Lets put an end to all the bashing threads, no one cares anyway.

manwon said:
Sorry friend but the system is tainted!!!!!!!:) You can check the comments and they can all be good, but you can still get burned.
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Sure you can, but it's still better than going into it blind.
MULLY
 
what a depressing thread/subject ... i see another thread went to the never never land :(
 
just some useless thoughts... no need to read... no need to know me...

does anybody really think that mike or mr. wilson are complicit characters in any of this?

does anybody think they spend (mike and mr. wilson) "their precious time" from "their precious lives" to see such difficulty on the best internet pool site in the world? do you think they are such fools? tell me you think so!!

i met mike with tony (bestkites) last april (i think) briefly (and even though i was banned at the time), he seemed very nice even while i made fun of him cause another Az'er was downgrading his game and i tagged along in fun. but i feel i know mr. wilson better, and personally i greatly admire him. okay, i know some of you don't really care that i admire him. but;

i do and will defend him, but i will not defend myself as to why i defend him. you are going to have to figure that out for yourselves, or not. i will not belittle you, i will not pull age/wisdom cards over you. i will only ask that you consider me, my heart, my caring about us all (if you know anything about me), and where ever that takes you after consideration, i will be there. good, bad or otherwise. but i stand with mr. wilson clearly and with honor. i greatly admire the man.

maybe you all will push me, but i do not think i need to say much more now than asking you to: PLEASE SHOW RESPECT..........:

for this site (particularly mr. wilson's directions) "and each other." is that so hard? does everybody have to push the envelope further and further towards disaster (for one or more)?

to we have to become a gang with a gang mentality: relentlessly pursue the perpetrator, and only to feel nourishment at the perpetrators extinction/death?

is that all we are: we have no other more important fight in this world today?

who can tell me, who can remember what "let's roll" means?

if not all of you, it is a damn shame.

and all we think about is a late-to-date cue.

i am weary of all of this. and i have nothing more,
smokey
 
Great Post

Poolplaya9 said:
I'm not so sure that they do care. Mr Varney has pulled this kind of crap for a couple of years now on this site and not only has he not been banned, but all they have done is give the appearance of continually supporting and defending him IMO. Every time we turn around Mr Varney is caught in more lies, more deceptive and fraudulent business practices, and more theft or attempted theft. Nothing is ever done, except to threaten those that complain about it, and cover it up by deleting or locking every thread that points out Mr Varney's misdeeds.

There is no doubt that they have been complicit, the only doubt is if their level of involvement goes beyond simply allowing it to continue IMO. Mr Varney has now accused them of basically being a partner in part of it. Mr Varney claims that the moderators of the site asked him to rush the completion of cincyman's cue ahead of the wait list in the hopes that the people who are complaining about his dishonest business ethics will quiet down and the situation would fade away.

Now everybody knows that you can't take Mr Varney's word for anything, but IF this is true, then not only has the staff at AzBilliards been failing to protect their members by turning a blind eye to his conduct, but it would IMO make them directly involved in helping to perpetuate his deception and fraud. If it is not true, then Mr Varney has lied yet again by accusing the moderators of being directly involved in his deception and fraud and also the attempts to cover it up.

There has to be a reason why AzBilliards is supporting him in the face of a long period of overwhelming evidence showing that he gets and maintains a lot of his business through the use of deception and fraud, that he threatens and bullies his customers when they rightfully complain, and that he tries to keep money that he is not legally entitled to (theft). I no longer think that their reason is to ensure that the member's get their cues, because he continues to take new orders from the members here and push them ahead of the waiting list (which he repeatedly promises he won't do), and it's going to be a never ending cycle. The mod's would have had to have figured that out by now.

The only thing I can think of, is that they spent so much time being fooled by and defending him, that now, even in the face of overwhelming evidence, they are attempting to save face by doing nothing, instead of doing the right thing and banning him which would in essence be an admission that they were wrong about him all along. Sometimes it's hard to admit when you were wrong.
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mullyman said:
I don't know, man, I don't think the iTrade is a joke at all. If I'm going to buy something from someone and I take a peek at their iTrader comments and see all good comments from people that I chat with on this forum and respect it gives me a bit of peace of mind to go through with the deal. On the other hand, if someone has a few bad comments then there's no way I'd deal with them. I don't see how you could dismiss the effectiveness of something like trader comments.

As for the reputation, I don't know, I think the people with a lot of good rep points is someone that I will take seriously when I'm reading their comments, whether I agree with them or not. I'm more apt to consider what that person is saying as opposed to someone that has a ton of posts and not such a good reputation.

