Kevin Trudeau, the ITP, and us Common Folks

PoolSleuth

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Kevin Trudeau, the IPT, and us Common Folks

Well I watched the Loree Jon Jones and Mike Siegel IPT Match last night for the second time on my DVR.

the entire experience kind of reminded me a little of the WWE with all the special effect and hoopla.

So I ask those of you who are NOT Professional Pool Players what, or how do you think in the long term the IPT will help Pool in general.

Personally if the IPT make Pool a Spectator Sport verses a Participation Sport that is a bad thing for Pool IMO.

Plus will some of the moneys the IPT is generating, or projected to generate filter down to the common folks.

Last will the IPT eventually over power, task over, and make the BCA & APA disappear.

Know Kevin Trudeau love 8 Ball, but what are his L O N G Term Plans for Pool?
 
Last edited:
PoolSleuth said:
[...]
Last will the ITP eventually over power, task over, and make the BCA & APA disappear.

Know Kevin Trudeau love 8 Ball, but what are his L O N G Term Plans for Pool?

My attitude has been that there's no real danger in letting it play out--giving it the benefit of the doubt--and hope something good happens. My fear is that there's more danger to that than I realized.

Here's an example. In Minnesota there were a few years ago a variety of mechanisms by which players around the region learned about tournaments, etc. --magazine, phone calls, flyers at pool rooms, league operators... It wasn't great but more or less got the job done. Then somebody put together a bang-up website with tournament calendars, results, discussion forum, lots of participation. After a few years, the bottom fell out of the website for some reason. No big deal, you might think. We've still got all those other mechanisms. But no, they more or less dried up *because* there was so much use and support of the website.

My fear here--and I hope I'm wrong-- is that we will wake up in a few years and realize this has not been good--and then when we try to revert to the inadequate stuff we had, we'll find it's dried up.

Here is a frightening but well written article from the Washington Post (posted in RSB) about our self-appointed leader.

mike page
fargo
**************************

Kevin Trudeau's 'Natural Cures,' Swallowed by Millions Without A
Prescription

By Libby Copeland
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, October 23, 2005; D01



NEW YORK

On this, our lucky day, Kevin Trudeau is introducing us to his personal
electromagnetic chaos eliminator.

Trudeau, who has sold millions of books by touting the curative
properties of things such as magnetic toe rings and crocodile protein
peptide, believes the sole thing keeping his brain from being
"microwaved from the inside out" by cell phones and radio waves is this
electromagnetic whatever. We are intrigued.

"Would you like to see this magical device?"

Boy, would we!

On a publicity tour in the suite of a midtown hotel room, Trudeau
unbuttons his fine white dress shirt.

This seems like a good time to note how extremely well-dressed Kevin
Trudeau is, in the fine tradition of TV salesmen and televangelists.
Over the dress shirt is a butter-colored tie that precisely matches the
pocket square tucked into his luxury Brioni suit. He wears alligator
shoes. On his left wrist is a Rolex Masterpiece dripping with diamonds,
and on his right ring finger is a rock so big a child could choke on
it.

Over the years, Trudeau, an ex-con who never went to college or medical
school, has been remarkably successful doing infomercials for
everything from how to achieve a photographic memory to how to cure
your addictions to how to beat cancer by ingesting a particular type of
calcium that, as fate would have it, he also happened to sell.

Now he sells the most popular nonfiction book in the country, according
to Publishers Weekly. In "Natural Cures 'They' Don't Want You to Know
About," Trudeau explains how a massive cabal formed of the federal
government, pharmaceutical companies and the media is keeping Americans
from living well past 100. He advises everybody to get off prescription
drugs, even if they have serious problems like diabetes or blood clots;
he reveals how multiple sclerosis can be cured by magnetic mattress
pads.

He says sunscreen doesn't prevent skin cancer. Instead (wait for it),
sunscreen causes skin cancer.

But back to the microwaved-brain problem. Trudeau parts his shirt and
reveals a necklace with a disk of metal hanging on it. Glory of
glories! So flimsy, yet so powerful. This is the vaunted
electromagnetic chaos eliminator. It is called a Q-Link, and for a
while lots of celebrities were supposedly into it, before they joined
the Kabbalah bracelet craze.

Beneath the Q-Link is another necklace with a black triangle pendant.
This is yet another electromagnetic chaos eliminator, and we stop
Trudeau as he's closing his shirt and ask him about it. Trudeau says
he's not sure exactly what it's made of or what it does; supposedly it
offers some sort of balancing "vibration." He's just trying it out to
see if it works, he says, sounding a little sheepish.

"The guy who sent it to me is kinda way out there," he says.

Enemas and More Enemas

Trudeau's publishing company -- which he happens to have founded --
says he's sold 4 million copies of "Natural Cures," many of them
through phone orders. While those numbers can't be verified, his sales
through traditional outlets have been astonishing -- so far he's spent
16 weeks on the New York Times bestseller list.

