John Morra vs Tyler Styer race to 30 livestream

JolietJames

Boot Party Coordinator
Silver Member
I'm liking Styer in this one. Not sure why but I think Darren ain't the spd he used to be. I'm sure I'll get roasted for saying that.

Not everything needs to be an argument. I just thought it funny how we read it differently. My bad...
I'll take Styer in that match as well.
Daz still shoots great but he throws in a random mistake way more often than he did when he was at his best. I watched a little of his play at Sharks and saw the same things contiue to ruin his outs. I swear it's mental/confidence related because he can still run out his nearly impossible drills. I'd say he is twice as prone to miss a ball he is favored to make than Styer is. For that reason I will take Styer.
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The weakness in Styer and those like him is they are too robotic and haven't trained for all situations.

Pool is best played on a near subconscious level. A concert pianist isn't thinking of finger placement when playing Betoven.

In order to play with that automatically instinctual ability....you have to be in action, gambling.

Johnny won with the things that aren't captured easily....heart, determination and having been there and done that.
Most concert pianists would melt in a bet oven. :D
Nuther comparison fail is concert pianists have thoroughly worked the material down to the itty bitty sensations. Not gonna happen in pool.
Styer, I have theories but I have no clues except the now consistent, nearly predictable glitching.
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
For the Mosconi Cup Tyler has been the solidly second best player on the team for several years now. He shouldn't be the guy you are looking to replace, in fact his name shouldn't come up until fourth on the list of the players that you should be looking to replace on the team.
Can't agree with that. In the early rounds Tyler did look to me like he might even steal the MVP this year. However he suffered a decline after his doubles match with Oscar. IMHO, Oscar set him up for failure a few times with ill conceived efforts for unnecessary shape. Once they suffered that loss, his game dropped off and bottomed out with the 4 rail flier. Which I truly believe was adrenaline based decision. The only thing that could outweigh those bad odds on someone's difference engine would be the potential fan fair if it dropped.

I'd rank the team this year:
  1. SVB
  2. Skylar
  3. Tyler
  4. Oscar
  5. Earl
Oscar was the weakest link when factoring in expectation, even though Earl is lower on my list. Earl clearly had confidence issues and I don't have a stomach for teammates complaining about leaves they're given during the match. Should be nothing but positive reinforcement while in the heat of battle.

As much as it pains me. I think Tyler has the 3rd spot on the Mosconi until enough US players assert themselves otherwise. Swap out Oscar and Earl with anyone else in your top 15 and see how it shakes out next year.

Shane remains your only 'world beater'. However Skylar always seems to play over his usual spd in the Mosconi, so thank your lucky stars there. I think the heat Tyler will receive over the course of the next year for that 4 railer will be enough of a punishment. He's thoroughly battle tested now and won't try another move like that if given the opportunity. Simple truth is you don't have 3 players to swap in to give you a better shot. Stick with tossing the bottom 2 (which I think is pretty obvious) and see what happens.
 

Poolplaya9

Tellin' it like it is...
Silver Member
Can't agree with that. In the early rounds Tyler did look to me like he might even steal the MVP this year. However he suffered a decline after his doubles match with Oscar. IMHO, Oscar set him up for failure a few times with ill conceived efforts for unnecessary shape. Once they suffered that loss, his game dropped off and bottomed out with the 4 rail flier. Which I truly believe was adrenaline based decision. The only thing that could outweigh those bad odds on someone's difference engine would be the potential fan fair if it dropped.

I'd rank the team this year:
  1. SVB
  2. Skylar
  3. Tyler
  4. Oscar
  5. Earl
Oscar was the weakest link when factoring in expectation, even though Earl is lower on my list. Earl clearly had confidence issues and I don't have a stomach for teammates complaining about leaves they're given during the match. Should be nothing but positive reinforcement while in the heat of battle.

As much as it pains me. I think Tyler has the 3rd spot on the Mosconi until enough US players assert themselves otherwise. Swap out Oscar and Earl with anyone else in your top 15 and see how it shakes out next year.

