Joint opinions

peteypooldude

I see Edges
Silver Member
What’s the difference in feel and response when playing with joints made from ..
SS
G 10
Fill in the blank
Fill in the blank
 

Cron

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
In short, I have no idea.

I've read a lot on this subject and nothing has definitively convinced me one way or the other. Literally everything I've read is based on the perceived tensile strength of the material without any proof or study. I have a G10, SS and titanium, but unless I coduct a blind test with 3 identical sticks rotating pins 3 times how could I ever form a logical opinion? Considering it would take at least 9 sticks machined identically, that's too rich for me. Surprisingly though, it seems no one of any monetary wealth has ever documented this comparison. If you ever run across any proof, real proof, please PM with the study.

I will say state this though; it's better not to trap too much weight with permanence so you can always balance the weight with temporary or modular weighting methods until you're happy. That's why I prefer G10.
 

evergruven

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
got a cheap billiards cue
I love the wood pin on it
it stays tight
looks
and
feels
good
:canoodle:
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What’s the difference in feel and response when playing with joints made from ..
SS
G 10
Fill in the blank
Fill in the blank
Here we go again. No offense but this has been covered here a lot. Various blind tests with joints covered up have shown that almost no one can tell by the hit what kind of joint the cue has. Balance points can vary due to the weight at the joint but hit/feel is a different story. The taper of the shaft, ferrule material and tip have far more effect on how a cue plays/feels.
 

mikemosconi

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Here we go again. No offense but this has been covered here a lot. Various blind tests with joints covered up have shown that almost no one can tell by the hit what kind of joint the cue has. Balance points can vary due to the weight at the joint but hit/feel is a different story. The taper of the shaft, ferrule material and tip have far more effect on how a cue plays/feels.

I would agree with this after owning and playing with productions and customs of every joint material; I don't think it matters as much as some people claim; unless it is metal against metal like the older dufferin two piece cues, then you just change out the butt or shaft joint.
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I would agree with this after owning and playing with productions and customs of every joint material; I don't think it matters as much as some people claim; unless it is metal against metal like the older dufferin two piece cues, then you just change out the butt or shaft joint.
I found the old test info. In 1991 on the Texas Express Tour they did over 800 blind tests. 70% were unable to tell or guessed wrong as to what joint was in a cue. There was a favorite and when revealed it was two wood-to-wood sneakies. What's funny is that of the 70 testers 55 liked these cues the best and they thought it was a steel joint. Whole thing: its the 6/14/99 post by John McChesney. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.sport.billiard/SgU43CN6aEc
 
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Sealegs50

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I found the old test info. In 1991 on the Texas Express Tour they did over 800 blind tests. 70% were unable to tell or guessed wrong as to what joint was in a cue. There was a favorite and when revealed it was two wood-to-wood sneakies. What's funny is that of the 70 testers 55 liked these cues the best and they thought it was a steel joint. Whole thing: its the 6/14/99 post by John McChesney. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.sport.billiard/SgU43CN6aEc

Random guessing would have been better.
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Random guessing would have been better.
Huh?? What do you mean? The joints on the cues were covered and players were asked what joint was in the cue. 70% failed. Bottom line is you'll be hard pressed to identify a cue's hit/feel by its joint type. I remember first time i hit a SW cue. Stiff as hell and made that "ping" sound. Had i not seen the joint i'd have bet it was steel. I thought that flat-face joints had a softer hit for some reason. Nope.
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don't have any long pin cues. I want a small sampling just for the chic I guess. You see so many major players use 'em as if to say, "I don't need to unscrew as much."

Starting cheap; Macs and Schmelke. Wish you could still get Kaiser though...
 

Nullus

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Here we go again. No offense but this has been covered here a lot. Various blind tests with joints covered up have shown that almost no one can tell by the hit what kind of joint the cue has. Balance points can vary due to the weight at the joint but hit/feel is a different story. The taper of the shaft, ferrule material and tip have far more effect on how a cue plays/feels.

Why does this comment not surprise me at all. Bored again today garczar? You're the epitome of what's bad for this forum. You push members away, or at the least attempt to shame them into not wanting to post questions.

How about this....here we go again with the negative, unnecessary snide comments on a question that someone is looking for expertise and/or opinions regarding something.

You would think you're a moderator, when instead you come across as a snide forum troll.
 
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garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Why does this comment not surprise me at all. Bored again today garczar? You're the epitome of what's bad for this forum. You push members away, or at the least attempt to shame them into not wanting to post questions.

How about this....here we go again with the negative, unnecessary snide comments on a question that someone is looking for expertise and/or opinions regarding something.