For those who want to save their $29.95, here are the secrets to health
the government is keeping from you, according to Trudeau:

Get an electromagnetic chaos eliminator. Do some "bioenergetic
synchronization." Give yourself some enemas, and then give yourself
some more enemas. Wear white, for positive energy. Don't use a
microwave or an electric tumble dryer or fluorescent lights or
artificial sweeteners; don't dry-clean your clothes or use swimming
pools or eat pork. Don't use deodorant (causes cancer) or nonstick
cookware (causes cancer) or watch the news (stress alters your body's
pH, which can make you get cancer). Remove the metal fillings from your
mouth, and you're all set!

Trudeau's "Natural Cures" also references several helpful Web sites.
One claims that if you stare into the sun every day while barefoot, you
won't need food anymore. Another sells an instrument that looks rather
like an index card but which promises to open a "temporal and spatial
gate" that "enables an individual's entire etheric system to interface
with a very large, complicated, partially automated, predefined healing
process."

Lastly, if you have depression, Trudeau writes, stop taking your
medication and by all means stop seeing doctors, who can't be trusted.
Rather, go for a long stroll outside every day and "look far away as
you walk."

If that fails, the book advises you to try Scientology.

>From Kirstie to Mikhail

Trudeau is a remarkable American success story in the grand tradition
of traveling salesmen with cure-all potions. He could sell you your own
shirt and leave you grateful for the bargain.

When he talks, his hazel eyes get big and he taps his listener on the
knee. He claims he knows important people in important places. He says
he was just on the phone with Kirstie Alley. He says he met Mikhail
Gorbachev, "fascinating guy."

He's a victim. He's a martyr. He's just trying to help his fellow man.
He hasn't been sick in 25 years and he's going to stay healthy till 150
and he might run for president one day because "there's 25 million
people that would probably vote for me."

He is like a magician; you're watching his hands and all of a sudden
there's some confetti and a woman in a bathing suit and when you look
back, lo and behold, there's a dove. When you ask Trudeau over and over
for proof of his "natural cures," he says his studies are unpublished;
he says he doesn't believe in studies; he says the studies are in the
book -- but they're not there. They're never there.

Watch the hands.

He does an infomercial with Tammy Faye Bakker Messner and manages to
seem utterly reasonable.

He makes the credit-card fraud and larceny he committed in his twenties
sound like no big deal.

Trudeau, who now lives in Ojai, Calif., east of Santa Barbara, grew up
near Boston. He says his dad was a welder and his mom a housewife. He
went to his first Amway meeting at 15, and there learned he wanted to
be "financially free." He started a mail-order business, which he says
netted him a $1 million profit by the time he was 18.

After high school he sold cars, then joined the seminar circuit,
offering techniques to help people improve their memories. It was
during this period that he says he got caught up in the fast life and
making money. In 1990, he pleaded guilty to depositing $80,000 in
worthless checks. In the sentencing memorandum, prosecutors said he
impersonated a doctor when he met with bank officials. Trudeau says he
served fewer than 30 days.

In 1991, he pleaded guilty to obtaining and fraudulently using 11
credit cards and served close to two years in federal prison.

Trudeau, now 42, has several explanations for his crimes: They were
youthful indiscretions and not as bad as they sound, and besides, both
were partly the fault of other people, and besides, he has changed. The
larceny he explains as a series of math errors compounded by the
"mistake" of a bank official. As for why the bank thought he was a
doctor, that was just a simple misunderstanding, because he jokingly
referred to himself as a "doctor in memory."

He still can't quite believe he was prosecuted. "Give me a break," he
says.

The fraud he says he committed because he paid a bill late, which led
to American Express giving him a bad credit rating, which just wasn't
right. After that, no one would give him a credit card, which was
"insane," so he had little choice but to apply for cards with fake
Social Security numbers.

******* continued in a reply post
 
mikepage said:
The fraud he says he committed because he paid a bill late, which led
to American Express giving him a bad credit rating, which just wasn't
right. After that, no one would give him a credit card, which was
"insane," so he had little choice but to apply for cards with fake
Social Security numbers.

******* continued in a reply post

continuation of Washngton Post article on Trudeau....


According to officials at the time, Trudeau also misappropriated for
his own use credit card numbers belonging to customers who'd signed up
for his memory improvement courses. The man formerly known as "Mr. Mega
Memory" says he doesn't think he did that, but adds that was a "very
blurry time in my history with all the stress."

He calls that prosecution "outrageous" and says American Express and
the prosecutor had it in for him, rather like he believes the federal
government has it in for him now.

"It was a sad day because I remember walking into the courtroom and
above the courtroom it says these words which are completely untrue:
'Hall of Justice,' " Trudeau says, relaxing in the hotel suite with
fresh fruit and magnetic water nearby. "And I thought, 'This is not the
Hall of Justice because this is not justice. This should say 'Hall of
the Technicalities of the Law.' Where's the justice? Where's King
Solomon? But I said, 'Y'know, I've been focused on making money and
what I did was wrong -- even though it wasn't a heinous crime and I
could justify it nine different ways.' "

In any case, in prison "everything got reprioritized," and Trudeau says
he decided to stop focusing on money. He became buddies with a visiting
Lubavitch rabbi. He decided to try out being Jewish (he'd gone to
Catholic schools) and found out about "corruption in the Department of
Justice" when he had difficulty getting kosher food.

He decided his new mission was to help people. (The Jewish thing didn't
last.)