Shane remains your only 'world beater'. However Skylar always seems to play over his usual spd in the Mosconi, so thank your lucky stars there. I think the heat Tyler will receive over the course of the next year for that 4 railer will be enough of a punishment. He's thoroughly battle tested now and won't try another move like that if given the opportunity. Simple truth is you don't have 3 players to swap in to give you a better shot. Stick with tossing the bottom 2 (which I think is pretty obvious) and see what happens.
For the Mosconi Cup Tyler is clearly a better player than SVB. If you got to the point down the list were you were looking to replace one of them it would be a no brainer, the long history of results don't lie and you would have to replace SVB before you replaced Tyler. SVB just can't play well under Mosconi Cup conditions to say the least, although through some miracle he did play much better than usual this year but that isn't saying much and it was still just average at best for the field. This year was a bit of a fluke in that SVB finally played half decent, and Tyler finally had an off year.
 

Fatboy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The commentator was selling Irish Pickles for hours....because almost funny.
It made me want to go eat fried pickles. Which is hard to find in LA. They are all over Vegas now. I liked their commentary, the technical stuff was ok, the rest was good. Well done I thought.
 

jokrswylde

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
For the Mosconi Cup Tyler is clearly a better player than SVB. If you got to the point down the list were you were looking to replace one of them it would be a no brainer, the long history of results don't lie and you would have to replace SVB before you replaced Tyler. SVB just can't play well under Mosconi Cup conditions to say the least, although through some miracle he did play much better than usual this year but that isn't saying much and it was still just average at best for the field. This year was a bit of a fluke in that SVB finally played half decent, and Tyler finally had an off year.
I don't remember Styer playing particularly well in MC. The year he won the Kremlin Cup, maybe, but I remember him being the one of the weakest players the other time. I'm just going off memory here and could absolutely be wrong.

I think Thorpe has the potential to be about the same level as Steyer, Definitely a notch below Skylar, but a notch above Oscar, Wolford, Roberts, or anyone else discussed for that 5th spot.
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
For the Mosconi Cup Tyler is clearly a better player than SVB. If you got to the point down the list were you were looking to replace one of them it would be a no brainer, the long history of results don't lie and you would have to replace SVB before you replaced Tyler. SVB just can't play well under Mosconi Cup conditions to say the least, although through some miracle he did play much better than usual this year but that isn't saying much and it was still just average at best for the field. This year was a bit of a fluke in that SVB finally played half decent, and Tyler finally had an off year.
Tyler and SVB were on the same team 4 times. To allow a comparison with similarly skilled teammates (doubles) and opponents. Lets just compare win-loss record from those years.

2018:
  • Tyler: Played 5, Record 3-2 =60%
  • SVB: Played 6, Record 4-2 =67%
2019:
  • Tyler: Played 4, Record 2-2 =50%
  • SVB: Played 7, Record 5-2 =71%
2021:
  • Tyler: Played 4, Record 2-2 =50%
  • SVB: Played 6, Record 1-5 =17%
2022:
  • Tyler: Played 4, Record 1-3 =25%
  • SVB: Played 6, Record 4-2 =67%
So if we average out their efforts. SVB ends up with 55%. Tyler finishes with 46%. That's closer than I thought it would be but it still "clearly" defines SVB as the stronger player given equal support.

You could try to rebut with the years SVB played and Tyler didn't. However then you would need to calculate in the strength not only of the USA during those years but also the Euros.

In an apples to apples comparison. SVB is the more reliable player. Surprised that required factual math to qualify to you...lol

If you want to be kind and toss out the worst efforts. The Tyler eeks up to 53%. Whereas SVB jumps to 68%.
 

Poolplaya9

Tellin' it like it is...
Silver Member
Tyler and SVB were on the same team 4 times. To allow a comparison with similarly skilled teammates (doubles) and opponents. Lets just compare win-loss record from those years.

