Justin Bergman slow playing

[Tin Man]

No, but I have played Justin a few times, once in a first round match, once in a finals match, and I've sweated many of his matches.

So- either he played the same as he usually does which is deliberate, not slow...OR this match was somehow unique in comparison to all of his other matches in which case it doesn't really reflect his usual game and should probably be let go.

 

[amicenheimer]

Justin will probably read this thread and speed up his play.

 

[gxman]

Maybe with a strong showing, Justin will get back into the MC Cup race standings.

 

[j_zippel]

Justin will probably read this thread and speed up his play.

Lol.. A bunch of Amateurs criticizing his "slow play" is hilarious. His style of play has won him a pile of cash and he's up there with the best money players out there. Maybe average out the time he spends per rack instead of a couple shots he puts more thought into.

I know I know, this is what the forum is for, to give opinion... Blah blah blah.
The kid knows when extra time is needed to be in proper position, it's what separates him from the majority of other players that play pro tournaments.

Love to hear teachermans thoughts on this subject...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[barrymuch90]

I recal another thread speaking ill of Justin after the bar table is open 8 n 10 ball events and Justin did go on that thread n said he read the negative things said about him n defended himself a little but basically was just saying it's crazy how people base a players skill off of a few short sets. Anyways after that tournament and after that thread Justin went on to double dip jhall I. The 10 ball big table tourny I believe in Memphis then double dip sky in the usbtc10 ball earlier this week n now he's at least getting 3rd in the 9 ball n could very well win the event. I think the players in these last couple events would wanna slap the guys that lit a fire under Justin Bergman lol

 

[nick serdula]

Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Slowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.
He is shooting not you. Try him some. No one likes being slow played. Kills timing.
Back fires too. On the shooter whom slow plays themself right out of stroke.
Head Games vs Pool Gods
Volume # 1
Avoid the wrath,
Nick

 

[Teacherman]

Needing rhythm is a myth. Poppeycock.

Greatest cue ball control in the country comes from skill and decison making. NO ONE is better at it than Justin Bergman.

The rack he took an extra long time analyzing....needed it. Very difficult rack. And he played it masterfully after making his choices and ran out. BRAVO.

Gotta love the crybabies.

 

[9Ballr]

I have noticed that Justin is playing extremely slow. He gets down on a shot and gets back up off it sometimes 4 or 5 times. I watched him take as long to shoot a simple straight back bank as it took Skylar to run the entire rack after Justin missed the bank. He seems very indecisive on every shot. I wonder if it is because he is nervous or what is causing him to play this slow.

In my opinion there should always be a shot clock.
In all competitive events.
This whole shoot when you want to won't cut it in any other competitive sport.
And if people want to see pool as the competitive sport it is you can not
let people circle the table for as long as they want to.
On top of that I think shot clocks should be used in all your local BCA and APA leagues.

 

[Get_A_Grip]

Amateur vs. Pro

My take on this from an amateur player's perspective:

1) One should only take as much time on a shot as one's skill level allows. For example, an amateur that takes an excessively long time at the table, when in fact, that person CANNOT control the cue ball in a consistent manner to get the position on the next shot anyway -- is wasting everyone's time (including their own).

2) However, for a pro player -- taking their time and planning every shot is very feasible, as they can routinely maneuver their way through the rack, many times exactly as initially planned (or very close to it).

Justin falls in the latter category, as well as most other pros. So for an amateur player to watch the pros play a game of 8-ball, the game looks TOTALLY different (much slower and more deliberate) than during their local league play.

 

[klockdoc]

Double Dipping

I recal another thread speaking ill of Justin after the bar table is open 8 n 10 ball events and Justin did go on that thread n said he read the negative things said about him n defended himself a little but basically was just saying it's crazy how people base a players skill off of a few short sets. Anyways after that tournament and after that thread Justin went on to double dip jhall I. The 10 ball big table tourny I believe in Memphis then double dip sky in the usbtc10 ball earlier this week n now he's at least getting 3rd in the 9 ball n could very well win the event. I think the players in these last couple events would wanna slap the guys that lit a fire under Justin Bergman lol

You forgot to mention that he also double dipped Mike Dechaine in the 8 Ball tournament in Vegas this past July.

 

[AtLarge]

... So for an amateur player to watch the pros play a game of 8-ball, the game looks TOTALLY different (much slower and more deliberate) than during their local league play.

In professional 8-Ball tournaments and challenge matches, they usually average 5 to 6 minutes per game, including the lag, racking, and any timeouts. Do you think amateurs typically play quicker than that?

 

[couldnthinkof01]

They sure dont, they miss position or balls too often for the games to be that short.