'One of the Best Salespeople'

In prison on the West Coast, Trudeau hooked up with a fellow inmate
named Jules Leib, who was in for attempted distribution of cocaine. He
gave Leib some self-help books. When they got out, they went into
business together, making infomercials and selling health products as
distributors for an Amway-type multilevel marketing company called
Nutrition for Life. Right away the trouble started.

David Bertrand, the former president of Nutrition for Life, remembers
Trudeau listening to motivational tapes "incessantly." He says Trudeau
was "brilliant" and "one of the best salespeople I've ever known," and
recalls that in 1996 the company nearly tripled its sales in large part
because of Trudeau. The man could sell because he seemed to really
believe in what he was saying, Bertrand says, but he repeatedly took it
too far.

Bertrand says he became concerned that Trudeau was making overly
optimistic promises to potential distributors about how much profit
they could make. "We had a number of conferences where we asked him to
cool it," Bertrand says. "It scared us."

At one point, Bertrand says, he learned that Trudeau had promised free
trips to entice people to sign up as distributors. The trips never
materialized, there were complaints, and Nutrition for Life had to step
in, says Bertrand, and fund a weekend cruise for thousands of people.

"At the time he made the promise he fully intended to comply," Bertrand
says. "He always intends to but he kind of gets carried away in his
exuberance."

In 1996, the state of Illinois sued Trudeau and Leib, accusing them of
operating an illegal pyramid scheme. The men wound up settling with
Illinois and seven other states after agreeing to change their tactics.
Trudeau and Leib split up, though Leib still speaks fondly of the
former "life coach" who introduced him to the magic of multilevel
marketing.

"He's probably one of the brightest guys you'll ever meet," says Leib.
"He gave me Anthony Robbins's 'Awaken the Giant Within.' " (Later, Leib
encourages a reporter to try supplements. "I'm on this great liquid,"
he says.)

In 1998, Trudeau paid half a million dollars to settle a Federal Trade
Commission complaint that several infomercials he helped create were
false and misleading. The products included a "hair farming system"
that -- according to the infomercial -- was supposed to "finally end
baldness in the human race," and "a breakthrough that in 60 seconds can
eliminate" addictions, purportedly discovered when a certain "Dr.
Callahan" was "studying quantum physics."

In 2003, the FTC came after Trudeau again. The complaint and a separate
contempt action centered on two products, one of which, Coral Calcium
Supreme, was being billed as a cure for cancer, according to the FTC.
Trudeau's guest on the infomercial, a man named Robert Barefoot, went
so far as to claim that in cultures that consume a lot of calcium,
people are so healthy "they don't even have children until they're in
their seventies when they're mature enough to handle kids."

This time, said FTC attorney Heather Hippsley, the settlement was
"unprecedented" in its scope. In addition to paying $2 million (in part
by handing over his $180,000 Mercedes Benz), Trudeau agreed not to do
any more infomercials selling products or services. The only thing he
would be permitted to sell on-air was "informational publications," and
he has greater leeway with what he can say in those because of his
right to free speech.

Hence, the book.

Trudeau points out that his settlements were not admissions of
wrongdoing. His attorney, David Bradford, suggests that the terms of
the most recent settlement weren't terribly punitive -- indeed, this
was a direction Trudeau wanted to take anyway.

"Trudeau had made an independent decision that he really wanted to
focus on being an author and consumer advocate," Bradford says.

Still, in his book, Trudeau claims repeatedly that he's the victim of
censorship. He likens the government to the Gestapo. He compares
himself to Rosa Parks and Gandhi. He says because of "this FTC
suppression" he can't recommend specific products to cure his readers'
illnesses.

However, he says, readers can join his Web site. For just $9.99 a month
or $499 for a lifetime, they can gain access to the special
members-only section, and there they can e-mail him and he'll reveal
his secrets.

'They Know That I Know'

Trudeau says he has considerable proof of the conspiracy working
against the health of the citizens of this nation, but the nation will
have to take it on faith. He says there are "government agencies" and
"entire industries" that are spending "billions of dollars" to keep
people sick so they can continue to make money. He says he has Nobel
Prize winners as informants.

"I can't mention their names," he says. "There's a lot of insiders that
I know, that are friends of mine, but I can't mention their names
because one of the reasons why I was capable of writing this book was I
have so many insiders that give me the information. . . . And this is
why everyone in Washington is frightened to death, and that's why the
government is trying to shut me up. Because they know that I know. They
know I've been in the meetings. You know what it's like? It's kind of
like I've got the black book with everyone's names. And they know: This
guy starts naming names, it's going to be out of control."

Readers will have to trust that Trudeau knows of a doctor who found a
cure for AIDS, and that another doctor "discovered a serum that
virtually made cancer tumors vanish in 90 minutes" but "was completely
shut down by the FDA." Trudeau never names these doctors. He says
"researchers have concluded that speaking the correct form of words and
thinking the correct thoughts actually changes a person's DNA," but he
never reveals who these researchers are.

Readers will have to take it on faith that Trudeau will soon be putting
proceeds from the book and the Web site into nonprofit groups dedicated
to teaching natural remedies and suing the government. They'll have to
trust that they don't really need medications their doctors have
prescribed and that the supplements they're ordering over the Internet
will work.

