keilwood for suckers

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I guess Dr Dave is a liar too.
I agree. The cf shafts he tried must have been pretty bad. I've tested about 6-8 and all have been less defl. than maple. Some were way less. The 11.8 Cynergy is the least dfl. shaft that i've ever hit. I have hit a couple made by small individual shops that were about same as maple but all the major names were less deflecting.
 

DaveK

Still crazy after all these years
Silver Member
Not something you need to worry about. Any changes a shaft MIGHT go thru would be so miniscule you'd never notice it. I live in a state that has BIG humidity swings. Have NEVER noticed ANY differences due to weather/humidity swings.
I have an ultra-joint Lambros with two shafts. Thankfully a previous owned discretely marked them on the face so I can tell them apart. One fits very well in the summer but not in the winter, the other just the opposite. I've always thought that to be related the humidity.

Dave
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have an ultra-joint Lambros with two shafts. Thankfully a previous owned discretely marked them on the face so I can tell them apart. One fits very well in the summer but not in the winter, the other just the opposite. I've always thought that to be related the humidity.

Dave
I was referring to playability. I think that's what the guy was asking about. I've seen slight fit issues like this a lot.
 

Chili Palmer

funking idiot
Silver Member
I agree. The cf shafts he tried must have been pretty bad. I've tested about 6-8 and all have been less defl. than maple. Some were way less. The 11.8 Cynergy is the least dfl. shaft that i've ever hit. I have hit a couple made by small individual shops that were about same as maple but all the major names were less deflecting.

I picked up a CF shaft a Vegas trade show a couple of years back and hit some balls, nope, not low deflection, was missing ALL the long shots and most of the short ones, by way of deflection. Put the cue down and vowed to never own one, not saying they're not perfect for some but they aren't for me.
 

Chili Palmer

funking idiot
Silver Member
I have an ultra-joint Lambros with two shafts. Thankfully a previous owned discretely marked them on the face so I can tell them apart. One fits very well in the summer but not in the winter, the other just the opposite. I've always thought that to be related the humidity.

Dave

Have you tried waxing the inside of the tight one?


(That's what she said...)
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What kind was it? I ask because all the cf shafts by major players i've tried were less deflecting than solid maple. The only one that was as bad or worse was made by a small ind. shop. Can't remember the maker but the guy just bought some tubes and finished them. It was pretty bad actually.
I picked up a CF shaft a Vegas trade show a couple of years back and hit some balls, nope, not low deflection, was missing ALL the long shots and most of the short ones, by way of deflection. Put the cue down and vowed to never own one, not saying they're not perfect for some but they aren't for me.
 

Cornerman

Cue Author...Sometimes
Gold Member
Silver Member
I picked up a CF shaft a Vegas trade show a couple of years back and hit some balls, nope, not low deflection, was missing ALL the long shots and most of the short ones, by way of deflection. Put the cue down and vowed to never own one, not saying they're not perfect for some but they aren't for me.
Lot of cuemakers who build a CF shaft aren’t doing things to make them low squirt. I have two CF shafts that aren’t particularly low squirt, so I really like them! My Revo is very low squirt, as I would expect it to be.
 

Poolplaya9

Tellin' it like it is...
Silver Member
100% agree on new stuff, can't stand it. I have friends that buy cues and whenever I try one I hit a few balls and say nice cue but more than likely after the first hit I can't get it out of my hands fast enough. I've been meaning to start a thread in the builders forum about any known ways to "season" a cue, soak it in a chemical, etc. to a get better feel/sound (tonal is how I describe it to friends) out of it, I'm getting ready to build some shafts for a couple of my cues. But I haven't done enough research yet to ask the right questions.

And thanks for the info on the hit, that sounds exactly like what I was looking for, I'll have to buy some now. (y)
Seems like the way to know for sure if you prefer this wood or not would be to buy a kielwood blank and if possible have the cue maker of your current playing cue finish it with the taper that you are already familiar with and know you like so that the only thing different is the wood (of course use the same tip and same ferrule and joint collar material you are used to as well etc). For the same reasons I would also pair it with the current butt you use so everything is an apples to apples comparison outside the shaft wood, and the other obvious benefit of having the blank finished is they can of course match your ring work as well. If you go that route where everything but the shaft wood is kept the same I would be interested in hearing your thoughts about what differences you perceive once you have played it some.
 

Chili Palmer

funking idiot
Silver Member
Seems like the way to know for sure if you prefer this wood or not would be to buy a kielwood blank and if possible have the cue maker of your current playing cue finish it with the taper that you are already familiar with and know you like so that the only thing different is the wood (of course use the same tip and same ferrule and joint collar material you are used to as well etc). For the same reasons I would also pair it with the current butt you use so everything is an apples to apples comparison outside the shaft wood, and the other obvious benefit of having the blank finished is they can of course match your ring work as well. If you go that route where everything but the shaft wood is kept the same I would be interested in hearing your thoughts about what differences you perceive once you have played it some.

