Kaci got away with obvious foul in the WPM final?! (plus similar case Capito)

[djyadj]

First of all I'm no Kaci hater, actually liked his style of play.
KPY got some juicy rolls after misses but played with all his heart throughout the tournament, could sense his hunger again like back in 2015.
Full credits to him and congrats on the really nice win, possibly the toughest WPM field so far, not one single easy match.

With all that being said, I'd like to discuss about player's integrity.
I understand why it happens, because everyone wants to win, different players may choose differently under the circumstance though, some would still call foul on themselves without hesitation.
But there are these batches that would stay silent if they sense they may get away with it?
What are the opinions about why it kept happening in pool, is it simply because pool doesn't pay enough?
Does it happen to other sports that pays extremly well often?

I saw a member or two discussed about it during the match, but no real discussion, this has already caused some significant hate towards Kaci from Kpy's huge fanbase in Taiwan and Vietnam on facebook.

Here's what happened,

Matchroom Pool - 🤝 #WorldPoolMasters

🤝 #WorldPoolMasters

www.facebook.com

Also a Hk player Robbie Capito had a worse demonstration during his encounter with Ko ping chung at last year's predator series, his foul is with cue ball!
at least Kaci won't get caught if we were playing cue ball foul only lol

@46.25

Are the old timers more honest, or are these younger generation just too eager to cash?$$

 

[Bob Jewett]

I think it's entirely possible that he did not notice the touch on the 8 because he was focused on the shot.

 

[sjm]

Disgraceful in my books. Kaci should feel embarrassed and deserves any backlash he gets from the Ko camp. I'll add that he was less than gracious in defeat in the interview following the final. When you get demolished by a score of 13-5, just say you were outplayed. As a player, Kaci's amazing. As a person and sportsman, he's still developing. He's young and has time to correct these flaws, and I think he'll learn from this. Wishing continued success to this undeniable superstar.

Of course, pool's toxic environment is part of the problem. Even on this forum, many profess the "if you snooze, you lose" mentality and it's time for players to stop saying and living by this and further commit themselves to playing with maximum integrity.

To be fair, the otherwise outstanding referee needs some schooling, having been positioned incorrectly to watch a shot that involved cueing so close to another object ball. Just like players, referees can learn from their mistakes.

 

[Pin]

Does it happen to other sports that pays extremly well often?

Here in the UK, cheating is endemic in professional soccer (which pays very well). Specifically, players routinely fake being fouled, and when fouled, fake being injured to try to ensure it's spotted and increase the other guy's punishment.

In fairness to the divers, very good players get targeted for physical damage to stop them playing their best or provoke them into lashing out and getting dismissed from the game. Pretending to be injured (whether fouled or not) helps protect against that.

In very big games, the best players get targeted for very violent fouls that quite often result in serious injury.

The worst people do it, get away with it, then other people join in, and it becomes a culture.

But I think the money and the pressure on managers to win cause this to become an institutionalized team tactic.

Barcelona are exceptional at it. In normal games, they cultivate a very clean image (they usually don't need to cheat to win) and in big games you sometimes see pretty much the whole team target one key opposition player, throughout the game.

I'm also reminded of Rodman taking out John Stockton's knee in the playoff finals. Cheating wins championships.

 

[Iwishiwasrich]

Maybe the ref needs to mark the ball location on the table with chalk like in the Philippines. I watched the match and I missed that foul,normally I would catch it. I bet Kaci knew he touched it.

 

[skogstokig]

Disgraceful in my books. Kaci should feel embarrassed and deserves any backlash he gets from the Ko camp. I'll add that he was less than gracious in defeat in the interview following the final. When you get demolished by a score of 13-5, just say you were outplayed. As a player, Kaci's amazing. As a person and sportsman, he's still developing. He's young and has time to correct these flaws, and I think he'll learn from this. Wishing continued success to this undeniable superstar.

Of course, pool's toxic environment is part of the problem. Even on this forum, many profess the "if you snooze, you lose" mentality and it's time for players to stop saying and living by this and further commit themselves to playing with maximum integrity.

To be fair, the otherwise outstanding referee needs some schooling, having been positioned incorrectly to watch a shot that involved cueing so close to another object ball. Just like players, referees can learn from their mistakes.

no input on kaci, i didn't watch the trophy stuff but ko did get a lot off rolls in the match. if that was his complaint, while true, it's a pointless thing to bring up. rolls come and go.

i think desislova is mainly a snooker ref and the last few years the WPBSA have instructed them to stand behind the player, so it's probably a habit she needs to shake. marcel doesn't do this while reffing pool.

 

[maha]

it depends on how you view things. is it the job of the ref to calls fouls and the other player on you . or are you supposed to call them on yourself. what about close calls that may be a foul but not sure.

what other sports other than golf do some of the players call penalties on themselves.

 

[Cuedup]

Cheaters cheat. That's why they're known as cheaters.

Kaci is now in that camp.

 

[cookie man]

Is this in the same category as SVB letting that guy shoot the wrong ball before calling the foul?
Shouldn’t the ref be the one to call the foul?
Just opening up the discussion some.

 

[JolietJames]

1. It was low to not call that foul on himself. He felt it.

2. Being gracious in a loss is not easy under some circumstances.
I don't know what he said but I would have said something along the lines of, "He was destined to win the match."
It's easy to laugh off lucky rolls possibly determining the finals of your local Sunday 9ball tournament.
You have a great chance to snap it off next week.
Having your opponent get rewarded for missing shots is not as easy to take when it's at the World Pool Masters final.
You may not get that opportunity again.
The majority of people like the luck factor determining outcomes. I do not.
I hope Kaci was not rude, because it was not Ko's fault that fate rewarded his errors.