They'll also have to ignore the places where Trudeau stretches the
truth: What appears to be a back cover endorsement from a former FDA
commissioner is actually a 35-year-old quote. Quotes inside are
purportedly from Bill Gates in a television interview, but Trudeau puts
more words in Gates's mouth. ("I paraphrased," Trudeau says.)

Trudeau's book appeals to a nation that has been disillusioned by
managed health care, by rushed and impersonal doctors, by diseases that
didn't use to be diseases except these days everything has a name and a
pill to go with it. Ask your doctor if it's right for you.

Those who report success with Trudeau's book say they're discovering
that they've been overmedicated. They've cut down on this or that drug
for this or that minor problem and discovered they never needed it.
They've tried the book's most conservative recommendations -- eating
organic foods, taking supplements, cutting out sodas -- and write in to
say they've lost weight. Few appear to be curing their muscular
dystrophy, or reporting success with magnetic toe rings.

Some people post angry reviews on Amazon.com, saying they feel "ripped
off" and "gullible" for buying "Natural Cures."

Some vacillate.

"It's a scary step to take," says Joyce Nuuhiwa, 61, who lives in
Honolulu and has Type 2 diabetes. Nuuhiwa has read Trudeau's book, and
she's considering quitting both her medications and trying a
combination of herbs that Trudeau advises. (He writes in the book that
this diabetes "cure" was discovered at the University of Calgary, but
officials there say they've never discovered any such thing.)

Nuuhiwa is disappointed by what her doctor said -- that the disease is
progressive, that eventually she'll have to be on insulin. She wants to
believe the diabetes is reversible, and frankly, she doesn't trust
everything doctors tell her. She suspects, for example, that there's
already a cure for cancer, that Trudeau is right about the conspiracy.
But she's not sure if he's right about her diabetes.

She says there's something "slick" about him that makes her uneasy.

"If I could be assured that he's totally honest I would be diving into
this, but this is my life I'm talking about," she says.

He is slick, but somehow likable, too. He curses and does voice
imitations. He is attractive, if not handsome, and people say he's
popular with the ladies. He says he has a girlfriend who's almost 20
years younger; she's a student and part-time model.

He says he lives out his healthy living convictions. He says he
recently got back from an ashram. He says he carries a shower filter
with him wherever he goes, to eliminate the fluoride and chlorine he
considers poisonous. After a few hours with Trudeau, you think maybe
it's not all just a show. Maybe he really believes he's offering cures.
Then he says this about that funny-looking necklace he wears, the
electromagnetic chaos eliminator:

"If it doesn't work, what's the harm?"

He reveals that when he was young he used to perform magic tricks at
kids' birthday parties.

Watch the hands.

"Kevin wouldn't allow us to have Equal in the office," says Janine
Contursi, who briefly dated Trudeau in the 1980s and then worked for
him in the '90s. She remembers that once, when she worked for him, she
threw out her back, and Trudeau spent "thousands of dollars" to send
her to an alternative health clinic. There, she was offered tips on
positive thinking.

Her back did get better, she says. But it could have been because of
the chiropractors.
 
PoolSleuth said:
Well I watched the Loree Jon Jones and Mike Siegel ITP Match last night for the second time on my DVR.

the entire experience kind of reminded me a little of the WWE with all the special effect and hoopla.

Yeah, I thought it was a lot of jive too, but if it works I guess it's better for pool to grow than maintain its "dignity".

So I ask those of you who are NOT Professional Pool Players

Well I definitely qualify for that group. <lol>

what, or how do you think in the long term the ITP will help Pool in general.

I think in the long term the IPT will prove to be a flash in the pan, having no long term effect on pool whatsoever. I hope I'm wrong and it has a good effect.

Personally if the ITP make Pool a Spectator Sport verses a Participation Sport that is a bad thing for Pool IMO.

Plus will some of the moneys the ITP is generating, or projected to generate filter down to the common folks.

NO!!!!!
Last will the ITP eventually over power, task over, and make the BCA & APA disappear.

Absolutely not, the IPT offers the common amatuer nothing at all except pool on TV and if one is good enough something to aspire to. APA will always thrive as long as there are bars with pool tables. BCA has evolved to a trade organization which is also a different playground than the IPT.

Know Kevin Trudeau love 8 Ball, but what are his L O N G Term Plans for Pool?

JMHO, KT's long term plan is to make himself money which is okay. If there is a long term benefit for pool it will be a side effect.

In general I don't like KT nor his style in presenting this tour. What I do like is the money he is bringing in (for now at least) and any notice pool gets.
 
That's all crap....

I have his book and nowhere in it does he say anything about magnets or staring into the sun. This is someone taking crap way out of context that is obviously stuck in modern paradigms.
 
I think this will help pool like the poker tournaments helped poker. Before TV showed the poker tournaments the poker rooms in Vegas were being shut down. People will see the big payoffs and will start to play pool. The winners will be the suppliers and pool halls. There may also be more local tournaments with better payoffs and hopefully a bunch of bad players to give the rest of us a chance to win some money.