As for people making bad deals known publicly I can tell you this. I wouldn't send Varney a dime. I've got nothing against him personally, I don't even know the guy, but there has been enough bad talk about him to make me steer clear of dealing with him.

It's never a problem when someone praises someone after a deal has gone smoothly and I think the same should apply for when a deal goes bad. The group needs to know about it.....especially if there are so many of them.
MULLY
just an opinion

By the way, Craig, I see you have 14 positive iTrader comments. Seeing that, and knowing you from the forums, I wouldn't hesitate to deal with you. Toss 2 or 3 bad ones in there though and I wouldn't even consider a deal.
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Good Post Mully.:thumbup:
 
I wasnt aware Varney had contributed money to advertising on AZ. For all the aggravation his antics have caused Admin I think he should though.
I thought aout it myself once. Thought about it laughed about it then forgot about it. No way in hell I would ever allow my product to be associated in any way whatsoever with this krap.
ShootingArts said:
I think varney put a few dollars into the site with advertising if I remember correctly. Not nearly enough to give Mike H a financial motive for any complicity in varney's actions. I think that Mike H is trying to keep a lid on things and help all of the members get their cues.
Hu
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Well, let's not blow this all out of proportion here. AZB is not going into the toilet. There are bashing threads out there... sure...but in my opinion, the persons being bashed truely deserve it.... and they know it. The bashing threads will stop when the members feel that the ass has truely been served. Contrary to what most think, bashing threads do serve some valid and useful purposes. For one, it makes known what an asshole a guy truely is. If it were just one post, then that's a mere opinion that can be argued.....but when it is supported by countless posts....then it becomes more fact. This is a form of punishment for the constant wrong-doings of the said asshole. Secondly, these bashing threads provide a potential customer with information about the cuemaker, should he care to do the research. This allows the customer to make an informed decision. If he chooses not to be informed, that's ok....but the customer takes the risk. If these bashing threads did not exist, then all customers lose the benefit of research.

That is why I don't agree with the moderators "deleting" the bashing threads. As depressing as they are, they do serve a useful function. Just imagine what the world would say if it were decided that all references to the holocaust were to be eliminated from all the historical books (if it were possible)? See? Thanks to the availability of research, we all know what an asshole Hitler truely was.....

Anyways, my 2 cents. And for the record, as a potential buyer of cues, I DO CARE.

Donald
 
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advertising income not a factor

TellsItLikeItIs said:
I wasnt aware Varney had contributed money to advertising on AZ. For all the aggravation his antics have caused Admin I think he should though.
I thought aout it myself once. Thought about it laughed about it then forgot about it. No way in hell I would ever allow my product to be associated in any way whatsoever with this krap.
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I was trying to answer a question and seem to remember varney had some banners at one time, I may be mistaken. I don't think for a minute that the past or any hope of future advertising has anything at all to do with how the powers that be for this site are dealing with the varney situation.

There is an old saying that the road to hell is paved with good intentions and I think this is true in this case for AZB. Their efforts to help with the mess have just allowed varney to keep it going longer and widen the cesspool sucking in new victims through this site.

I don't question the integrity or intentions of Mike, Dave or the other moderator(s) for a single moment. I do strongly question that they are achieving the desired result with the methods they are using now. Impossible to work with anyone when there is only good faith on one side and varney constantly shows that what he says and what he does are two different things. In my opinion the site's efforts to help has caused it to become part of the problem. As other posters get more and more indignent about the mess, the stench all over the forums grows and more and more otherwise good members run afoul of the ROE. Where does it end? I don't have a clue but there is no end in sight as long as the site management continues on the present course.

This is only my opinion and viewpoint of course, after watching this mess unfurl on these pages for long months now.

Hu
 
A combination of I-Trader testimonials and search results provides the strongest indicator as to whether or not to deal with one of our members. Any buyer not giving due diligence and researching these two tools provided to them before making a purchase is solely responsible for the outcome.

Tools used properly provide the desired results.
 
I-Trader is fairly new

I-Trader is fairly new so the ratings aren't an accurate reflection of long term dealings. Too, buyer/seller feedback is often tainted by the person's need to resolve issues or fear of retaliatory ratings and comments. Search is deceiving also when a major percentage of the issues were revealed in threads that were later deleted or locked from view.

Letting unscrupulous operators continue to use the site for dealings while saying "buyer beware" doesn't strike me as a reasonable position when the information on the site is deceptive for the reasons mentioned above and also because the search engine used for this site seems quirky at best. Searches fail to find posts that I can dig back through post history and find.