2018:
  • Tyler: Played 5, Record 3-2 =60%
  • SVB: Played 6, Record 4-2 =67%
2019:
  • Tyler: Played 4, Record 2-2 =50%
  • SVB: Played 7, Record 5-2 =71%
2021:
  • Tyler: Played 4, Record 2-2 =50%
  • SVB: Played 6, Record 1-5 =17%
2022:
  • Tyler: Played 4, Record 1-3 =25%
  • SVB: Played 6, Record 4-2 =67%
So if we average out their efforts. SVB ends up with 55%. Tyler finishes with 46%. That's closer than I thought it would be but it still "clearly" defines SVB as the stronger player given equal support.

You could try to rebut with the years SVB played and Tyler didn't. However then you would need to calculate in the strength not only of the USA during those years but also the Euros.

In an apples to apples comparison. SVB is the more reliable player. Surprised that required factual math to qualify to you...lol

If you want to be kind and toss out the worst efforts. The Tyler eeks up to 53%. Whereas SVB jumps to 68%.
Looking at their entire Mosconi careers, Tyler has performed better than SVB. Even looking at just the years they both played Tyler has performed better. You can see it with your own eyes. And I'm guessing the stats would likely back it up as well but I don't have them available, perhaps you can post a link, but in any case it has been clear to see with our own eyes regardless of how the wins happened to shake out.

Not sure what you counted in the stats but the best comparison would probably be to only count the singles matches because we have no idea how a person played during their doubles match and they might have been carried by their partner or screwed by their partner. At the very least they should only get a half point for a doubles victory. But again, the eyeballs tell the story here. We can very clearly see with our own eyes that Tyler has played better in the Mosconi Cup, and it isn't some one year thing either, their entire histories support that trend. For whatever the reasons SVB just can't play well at all under these conditions and falls apart under this particular kind of pressure, and for whatever the reasons Tyler thrives under these conditions and plays as well or better under them.

In any case Tyler damn sure shouldn't be the guy we are most worried about getting rid of for next year as was being alluded to in the post I was responding to. I wasn't in favor of his pick when he was first picked several years ago but he has proven to be one of the best performers for the team, not one of the worst. Now after all the crappier players on the team have been replaced with great players and and we still have a prospect left who looks like he would probably do a better job than Tyler too, then by all means replace him, but it doesn't look like we are going to be in a position to be able to do that in the near future.
 
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Fatboy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Like Lee Trevino says " the older I get the better I used to be"
My favorite quote from him regarding a pressure shot in a match: “That’s not pressure. Pressure is having to make a $100 putt with $5 in your pocket.”
Those air barrels are real testers🤣😂
 

Fatboy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Like Lee Trevino says " the older I get the better I used to be"
My favorite quote from him regarding a pressure shot in a match: “That’s not pressure. Pressure is having to make a $100 putt with $5 in your pocket.”
There’s another golf quote I really like.

Jack Nicholas was talking about a huge 30’ putt he made to win a major, could have been the masters in the 70’s. I don’t remember the details of that. I do remember what he said. Was possibly the strongest statement a sports figure ever made.

The interview guy asked Jack about how he felt under pressure to make or miss such a long putt for the win under such circumstances. It wasn’t a hanger.

To which Jack simply replied:

“Missing it never entered my mind”

That’s all Jack said. That was strong af in the context of what happened and how he responded. Save all the bullshit about pressure or conditions. Save the glory pitch too. “Missing never occurred to me” imo that statement is strong as it gets. Jacks record validated that.

No long speeches, just the fact

Respect⛳🏌️‍♂️
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
Looking at their entire Mosconi careers, Tyler has performed better than SVB. Even looking at just the years they both played Tyler has performed better.
The numbers I posted above do not support that claim.
And I'm guessing the stats would likely back it up as well but I don't have them available, perhaps you can post a link,
The numbers I posted above do not support that claim. Google and wikipedia are your friend if you doubt what I posted earlier.
but in any case it has been clear to see with our own eyes regardless of how the wins happened to shake out.
Pretending it matters for a moment in terms of the Mosconi. Explain how the performance within a losing set matters in gauging a player's success and ability to put points on the board.
Not sure what you counted in the stats but the best comparison would probably be to only count the singles matches because we have no idea how a person played during their doubles match and they might have been carried by their partner or screwed by their partner. At the very least they should only get a half point for a doubles victory. But again, the eyeballs tell the story here. We can very clearly see with our own eyes that Tyler has played better in the Mosconi Cup, and it isn't some one year thing either, their entire histories support that trend. For whatever the reasons SVB just can't play well at all under these conditions, and for whatever the reasons Tyler thrives under these conditions and plays as well or better under them.