Everbody will be happy except for the people that got in it to make the big fast easy money because they will find out it is not easy and have wasted a lot of their time because they never were interested in the sport.
 
Jaden said:
I have his book and nowhere in it does he say anything about magnets or staring into the sun. This is someone taking crap way out of context that is obviously stuck in modern paradigms.

If you read the article with any degee of attention... The magnets reference was not to the book, but to cures of this ilk. The staring into the sun reference was on a website that Kevin provides a link to on his site.
The article is not all crap, KT is all crap. He is either dillusional, paranoid, and just plain crackers, or the ultimate con-man, or a combination of the two.

Don't be fooled about this guy just because he MAY be doing something good for pool. His book may be shortening the lives of gullible people, but that's okay it's their fault for being gullible, right?
 
I do admire one thing about KT. He has a great idea in making his website a subscription type of site. You see, there is no money in selling a product. What you need to sell is a subscription based service. Microsoft I believe will shift to this paradigm over the next few years, selling subscriptions to their OS software as well as their office products. The problem lies in that their are hundreds of thousands of computers that are not connected to the Internet, but that's a problem for Microsoft to solve. KT on the other hand has people convinced they need to come and subscribe to his website to unlock additional information not found in his book about the wonderful cures and good advice for a healthy life. I think it is all a great idea, but I swear it sounds just like a snake oil salesman. But the arguement would be, the salesman has to feed his family right? I see it as a moral vs. responsibility issue. How can a fellow make money without seeming dishonest? My answer is to pick a new way of doing business, but it seems this all KT really knows. Oh well...I personally won't buy the snake oil, and I will just have to wait and see like everyone else as to how he effects our little pool world.

Shorty
 
mikepage said:
(SNIP)

Here is a frightening but well written article from the Washington Post (posted in RSB) about our self-appointed leader.

mike page
fargo
**************************

Kevin Trudeau's 'Natural Cures,' Swallowed by Millions Without A
Prescription

By Libby Copeland
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, October 23, 2005; D01



NEW YORK

"...This seems like a good time to note how extremely well-dressed Kevin
Trudeau is, in the fine tradition of TV salesmen and televangelists...."


(SNIP)

Thanks for the article, Mike.

The above quote tells me that this writer (Libby) is also using trickery to attempt to place Kevin in a certain negative category: non-sequiturs. Using the connection that his wearing of clothing that is similar to televangelists as a fair comparison of the twos' character is dishonest and sets the stage for the rest of the article. And the article's subtitle, "without a prescription" implies that prescriptions are the best, or only way, to judge efficacy of medicine, which definitely isn't the case. This makes the Post article suspect right off the bat in my mind.

I'm reading Kevin's book right now. So far, a lot of what he says is correct, but I'd like to see some specific footnotes. He has a chapter that tells the reader where to find more info. on the specifics, but wading through all that costly info isn't on my agenda at the moment.

Having been in the nutrition business for 25 years and having been involved in libertarian politics for the same amount of time, lets me see Kevin in perhaps a more objective light than most here. He is dead-on when he talks about how the govt. is killing people with unjust legal actions against innocent providers and buyers of products and services. I've researched this over the years and the evidence is overwhelming on this subject. Literally MILLIONS have died early because of this interference. MILLIONS.

He is NOT dead-on when he claims "cures" for diseases, anymore than are some of the "respectable" doctors and scientists who make similar claims. The body is one complicated machine and simplistic answers for "cures" are rarely available. Sometimes, but rarely. He does say that there are no outside cures; only the body can cure itself, if given the right stuff. But even this isn't always correct, imho.

One example is my mother. She was deadly sick for 6 months and none of the six doctors had a clue. A dietician suggested mom's problem was a niacin (a B vitamin) deficiency and that she start a good nutrition program. (practicing med without a license!!!!) Within 2 weeks she was "cured." By the vitamins? Can't prove that causation, but nothing else was changed but diet. My OPINION is mom was "cured" by niacin. Later research by us showed that her type of problem was first diagnosed in the 1800's and was "cured" back then by foods with high amounts of niacin. The doctors told her she just got better on her own, that diet couldn't have possibly have helped. The thing that bothered me most about them was their TOTAL disinterest in mom's "cure." They didn't give a sh*t about it and did NOT want to even hear about it. Some of them were even hostile for mom suggesting such a thing, for gawd's sake!!! :mad: I feel sorry for any other patients who went to them with problems.

So doctors and the govt. don't know it all...they can't...no one can. And that's one point that Kevin hits on the head: If doctors and the govt can't possibly know it all, then they shouldn't use gun-backed force to prevent the dissemination of knowledge and OPINIONS about health. But they do...with a vengance. And they do use "legitimate" media, such as the Wash Post, to help spread their biases and create doubt about alternatives.

Just trying to help us (Kevin, too) all stay honest in our thinking,

Jeff Livingston
 
As far as all this holistic-type blah-blah, I don't think it has anything to do with his involvement with pool...

Let's just give him the benefit of the doubt that he is TRULY devoted to pool and not looking for some new goldmine...If he is, well at least the pool industry has some of his cash....^.^
________
 
Last edited:
chefjeff said:
Thanks for the article, Mike.