Yep, I own Cuesmith Deluxe and have 9 or 10 new maple blanks sitting in the garage waiting to be turned. I was literally just out there 5 minutes ago starting the process of replacing the ferrule. Once I'm comfortable using the taper bar to my specs (which I will practice on some pine/fir first) I will then begin looking at kielwood.

It might be a bit because I've got a ton of other things before that happens (non-lathe related) so don't hold your breath :) I'm shooting for spring, at the latest, to get started on my own work that needs to be done.
 

Chili Palmer

funking idiot
Silver Member
What kind was it? I ask because all the cf shafts by major players i've tried were less deflecting than solid maple. The only one that was as bad or worse was made by a small ind. shop. Can't remember the maker but the guy just bought some tubes and finished them. It was pretty bad actually.

Meucci, it was summer/fall of 2019 at the APA Nationals. I had been curious about them for a while and I have tendency to use a bit of English once in a while, so I kind of knew what I was looking for and some straight line tests had more squirt then my current cue at the time (a 2016 Ned Morris with a 12.75mm shaft) and it was definitely worse than my Huebler that I have played with since the mid 90's. That shaft is around 12.7 just below the ferrule. I tend to prefer a thinner shaft which clearly helps with deflection. Either way, I played a few racks of 9B and I was missing via the opposite side of whatever English I was using, i.e. if using inside English I would overcut, etc. I was able to make the adjustment but not consistently, again, 2 racks of 9B.

I'm sure I could adjust if I truly wanted to and I'm sure there are better CF shafts now but I decided at that point I wasn't impressed with the new stuff. If you haven't noticed, I can be a bit particular ;)
 

MattPoland

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Don't know about drunk but definitely un-informed and stubborn.
I guess anyone can grab snippets of marketing text for a product, grab one of its stupidest statements, and try to use that to get on a soapbox to bash the product. How non-productive that approach is one thing. The other thing is just the level of outlandish incredulity he puts into it. Hard to picture what else drives someone to that place. There’s plenty of discussions on shafts but this one thing suddenly warrants its own thread for some reason.

I mean, I get it. The fact that Kirkwood is also used in musical instruments really doesn’t have a bearing on its performance as a shaft. Highlighting “harmonic” or “tonal” qualities is gimmicky at best and nonsensical overall. But any levelheaded view of the topic should be able to see a discussion about the actual product really should be focused on the things that matter. But again, I figured I’d give him the benefit of the doubt that alcohol fueled the desire to rant. Because the alternative isn’t a better look.
 

chenjy9

Well-known member
I picked up a CF shaft a Vegas trade show a couple of years back and hit some balls, nope, not low deflection, was missing ALL the long shots and most of the short ones, by way of deflection. Put the cue down and vowed to never own one, not saying they're not perfect for some but they aren't for me.
Was it from whammo57?
 

buckshotshoey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I guess anyone can grab snippets of marketing text for a product, grab one of its stupidest statements, and try to use that to get on a soapbox to bash the product. How non-productive that approach is one thing. The other thing is just the level of outlandish incredulity he puts into it. Hard to picture what else drives someone to that place. There’s plenty of discussions on shafts but this one thing suddenly warrants its own thread for some reason.

I mean, I get it. The fact that Kirkwood is also used in musical instruments really doesn’t have a bearing on its performance as a shaft. Highlighting “harmonic” or “tonal” qualities is gimmicky at best and nonsensical overall. But any levelheaded view of the topic should be able to see a discussion about the actual product really should be focused on the things that matter. But again, I figured I’d give him the benefit of the doubt that alcohol fueled the desire to rant. Because the alternative isn’t a better look.
Not necessarily true. How many times have you heard someone here saying they like the sound (or tonal quality) of how a shaft hits. They dont like some carbon fiber shafts because they lack the feel (feedback) and sound (feedback) of maple.

A cue shaft has harmonic qualities. Or the frequency and amplitude of the vibration. Which in turn alters the sound.

It may not affect the play of a cue (or maybe it will), but it certainly alters the users perception of said cue.
 

rharm

Registered
How are you testing for deflection?
I agree. The cf shafts he tried must have been pretty bad. I've tested about 6-8 and all have been less defl. than maple. Some were way less. The 11.8 Cynergy is the least dfl. shaft that i've ever hit. I have hit a couple made by small individual shops that were about same as maple but all the major names were less deflecting.
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
How are you testing for deflection?
I shoot cb straight into middle diamond on end rail like most of the vids you see. Use about a tip-and-half of english. Most of the cf shafts i've tried are roughly the width of a chalk cube away from center. Standard maple ranges from twice that to almost a whole diamond of squirt. I shoot from about 1/2 table away and hit it fairly firm. Lowest deflecting shafts i've tried this way are the Cynergy 11.8 and Mezz Ignite. Both were less than a chalk's width. Pretty impressive to me.
 
Top