 

[BRussell]

It is possible for people to play fast and without thinking but the game takes a long time due to misses.

I also think that all tournaments like this ought to have a shot clock. Use one of the timer apps on a phone, and if it chimes before you shoot, it's a foul. That way you don't need a referee. (And Justin B. does fine when he plays with a shot clock, like at the Mosconi Cup.)

 

[spartan]

I'd agree with that, and makes perfectly good sense. And i've seen him play plenty before and it was similar to his usual routine.

But last night, triple those figures. At least. Who knows, like the commentators said, he might not even know he's doing it

Really, if it is triple that is slow. How long was the match and what was the score ? So we know time per rack. If average per rack is closer to 8 minutes that is quite slow.

 

[Get_A_Grip]

In professional 8-Ball tournaments and challenge matches, they usually average 5 to 6 minutes per game, including the lag, racking, and any timeouts. Do you think amateurs typically play quicker than that?

Amateurs don't typically plan out every shot in a rack, but obviously the whole game(s) take longer due to missed shots and missed position. My point is, amateurs would take less time studying the rack and less time between taking each shot. There are exceptions of course. A guy on a team that I played for had a really low average, but likely to give the impression to others that he knew what he was doing by studying each shot excessively.

My point is, that when pros study the rack -- they usually have a good chance of making the shot and achieving position on the next shot -- so the time spent is more justified.

 

[AtLarge]

Amateurs don't typically plan out every shot in a rack, but obviously the whole game(s) take longer due to missed shots and missed position. My point is, amateurs would take less time studying the rack and less time between taking each shot. There are exceptions of course. A guy on a team that I played for had a really low average, but likely to give the impression to others that he knew what he was doing by studying each shot excessively.

My point is, that when pros study the rack -- they usually have a good chance of making the shot and achieving position on the next shot -- so the time spent is more justified.

Thanks for re-explaining; I understand your point now -- you're kind of talking seconds per shot rather than minutes per game. But I have no data on lower-level players to confirm it.

 

[Tin Man]

OK, I'm tilted. This will be my most emotional post in my 10 year azb history.

The hate against slow play is the worst side of pool players I've ever seen.

It hurts NO ONE. It does NOTHING.

What if everyone got together and hated on people that shot too fast? Would that make any sense at all? It's absolutely absurd. Or if we hated on people that used open hand bridges?

The arguments are so f-ing whiny I have no words. What do we have again? Oh, let's see...it's killing the game for TV. Yeah, that's right, we put a 30 second shot clock together and we're all making millions. Zero chance. What's next, oh yeah, the game shouldn't be played without a time clock like other sports? Right, because pool has been played wrong the last hundred years.

The bottom line is that we have some free wheeling hot shots that think they play the game the way it's 'supposed to be played', who have the mental control of a 6 year old that missed their nap, that somehow get irked when their opponent gets off a shot or wants looks at their position from POV as part of their preshot routine. GET. OVER. IT. You don't get to decide how the game 'ought' to be played.

You're entitled to your opinions, yes, yes, you are. You can cast your vote. But to publicly attack players, launch hate campaigns, and go all 'lord of the flies' on our top US players because you forgot your fing Ritalin, it's very disappointing. I would think we are better than this as humans.

You might think I'm attacking, but I'm not. I'm honestly just defending their rights to play the game how they want. Keep thinking their slow, that's fine. But BACK OFF and be respectful. PLEASE.

Thank you.

 

[PocketSpeed11]

Too many people are commenting as if they are "in the know" in this thread when they did not see Bergman shoot in Vegas the past few days. He is playing noticeable slow in Vegas and I never considered him a slow player. He is one of my favorite players, has excellent rhythm at the table, and is just a straight up monster. If being more methodical is helping him go the extra mile, then all the power to him. But I don't think the OP was trashing Bergman by any means. I think some people are commenting based on assumption (as in they didn't see him shoot in person or on the stream at the USBTC), someone is overreacting, and Teacherman is the pot calling the kettle black.

 

[Tin Man]

OP didn't attack JB. But "slow play" is under continuous attack. The next few posts were rallying about shot clocks, suggesting it is a strategy to undermine his opponent, and go on to get more and more carried away. I've seen these posts and threads dozens of times, do a search or ask me to link a few, but don't act like you haven't seen it. Are you ok with the hate?

 

[MuchoBurrito]

No shot clock. That the trouble with tournaments in the USA. Players get accustomed to studying the layout and shooting too slow. When the USA players play in the Mosconi Cup, they feel the added pressure of changing to a faster style of play.

There may be something to that for rotation games. However, for 8 ball, I don't agree with a shot clock being used.