The above quote tells me that this writer (Libby) is also using trickery to attempt to place Kevin in a certain negative category: non-sequiturs. Using the connection that his wearing of clothing that is similar to televangelists as a fair comparison of the twos' character is dishonest and sets the stage for the rest of the article. And the article's subtitle, "without a prescription" implies that prescriptions are the best, or only way, to judge efficacy of medicine, which definitely isn't the case. This makes the Post article suspect right off the bat in my mind.

I'm reading Kevin's book right now. So far, a lot of what he says is correct, but I'd like to see some specific footnotes. He has a chapter that tells the reader where to find more info. on the specifics, but wading through all that costly info isn't on my agenda at the moment.

Having been in the nutrition business for 25 years and having been involved in libertarian politics for the same amount of time, lets me see Kevin in perhaps a more objective light than most here. He is dead-on when he talks about how the govt. is killing people with unjust legal actions against innocent providers and buyers of products and services. I've researched this over the years and the evidence is overwhelming on this subject. Literally MILLIONS have died early because of this interference. MILLIONS.

He is NOT dead-on when he claims "cures" for diseases, anymore than are some of the "respectable" doctors and scientists who make similar claims. The body is one complicated machine and simplistic answers for "cures" are rarely available. Sometimes, but rarely. He does say that there are no outside cures; only the body can cure itself, if given the right stuff. But even this isn't always correct, imho.

One example is my mother. She was deadly sick for 6 months and none of the six doctors had a clue. A dietician suggested mom's problem was a niacin (a B vitamin) deficiency and that she start a good nutrition program. (practicing med without a license!!!!) Within 2 weeks she was "cured." By the vitamins? Can't prove that causation, but nothing else was changed but diet. My OPINION is mom was "cured" by niacin. Later research by us showed that her type of problem was first diagnosed in the 1800's and was "cured" back then by foods with high amounts of niacin. The doctors told her she just got better on her own, that diet couldn't have possibly have helped. The thing that bothered me most about them was their TOTAL disinterest in mom's "cure." They didn't give a sh*t about it and did NOT want to even hear about it. Some of them were even hostile for mom suggesting such a thing, for gawd's sake!!! :mad: I feel sorry for any other patients who went to them with problems.

So doctors and the govt. don't know it all...they can't...no one can. And that's one point that Kevin hits on the head: If doctors and the govt can't possibly know it all, then they shouldn't use gun-backed force to prevent the dissemination of knowledge and OPINIONS about health. But they do...with a vengance. And they do use "legitimate" media, such as the Wash Post, to help spread their biases and create doubt about alternatives.

Just trying to help us (Kevin, too) all stay honest in our thinking,

Jeff Livingston


Even though I am not a fan of people like KT the artical was not objective and the writer had an agenda.
 
chefjeff said:
Thanks for the article, Mike.

The above quote tells me that this writer (Libby) is also using trickery to attempt to place Kevin in a certain negative category: non-sequiturs. Using the connection that his wearing of clothing that is similar to televangelists as a fair comparison of the twos' character is dishonest and sets the stage for the rest of the article. And the article's subtitle, "without a prescription" implies that prescriptions are the best, or only way, to judge efficacy of medicine, which definitely isn't the case. This makes the Post article suspect right off the bat in my mind.

I'm reading Kevin's book right now. So far, a lot of what he says is correct, but I'd like to see some specific footnotes. He has a chapter that tells the reader where to find more info. on the specifics, but wading through all that costly info isn't on my agenda at the moment.

Having been in the nutrition business for 25 years and having been involved in libertarian politics for the same amount of time, lets me see Kevin in perhaps a more objective light than most here. He is dead-on when he talks about how the govt. is killing people with unjust legal actions against innocent providers and buyers of products and services. I've researched this over the years and the evidence is overwhelming on this subject. Literally MILLIONS have died early because of this interference. MILLIONS.

He is NOT dead-on when he claims "cures" for diseases, anymore than are some of the "respectable" doctors and scientists who make similar claims. The body is one complicated machine and simplistic answers for "cures" are rarely available. Sometimes, but rarely. He does say that there are no outside cures; only the body can cure itself, if given the right stuff. But even this isn't always correct, imho.

One example is my mother. She was deadly sick for 6 months and none of the six doctors had a clue. A dietician suggested mom's problem was a niacin (a B vitamin) deficiency and that she start a good nutrition program. (practicing med without a license!!!!) Within 2 weeks she was "cured." By the vitamins? Can't prove that causation, but nothing else was changed but diet. My OPINION is mom was "cured" by niacin. Later research by us showed that her type of problem was first diagnosed in the 1800's and was "cured" back then by foods with high amounts of niacin. The doctors told her she just got better on her own, that diet couldn't have possibly have helped. The thing that bothered me most about them was their TOTAL disinterest in mom's "cure." They didn't give a sh*t about it and did NOT want to even hear about it. Some of them were even hostile for mom suggesting such a thing, for gawd's sake!!! :mad: I feel sorry for any other patients who went to them with problems.

So doctors and the govt. don't know it all...they can't...no one can. And that's one point that Kevin hits on the head: If doctors and the govt can't possibly know it all, then they shouldn't use gun-backed force to prevent the dissemination of knowledge and OPINIONS about health. But they do...with a vengance. And they do use "legitimate" media, such as the Wash Post, to help spread their biases and create doubt about alternatives.