You would think you're a moderator, when instead you come across as a snide forum troll.
Feel free to put me on "Ignore" or don't respond at all. Sorry you don't make the rules.If you think your opinion of me means diddly think again. BTW, my "existence" is just fine thank you.
 
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Sealegs50

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Huh?? What do you mean? The joints on the cues were covered and players were asked what joint was in the cue. 70% failed. Bottom line is you'll be hard pressed to identify a cue's hit/feel by its joint type. I remember first time i hit a SW cue. Stiff as hell and made that "ping" sound. Had i not seen the joint i'd have bet it was steel. I thought that flat-face joints had a softer hit for some reason. Nope.

I am in agreement. There were 3 joints and 3 choices. 33% of the guesses would have been correct with random guessing and 67% would have been wrong. 800 guesses may not have been large enough for significance, but there wasn't even a trend toward being able to identify the joint composition.
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I am in agreement. There were 3 joints and 3 choices. 33% of the guesses would have been correct with random guessing and 67% would have been wrong. 800 guesses may not have been large enough for significance, but there wasn't even a trend toward being able to identify the joint composition.
I hear all the time how big-pin cues hit this way or G10 hits that way etc. If you took,say, 20-25 cues of various joint types and covered the joint area i think few,if any, could tell which was which. Too many other factors such as those listed in McChesney's article(taper, ferrule,wood density, tip) have more sway on how a cue hits/feels.
 

Sealegs50

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I hear all the time how big-pin cues hit this way or G10 hits that way etc. If you took,say, 20-25 cues of various joint types and covered the joint area i think few,if any, could tell which was which. Too many other factors such as those listed in McChesney's article(taper, ferrule,wood density, tip) have more sway on how a cue hits/feels.

...and wood joints are soft and steel joints hit hard. Pool player lore.
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
...and wood joints are soft and steel joints hit hard. Pool player lore.
Exactly. Agree 100%. Pool is full of, for lack of a better term, "old wives tales". When told enough they kinda become "poolisms". I knew a guy years ago that would have bet his house that you could draw your ball better with a flat-face joint. Where he got that or what he based it on was most likely just another "poolism".
 

Thecoats

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I have owned well over 75 cues by just about every cue maker out there over that last 35 years and while I don't really think I could tell the difference if I didn't know what pin was in a cue. I do know I have some sort of mental block/bias against Radial, Uni-Loc, and flat face 5/16-18. I have never kept a cue with one of those joint types for more than a few weeks.

I tend to think 5/16-14 steel jointed cues produce a stiffer hit than 3/8-10 flat face cues. But I also feel so much of how a cue feels is related to the hardness of the tip on the cue.

Thanks
-don
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have owned well over 75 cues by just about every cue maker out there over that last 35 years and while I don't really think I could tell the difference if I didn't know what pin was in a cue. I do know I have some sort of mental block/bias against Radial, Uni-Loc, and flat face 5/16-18. I have never kept a cue with one of those joint types for more than a few weeks.

I tend to think 5/16-14 steel jointed cues produce a stiffer hit than 3/8-10 flat face cues. But I also feel so much of how a cue feels is related to the hardness of the tip on the cue.

Thanks
-don
I hear ya. IMO the tip, ferrule and taper are what really determines the "hit". Ever hit a SW? By far the stiffest, 'pingiest' hitting cue i've ever hit and its a flat-face joint.
 

Geosnooker

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I was at the thrift store couple years back and bought a gorgeous Barracuda Snooker cue with leather case ]for $20. I buy cues for my collection rather than to use as I’ve use my current cue for 14 years and it plays fine. I stick with one cue and don’t search for the magic wand.

The Barracuda Cue has an all wooden pin assembly. I’ve had friends try it on my snooker table without telling them. None mentioned any difference from a cue with a metal insert.

The cue is quite old, looks like it as well used. Pin as good as ever.
 
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Snooker Theory

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Some guy 20 years ago did a test with some players and apparently nothing has changed in that time:embarrassed2: and that test was the end of all future discussions on the topic...

ya'll will be citing that article a 100 years from now.
 

mikemosconi

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
About 55 years ago Andy Warhol made several wooden boxes and screen printed the brillo soap pad box letters on his wooden boxes. Some of the boxes were white and just a few were yellow. Most of the white wooden brillo boxes are in MAJOR US museums. One of his yellow brillo wooden boxes, without a spec of hand painting- just silkscreen - sold for $3million at auction a few years ago.

Several of us can make a brillo box to the exact specs that Andy Warhol made and no one could tell the difference- the price was based on the fact that Andy Warhol made it- period! So people will pay any amount of money based on their own perceived value of it in a given marketplace; regardless of what went into making it.

A cue with such and such a joint material, point construction, etc. is perceived to play "better" - sometimes because of who made it- discretionary income creates odd buying habits.
 
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