think the analogy fails in this instance because once a broadcast is going on then any pool player's (or any professional athlete's) job is to entertain their audience. In a private money match, sure anything goes. But once a match is being streamed, and there's revenue because of that stream, and sponsors trying to attract eyeballs, then the player's job is no longer one of "win the match" but one of "give a show people want to watch." That's why all these major tournaments have shot clocks now. And why people are complaining about pace in these smaller streams. If the audience doesn't get what they want then they will stop watching, with all the financial ramifications of that.

That said, 30 seconds with one extension can be a little too abrupt at times. How about a 30 second shot clock with a 2 min per rack time bank that can be dipped into automatically and what's left carries over? Pace can still be snappy, while not rushing key moments that makes the outcome of some matches seem somewhat arbitrary.

People can come up with whatever rules suits their own match. But the ones that will attract and retain viewers, thereby being more successful, will have some rules to keep games moving along.
 

Brookeland Bill

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Styer has to measure every shot. Every shot. Then if he plays a safety he has to check it out. There is nothing to be learned about slow play other than the useless tedium. Up and down at the table. Back and forth. Rub the cloth. Rub the rails. Walk around the table. He doesn’t concede simple straight-in 10 balls. Morro does. Stroke your cue in the air over and over. He disappears off camera. You do this every day of the week. Are you sharking me? More tics and nervous moves than a guy on death row.
 
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SEB

Member
How bad is Tyler??

He had this set in the bag and choked it away once again.

What would be the score if he didn’t have a top 3 10-ball break in the world?

He’d be like a 690 FargoRate if it weren’t for his break and determination.

His shot selection is the absolute worst for a guy at his level. Him and Grabe have terrible shot selection…but Grabe shoots the lights out so it doesn’t bite him as much as Tyler.

I hope Tyler can break through. He really needs to work on just getting OUT! He’s got all the rest…now just clear tables dude!
 

westcoast

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I guess Morra- even playing left handed- has an argument for being better than at least 2 of the MC players. He has beat Oscar and Tyler in action recently.
 

couldnthinkof01

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
While I can understand the comparison, I think the analogy fails in this instance because once a broadcast is going on then any pool player's (or any professional athlete's) job is to entertain their audience. In a private money match, sure anything goes. But once a match is being streamed, and there's revenue because of that stream, and sponsors trying to attract eyeballs, then the player's job is no longer one of "win the match" but one of "give a show people want to watch." That's why all these major tournaments have shot clocks now. And why people are complaining about pace in these smaller streams. If the audience doesn't get what they want then they will stop watching, with all the financial ramifications of that.

That said, 30 seconds with one extension can be a little too abrupt at times. How about a 30 second shot clock with a 2 min per rack time bank that can be dipped into automatically and what's left carries over? Pace can still be snappy, while not rushing key moments that makes the outcome of some matches seem somewhat arbitrary.

People can come up with whatever rules suits their own match. But the ones that will attract and retain viewers, thereby being more successful, will have some rules to keep games moving along.
Fading awful commentary is way harder than the pace of play to me. Just because some idiots grab a camera to stream an action match, doesn't mean the players need to cater to the audience. That's what tournaments are for.
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
Well I was one of the guys saying make Mosconi Cup N.Am vs EUR so Morra and Alex can play instead of Styer-types and seniors. This tight race making me reconsider what kind of upgrade that would be if any (for Morra, not Alex....Alex is king).
Bear in mind the money match was 10ball and not 9ball. Also Styer has one of the best 10b breaks on the planet and Johnny struggled with his on this day.

If it weren't for Styer's breaking ability (in this game's specific format) this set wouldn't have been so close, imo. I half expected a blood bath w/ Styer's corpse twitching on the floor.
 

skogstokig

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
How bad is Tyler??

He had this set in the bag and choked it away once again.

What would be the score if he didn’t have a top 3 10-ball break in the world?

He’d be like a 690 FargoRate if it weren’t for his break and determination.

His shot selection is the absolute worst for a guy at his level. Him and Grabe have terrible shot selection…but Grabe shoots the lights out so it doesn’t bite him as much as Tyler.

I hope Tyler can break through. He really needs to work on just getting OUT! He’s got all the rest…now just clear tables dude!

he actually played well at the mosconi, even compared to the euros (click team stats):


he made a crucial error in his last match, followed by a brain fart four-railer that really had me asking whether his mind's in the right place. i make that shot fairly often for fun, but in a proper match the thin outside safety is always the play.

i think he gets to much flak considering his overall performance. but it's true that he has a fargo 840 break and a much lesser fargo play.
 

cookie man

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Bear in mind the money match was 10ball and not 9ball. Also Styer has one of the best 10b breaks on the planet and Johnny struggled with his on this day.

If it weren't for Styer's breaking ability (in this game's specific format) this set wouldn't have been so close, imo. I half expected a blood bath w/ Styer's corpse twitching on the floor.
But Tyler has won the other two times they played. Why was he the underdog here?
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
But Tyler has won the other two times they played. Why was he the underdog here?
John:
-46th on the Fargo world rankings at 790 (>15.7k games)
-19th on 2022 AZB moneyleader board w/ >$83k. Includes cashing 5th or higher in 8, 9, 10 ball, 1pkt, 14.1 and banks
-Has placed higher than 7th 20 times in 31 reported events**. Including a win in a 10ball event (where he beat Styer 9-3), and 2nd 5 times, 3rd 4 times.
-Has waaay more gambling street cred than Styer could possibly dream of...lol

Tyler:
-Doesn't make the world top 100 w/ a Fargo of 762 (>8.7k games)
-46th on 2022 AZB money leader board w/ ~$31k, (includes the 15k for being invited to Mosconi)
-**Hasn't placed higher than 7th in anything reported for 2022 (13 events, excluding Mosconi w/ 2nd)
-Is only a topic of conversation when he gets picked over someone else for the USA Mosconi team

Need more...?
 

cookie man

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
John:
-46th on the Fargo world rankings at 790 (>15.7k games)
-19th on 2022 AZB moneyleader board w/ >$83k. Includes cashing 5th or higher in 8, 9, 10 ball, 1pkt, 14.1 and banks
-Has placed higher than 7th 20 times in 31 reported events**. Including a win in a 10ball event (where he beat Styer 9-3), and 2nd 5 times, 3rd 4 times.
-Has waaay more gambling street cred than Styer could possibly dream of...lol

Tyler:
-Doesn't make the world top 100 w/ a Fargo of 762 (>8.7k games)
-46th on 2022 AZB money leader board w/ ~$31k, (includes the 15k for being invited to Mosconi)
-**Hasn't placed higher than 7th in anything reported for 2022 (13 events, excluding Mosconi w/ 2nd)
-Is only a topic of conversation when he gets picked over someone else for the USA Mosconi team

Need more...?
No. I’m not knocking John at all. He has way more experience gambling then Tyler does. John has a lot of heart and is never afraid to jump up and play. Was just asking because before this last match he was 0-2 against Tyler gambling though.
 

cookie man

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Tyler will be playing Daryl Appleton in January. Looks like he’s looking to some in the box experience lol.
 
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