Just trying to help us (Kevin, too) all stay honest in our thinking,

Jeff Livingston
I'm 100% on the same page....surprise surprise:D

I don't expect KT to get everything right re-cures. I have his book but haven't read it all yet. But the fact that he was awakened many people's critical judgments about modern medical practices is a great contribution I feel.
 
macguy said:
Even though I am not a fan of people like KT the artical was not objective and the writer had an agenda.
Yes, it was a hatchet-job from the get go. Good to see you your objectiveness here. I know that doesn't mean you've jumped on the bandwagon yet though:)
 
Colin Colenso said:
Yes, it was a hatchet-job from the get go. Good to see you your objectiveness here. I know that doesn't mean you've jumped on the bandwagon yet though:)

hatchet-job thats the word I was trying to think of. Every news person thinks they are Jimmy Olson looking for the big scoop. I have no use for those people. I never talk to news people even when they act like they are on my side. I was facing racketeering charges some years ago I got raked over pretty good. Of course when nothing came of it you didn't read anything. My wife's family thought she had married Al Capone.
 
Good post

chefjeff said:
Thanks for the article, Mike.

The above quote tells me that this writer (Libby) is also using trickery to attempt to place Kevin in a certain negative category: non-sequiturs. Using the connection that his wearing of clothing that is similar to televangelists as a fair comparison of the twos' character is dishonest and sets the stage for the rest of the article. And the article's subtitle, "without a prescription" implies that prescriptions are the best, or only way, to judge efficacy of medicine, which definitely isn't the case. This makes the Post article suspect right off the bat in my mind.

I'm reading Kevin's book right now. So far, a lot of what he says is correct, but I'd like to see some specific footnotes. He has a chapter that tells the reader where to find more info. on the specifics, but wading through all that costly info isn't on my agenda at the moment.

Having been in the nutrition business for 25 years and having been involved in libertarian politics for the same amount of time, lets me see Kevin in perhaps a more objective light than most here. He is dead-on when he talks about how the govt. is killing people with unjust legal actions against innocent providers and buyers of products and services. I've researched this over the years and the evidence is overwhelming on this subject. Literally MILLIONS have died early because of this interference. MILLIONS.

He is NOT dead-on when he claims "cures" for diseases, anymore than are some of the "respectable" doctors and scientists who make similar claims. The body is one complicated machine and simplistic answers for "cures" are rarely available. Sometimes, but rarely. He does say that there are no outside cures; only the body can cure itself, if given the right stuff. But even this isn't always correct, imho.

One example is my mother. She was deadly sick for 6 months and none of the six doctors had a clue. A dietician suggested mom's problem was a niacin (a B vitamin) deficiency and that she start a good nutrition program. (practicing med without a license!!!!) Within 2 weeks she was "cured." By the vitamins? Can't prove that causation, but nothing else was changed but diet. My OPINION is mom was "cured" by niacin. Later research by us showed that her type of problem was first diagnosed in the 1800's and was "cured" back then by foods with high amounts of niacin. The doctors told her she just got better on her own, that diet couldn't have possibly have helped. The thing that bothered me most about them was their TOTAL disinterest in mom's "cure." They didn't give a sh*t about it and did NOT want to even hear about it. Some of them were even hostile for mom suggesting such a thing, for gawd's sake!!! :mad: I feel sorry for any other patients who went to them with problems.

So doctors and the govt. don't know it all...they can't...no one can. And that's one point that Kevin hits on the head: If doctors and the govt can't possibly know it all, then they shouldn't use gun-backed force to prevent the dissemination of knowledge and OPINIONS about health. But they do...with a vengance. And they do use "legitimate" media, such as the Wash Post, to help spread their biases and create doubt about alternatives.

Just trying to help us (Kevin, too) all stay honest in our thinking,

Jeff Livingston


Jeff... Our government wastes millions and millions of dollars on grants
for studies that have no legitimate basis or benefits to our society.
The errors of the government would take up more space than is available
to detail out here. I have worked for a pharmeceutical company before,
and have experienced firsthand how they conduct their research, and how
much money they waste trying to get a new drug approved by the FDA,
which takes 6 years normally. I have also explored other areas in my 20's
mostly that would probably be considered faith based things, like Edgar Cayce's life in the book, There is a River by Thomas Surgue, who 'cured'
people with 'natural' ingredients, or even Nostradamus, a French physician,
who cured 2 cases of the Black Plague when no cures were available. Or
even the case of Steve McQueen who was suppose to die from cancer, but
went to Europe, went the diet and holistic type treatments and lived 3 years
past his 'death' date. You can simply dismiss these if you want, but I can
not. I went through a winshield head first 15 years ago, and was treated
by doctors although I experienced ongoing back, shoulder, and neck problems.
I ended up going to a chiropractor, which wasn't considered too much of
legitimate thing to do back then, and after extensive treatment, he was able
to restore my health and strength back to my body. I just saying that the
answers to a problem are not always the obivious one you would consider.
Some of the radical experimental treatments or surgies could be considered
way out on the edge type treatments for something too. We all have a
brain, and we must make our own decisions, no matter who we are dealing
with. Yes, KT has a questionable past, but so did Joseph Kennedy and his
father before him. KT knows he is under a microscope, and any hint of
impropriety will have people jumping ship, but maybe, just maybe, he has
found a purpose which he believes in and wants to do right. He would not
be the first wealthy person in history to do so as they get older.
 
showboat said:
As far as all this holistic-type blah-blah, I don't think it has anything to do with his involvement with pool...