Hu


hangemhigh said:
A combination of I-Trader testimonials and search results provides the strongest indicator as to whether or not to deal with one of our members. Any buyer not giving due diligence and researching these two tools provided to them before making a purchase is solely responsible for the outcome.

Tools used properly provide the desired results.
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manwon;
I have reached a point with AZB where I am in it for the occasional learning experience and the rest is entertainment.Whether or not the buyer got what he deserved(Personally i think he should get a refund) is irrelevant.The buyer gets points from me for creativity regarding the other universe possibly containing rides.I have seen enough nonsense on AZB that I no longer take much of it seriously.When the forum passed on a racist making death threats rather then take the matter seriously I realized the problems of the world would remain unsolved here on AZB.
 
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manwon said:
Hello AZ, I think it time to put an end to all the threads that outlined bad business practices with forum members. I think it is the biggest waste of time that I have ever been involved with in my short life. I have thought about this a great deal, and why should anyone here really give a shit if some else gets taken advantage of. The powers to be don't!!:yikes: in fact it appears they have protected these individuals at every turn.;) So if they do not care enough to stop what has and is still going on, it certainly will never stop. With that said there is no reason to continue making these threads, I think if you get screwed you just have to suck it up and move on, BECAUSE THE FACTS ARE THE FACTS NO ONE CARES.:(

I am truly shocked that things have come to this here on AZ, but this Apple certainly has worms and they eating it from the inside out.

Oh and by the way, forum members still do business with these people and then whine when they get burned WHO CARES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Take care!!!
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Very well put! complain too loud and you might even get banned for it

the buy/sell transactoin sticky should be done away with too, since nobody's business practices matter anyway
 
hangemhigh said:
A combination of I-Trader testimonials and search results provides the strongest indicator as to whether or not to deal with one of our members. Any buyer not giving due diligence and researching these two tools provided to them before making a purchase is solely responsible for the outcome.

Tools used properly provide the desired results.
Click to expand...


research is hard to do when threads get deleted.
 
manwon said:
Hello AZ, I think it time to put an end to all the threads that outlined bad business practices with forum members. I think it is the biggest waste of time that I have ever been involved with in my short life. I have thought about this a great deal, and why should anyone here really give a shit if some else gets taken advantage of. The powers to be don't!!:yikes: in fact it appears they have protected these individuals at every turn.;) So if they do not care enough to stop what has and is still going on, it certainly will never stop. With that said there is no reason to continue making these threads, I think if you get screwed you just have to suck it up and move on, BECAUSE THE FACTS ARE THE FACTS NO ONE CARES.:(

I am truly shocked that things have come to this here on AZ, but this Apple certainly has worms and they eating it from the inside out.

Oh and by the way, forum members still do business with these people and then whine when they get burned WHO CARES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Take care!!!
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No one cares for your opinion either. What purpose does your thread have? This is a forum and if people want to post about what happened to them on here it is their right! People who want to warn others about dealings with certain people that is a good thing. As many others have always said, No one made you read the thread!!
 
AngryPanda said:
No one cares for your opinion either. What purpose does your thread have? This is a forum and if people want to post about what happened to them on here it is their right! People who want to warn others about dealings with certain people that is a good thing. As many others have always said, No one made you read the thread!!
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People who want to warn others about dealings with certain people that is a good thing. As many others have always said, No one made you read the thread!!

Thanks for you input, but you are also wrong, because while it is great that people warn others, if nothing is done to stop the Bad dealings what purpose is served. If people are deceptive, and dishonest and nothing is done about this behavior who is really served!!!!!!!!!:wink:
 
manwon said:
Hello AZ, I think it time to put an end to all the threads that outlined bad business practices with forum members. I think it is the biggest waste of time that I have ever been involved with in my short life. I have thought about this a great deal, and why should anyone here really give a shit if some else gets taken advantage of. The powers to be don't!!:yikes: in fact it appears they have protected these individuals at every turn.;) So if they do not care enough to stop what has and is still going on, it certainly will never stop. With that said there is no reason to continue making these threads, I think if you get screwed you just have to suck it up and move on, BECAUSE THE FACTS ARE THE FACTS NO ONE CARES.:(

I am truly shocked that things have come to this here on AZ, but this Apple certainly has worms and they eating it from the inside out.

Oh and by the way, forum members still do business with these people and then whine when they get burned WHO CARES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Take care!!!
Click to expand...


Well said !!!!

I support your motion 110%....





- Eddie Wheat
 
bashing is fun, especially behind the computer. people on here can bash all they want, and then hide. its part of the internet life...sad to say
 
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