In any case Tyler damn sure shouldn't be the guy we are most worried about getting rid of as was being alluded to in the post I was responding to. I wasn't in favor of his pick when he was first picked several years ago but he has proven to be one of the best performers on the team not one of the worst.
I grabbed their performance history through the Mosconi wiki pages. Feel free to google and manipulate until you come up with some criteria that supports your narrative.

The comparative stats do not support your opinion. Please note that this is not my opinion. I'm merely the guy who has posted the numbers they have produced under the same conditions.
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
Not sure what you counted in the stats but the best comparison would probably be to only count the singles matches because we have no idea how a person played during their doubles match and they might have been carried by their partner or screwed by their partner.
I was bored so I entertained this... Singles record only.

2018:
  • Tyler: Played 2, record 1-1 =50%
  • SVB: Played 3, record 2-1 =67%
2019:
  • Tyler: Played 2, record 0-2 =0%
  • SVB: Played 4, record 2-2 =50%
2021:
  • Tyler: Played 1, record 1-0 =100%
  • SVB: Played 4, record 0-4 =0%
2022:
  • Tyler: Played 2, record 0-2 =0%
  • SVB: Played 2, record 0-2 =0%
So using your new criteria. Tyler played 7 singles matches and won 2, (29%) . SVB played 13 and won 4, (31%). Clearly the best player in USA is going to be given more kicks at the can, so we have a bit of a miss-matched sample size. Of course if you simply extend the trend, then Tyler would have ended up with a 4/14 record.

Once again, Tyler falls short of SVB in win percentage. Anything other filters you wanna try to validate your incorrect assessment..?

The only way one can consider Tyler the better performer, is if you cut him a free pass on worse results based solely on him not being the best player on the team. That sliding bar is fine, but it's subjective opinion, not based on facts and does nothing to help the score totals. This isn't figure skating, so style points don't win you sets.
 
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AtLarge

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Tyler and SVB were on the same team 4 times. To allow a comparison with similarly skilled teammates (doubles) and opponents. Lets just compare win-loss record from those years.

2018:
  • Tyler: Played 5, Record 3-2 =60%
  • SVB: Played 6, Record 4-2 =67%
2019:
  • Tyler: Played 4, Record 2-2 =50%
  • SVB: Played 7, Record 5-2 =71%
2021:
  • Tyler: Played 4, Record 2-2 =50%
  • SVB: Played 6, Record 1-5 =17%
2022:
  • Tyler: Played 4, Record 1-3 =25%
  • SVB: Played 6, Record 4-2 =67%
So if we average out their efforts. SVB ends up with 55%. Tyler finishes with 46%. That's closer than I thought it would be but it still "clearly" defines SVB as the stronger player given equal support.

You could try to rebut with the years SVB played and Tyler didn't. However then you would need to calculate in the strength not only of the USA during those years but also the Euros.

In an apples to apples comparison. SVB is the more reliable player. Surprised that required factual math to qualify to you...lol

If you want to be kind and toss out the worst efforts. The Tyler eeks up to 53%. Whereas SVB jumps to 68%.
A minor correction and a little additional info:

Correction -- SVB played in 7 matches in 2021 (plus the Teams match), going 0-4 in singles and 1-2 in doubles, for a total of 1-6.