Let's just give him the benefit of the doubt that he is TRULY devoted to pool and not looking for some new goldmine...If he is, well at least the pool industry has some of his cash....^.^
I think Kevin does have an interest in pool, but more importantly that he can see a goldmine. And that's a good thing I believe.

There could be billions to be made from the sport if he puts it together right. Check out the money in F1, Golf, Tennis,Nascar, Soccer. He could eventually dominate the entire billiard industry, and I don't doubt he can sell this stuff better and in much larger amounts that current businesses.

Imagine licensing or OEM branding of all types of billiard related equipment, merchandising, video and book sales and potentially TV broadcasting rights.

Not to mention a franchise of hundreds of elite billiard clubs across the world, or perhaps thousands, each pulling in 1 million in annual profits.

I heard the APA more than doubled its membership in the year after the Color of Money hit the screens. That's some indication of what major exposure can do for clubs and equipment sales.

I'm sure he is considering developing as many branches as possible to best benefit from the positive externalities the IPT will create through increasing exposure.

The fact that he's planning for over 25 million in prizemoney, with more than 10 million$ plus events worldwide in 2008 shows he has big plans, that require big returns to be worth the risk.
 
To the gentleman that said Doctors don't know everthing...you have NO IDEA HOW RIGHT YOU ARE!

The only thing worst than a doctor is the insurance companies. Here is a for instance. This story is going to be long, so please bear with me for a bit. Everyone in my family has a brittle bone disease called Osteogenesis Imperfecta, or OI for short. It affects each of us in different ways and different degrees of brittleness. I am the most severe, being a type III. I have literally broken every bone in my body at one time or another, but nothing now since 2001. To read more about it, you can visit http://www.oif.org/. Anyway, they have a new drug that has been out for several years called pamidronate. It is a biophosphate that slows down the cell production on the outer layer of the bone cells which in turn makes the bones harder and more dense. It really works well in young children and some research has been done with very good results in adults as well. My wife really wanted to go on this drug. We are able to get my step-son, age 5 on it this past summer and he is doing REALLY well with it. You look at this kid and he looks and acts very very normal. He runs, jumps, plays and falls down...just scratchs himself up and has quite normal bumps and bruises. He has had 2 treatments so far and we have really seen a change in him. It costs about 300-400 per dose even with insurance every 12 weeks. My wife, on the other hand, can not get our damn insurance to cover her...so I assume they would not cover me for this as well. We have given them every piece of proof they need to pay for this, but they still say it is too experimental in adults, yet they pay for my son's treatments just fine thank goodness. My wife really could use this is the sad thing. She has alot more aches and pains than I do...she really is more active and broke a femur in 2003 as a matter of fact, so she is still prone to breaking bones. I just can't afford the 3k plus a treatment for her, else we would do it in a NY minute. The funny thing is this, if I didn't have a job, I think medicaid would pay for it no problem. Yet another reason for me NOT to work.

The point though is, doctors and yes, even insurance companies, are dead WRONG! They don't have all the answers. I look at them as merely consultants, and the choice of what I do is ultimately left up to me for my healthcare and medical needs. That is the way everyone should approach their health I believe. I truly believe nobody can know your own body quite the way you can.

Shorty
 
Colin Colenso said:
...
The fact that he's planning for over 25 million in prizemoney, with more than 10 million$ plus events worldwide in 2008 shows he has big plans, that require big returns to be worth the risk.

Having plans is easy, bringing them to fruition is the hard part. We'll see what we see in 2008.
 
wow. a lot of railing against the establishment here, but not much discussion of what Kevin Trudeau can or will do for pool.

Leaving aside everybody's emotional vindictivness towards doctors and insurance companies, let's think about exactly what Kevin may be up to. With both Memory Magic and Natural Cures, Kevin has managed to get a little bit of money from a lot of people. He did it by looking the part of a respectable businessman/authority on the subject and sold things that either didn't work (memory) or promised things he didn't deliver (book). It's been noted many times that Natural Cures tries to get you to subscribe to the web site, which then tries to get you to sign up for the newsletter. None of them contain the information that you want, and it's always because "the government doesn't want you to know". Right.

So, with regards to pool, what has Kevin done? He has invested a little money (compared to what he has, remember) to get people excited about a new prospect. He has done a good job of surrounding himself with the right people (Mike, Deno) to project that he is really one of us (whatever "us" means). I'd be pretty sure that while people like Mike and Deno get to handle all the player selection, venue selection and setup, etc... ALL the money goes through Kevin. Why would that be the case?

I don't have any personal stake in this, so I'm just interested in seeing if a leopard can change his spots. For myself, I don't think so. I'm not waiting to see if Kevin does something, I'm waiting to see how and when.
 
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