 

[JolietJames]

Is this in the same category as SVB letting that guy shoot the wrong ball before calling the foul?
Shouldn’t the ref be the one to call the foul?
Just opening up the discussion some.

Shane did not call the foul on Joey, the ref did.
However, I wish he would have said something before the shot.
Those idiotic ball colors had an effect on the outcome of the match.

Barely touching the 8ball gave Kaci no advantage. He could have replaced the ball, altered his bridge 1/2", and continued the runout if the "all balls drama" rule was not in effect.
Rules are rules blah blah... I know, I get it.
If a hair on your arm touches a ball, history will forever be changed.
It's THAT important to use that rule and enforce it to that degree I guess.

 

[couldnthinkof01]

1. It was low to not call that foul on himself. He felt it.

2. Being gracious in a loss is not easy under some circumstances.
I don't know what he said but I would have said something along the lines of, "He was destined to win the match."
It's easy to laugh off lucky rolls possibly determining the finals of your local Sunday 9ball tournament.
You have a great chance to snap it off next week.
Having your opponent get rewarded for missing shots is not as easy to take when it's at the World Pool Masters final.
You may not get that opportunity again.
The majority of people like the luck factor determining outcomes. I do not.
I hope Kaci was not rude, because it was not Ko's fault that fate rewarded his errors.

I do my best to always be gracious in defeat. That said, it would take some getting used to having a person interview you directly after a match.
Get the hell out of my face and let me be salty for 5 minutes before you ask stupid questions.
Glad I'm not a pro.

 

[sjm]

Is this in the same category as SVB letting that guy shoot the wrong ball before calling the foul?
Shouldn’t the ref be the one to call the foul?
Just opening up the discussion some.

I don't see a similarity. While it may be true that some would have alerted Joey to the fact that he was about to play the balls out of order, it's not ever the responsibility of the player in the chair to tell opponent he's about to make a mistake. The obligation of the player in the chair is to remain silent while opponent is at the table.

 

[sjm]

1. It was low to not call that foul on himself. He felt it.

2. Being gracious in a loss is not easy under some circumstances.
I don't know what he said but I would have said something along the lines of, "He was destined to win the match."
It's easy to laugh off lucky rolls possibly determining the finals of your local Sunday 9ball tournament.
You have a great chance to snap it off next week.
Having your opponent get rewarded for missing shots is not as easy to take when it's at the World Pool Masters final.
You may not get that opportunity again.
The majority of people like the luck factor determining outcomes. I do not.
I hope Kaci was not rude, because it was not Ko's fault that fate rewarded his errors.

Kaci was not rude, but luck didn't decide this match. Kaci's first comment was about how poorly he broke in the final relative to his other matches. It was only afterward that he began to talk at length about the rolls. Yes, Ko got a few, but the match was a massacre in which one player clearly outperformed the other.

To be fair, Kaci got plenty of luck to reach the final. Mario He hooked himself on the five ball at double hill and that's how Kaci reached the semifinal. Then Niels Feijen broke dry and left Kaci a runout at double hill in the semis. The pool gods took awfully good care of Kaci during his march to the final.

I agree with those that suggest that the fact that the players are interviewed immediately makes it harder on them. The loser has surely not unwound yet and is not quite ready for it. Unfortunately, it's a bad look for pool when the loser bemoans his bad luck in a post-match interview as Kaci did.

 

[Mobiker]

I can't see the link because I don't use Facebook. How did he touch the 8; hand, arm, other? Also, did it move?

Thanks, SJM, for bringing up sportsmanship. I was ranting to my poor wife when Kaci said Ko got all the rolls. That is a terrible excuse...he should have recognized Ko's outstanding performance.

 

[Bob Jewett]

I can't see the link because I don't use Facebook. How did he touch the 8; hand, arm, other? Also, did it move? ...

He touched it with the tip of his little finger. It rocked. I don't think anyone here can be sure he felt it. He was concentrating on other things.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... Also a Hk player Robbie Capito had a worse demonstration during his encounter with Ko ping chung at last year's predator series, his foul is with cue ball!
at least Kaci won't get caught if we were playing cue ball foul only lol

@46.25
....

Is it possible that either:
1. Capito did not notice the nudge on the cue ball or
2. he was not sure he had touched the cue ball?

The touch happens as he first addresses the cue ball for the safe here (time 46:21 in the link):

Robbie Capito vs. Ko Ping Chung ▸ 2022 FargoRate Ohio Open ▸ Predator Pro Billiard Series

Commentary by Mark White & Tim De RuyterCSI presents the 2022 FargoRate OpenOctober 19-22Roberts Center, Wilmington, OhioInformationhttps://probilliardseries...

www.youtube.com

 

[boogieman]

He touched it, reacted to the touch, got his cue on line, you could see the gears spinning... yeah I touched it. He stands up waiting for the ref to call the foul... then for some reason goes back down on the shot.

Skeevy.

 

[iusedtoberich]

Edit: mistaken.

 

[spartan]

Well, it was 3-3 when Kaci touched 8 ball with his finger tip and he won the rack to lead 4-3. If it was foul BIH, Ko would win rack and lead 4-3.
Would not have made much difference to end result.

Anyway, it is nonsense to expect and trust someone to call foul on himself (especially when there is ref) when playing in final where winner gets record $40K (big increase from $25K last year) and runner up gets $20K
It is like the scene in one of last episodes of the overrated Breaking Bad.
Walt asks Ed "The Disappearer"- "My money over there. What happens to it then? What if I ask you to give it to my family? Would you do it?"