Their total records for their 4 common years (again, excluding the Teams matches):
SVB -- 4-9 singles, 10-3 doubles, 14-12 total (winning percentage of 54%)​
Styer -- 2-5 singles, 6-4 doubles, 8-9 total (47%)​
Their records counting half a point, rather than a full point, for each player in a doubles match:
SVB -- 4-9 singles, 5-1.5 doubles, 9-10.5 total (46%)​
Styer -- 2-5 singles, 3-2 doubles, 5-7 total (42%)​
Records in games won and lost in the Teams matches for those 4 years (Team USA won the matches 3 of the 4 years):
SVB -- 6-1 (86%)​
Styer -- 4-2 (67%, but his 2 losses were to B&R games by his opponent, so Styer never shot in those 2 games)​
 
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The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
Looking at their entire Mosconi careers, Tyler has performed better than SVB.
First off, thank you. I've enjoyed digging through the online stats of the Mosconi comparing the numbers.

So if we were to compare their "entire" careers.... in singles only to remove "doubles blunders"

Tyler: Played 7 times. Record of 2-7 for a winning percentage of 29%
SVB: Played 43 times. Record of 16-27 for a winning percentage of 37%

Just keeps on getting better....lol

Realized this is the wrong thread for analyzing the Mosconi. I'll leave it at this. Really no point moving forward with the whole "tyler is better farce".
 

WobblyStroke

Well-known member
IMO, Morra is playing the best pool, of his pool playing career.

Even by his own admission, he is better now than he was as a right handed player. His Fargo Rate also supports that opinion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
While true, that doesn't mean he wasn't a better cueist right-handed...he was. There is just so much knowledge and nuance to these games that it takes a long time to get good at the game and choosing the right shots/routes, not just being able to execute. He is a fully seasoned pro now.

Had he been able to stick with his right hand, he'd gain all that experience and get better too, but imo would be able to execute that little bit better than he can with his left. I got to play with him when he was a teen and that stroke of his was one of the best I've ever seen in person. Super solid mechanically, but so fluid, with some personality in it. Watching him practice firing in 10foot shots on a snooker table was mesmerizing. I'm sure he could do all that with his left now too, but if he didn't have to devote so many thousands of hours just getting his left side up to pro speed, and got to spend that time continuing to fine tune his feel with the right, I'm sure he'd be in the top20 in the world right now (46 atm) with a shot at the 1 spot any given season if he got hot at the right events.
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
A minor correction and a little additional info:

Correction -- SVB played in 7 matches in 2021 (plus the Teams match), going 0-4 in singles and 1-2 in doubles, for a total of 1-6.

Their total records for their 4 common years (again, excluding the Teams matches):
SVB -- 4-9 singles, 10-3 doubles, 14-12 total (winning percentage of 54%)​
Styer -- 2-5 singles, 6-4 doubles, 8-9 total (47%)​
Their records counting half a point, rather than a full point, for each player in a doubles match:
SVB -- 4-9 singles, 5-1.5 doubles, 9-10.5 total (46%)​
Styer -- 2-5 singles, 3-2 doubles, 5-7 total (42%)​
Records in games won and lost in the Teams matches for those 4 years:
SVB -- 6-1 (86%)​
Styer -- 4-2 (67%, but his 2 losses were to B&R games by his opponent, so Styer never shot in those 2 games)​
Excellent and thank you... I was flipping back and forth between here and wiki. Not surprised at the errors. Should note that I didn't take into account the "teams matches" because I didn't know the hard performance of either player if any in those situations.
 

WobblyStroke

Well-known member
But Tyler has won the other two times they played. Why was he the underdog here?
The Jets beat the bills this season and are again 10point underdogs to them this week. Betting odds and match favorites cannot be too skewed by a couple results. Sure if you are gambling with some random, you can adjust spots/stakes after every race, but with so much data behind both of these guys' ratings, even if Styer beat him a 3rd in a row, Morra would be fav in the next one too.
 

SBC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Most concert pianists would melt in a bet oven. :D
Nuther comparison fail is concert pianists have thoroughly worked the material down to the itty bitty sensations. Not gonna happen in pool.
Styer, I have theories but I have no clues except the now consistent, nearly predictable glitching.
You never just played?
Gamble for 18 hours...it's more mental than physical

Pool the same...you are training to achieve MUSCLE MEMORY...so it's automatic
 
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