Matchroom changing break rules for European Open (Aug 9-14 Germany)

Oze147

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The pros have gotten too good...
every player has and needs the full skill set.....

everyone is so good at everything that you can't have a strength strong enough to offset a deficit in another skill.
And that are the points I disagree with.

Just look at someone like Skylar.
Undoubtedly he is a very skilled player, who puts in a lot of work, but if he is as good as SVB, Filler or Albin, why hasn't he won as much as they have? Just bad luck?

The answer is, that there are a lot of good players, but only a handful of players, who really might be close to mastering the game.

But this, I guess, is the same in every other sport.
Federer, Nadal, Djokovic...you can argue, that they are the best players of all time and it might be boring to watch their perfection, but nobody would ever consider to make a change to the measurements of a tennis court or start changing the rules for serving.
 

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
What would the equivalent be? Win the lag and break and run every game without your opponent getting to the table? Or alternate breaks where they trade break and runs all the way through until the lag winner wins the final rack? Either one could be exciting once but if the series is geared towards that outcome it could also produce a lot of boring pool matches. The big packages are exciting when they aren't the norm.
I read it all the time about how so often, one player is basically denied a chance to win because the other is running rack after rack after rack. The thing is that, speaking as somebody who spends 40-50 days a year attending tournaments live, I just don't see this happening. In my 47 years attending pro events live, I've only seen more than a five pack on about four different occasions. As we've seen from At-Large's stats in the aftermath of matchups between the super-elite (e.g., SVB vs Orcullo) the very best still break and run in the 40%-50% range even when they're in their very best form. Only top players in great form manage more than 40% break and run stats and I'm not sure that's too high.

That said, your statement that the current winner breaks format has more blowouts than it would be with either alternate break or tougher playing conditions is incontrovertible. As you rightly point out, there's a tradeoff in play. How much back-and-forth play there should be is highly debatable, and your opinion matters every bit as much as mine. If you attend a pool or snooker tournament, however, what gets the fans most excited is when one player gains and maintains control of the table for a long stretch.

Has anyone thought about different cloth for the rails that doesn't play so slick but we could still have the typical cloth on the bed? I hear some people saying that older cloth plays tougher, but I think for appearances and table to table consistency fresh cloth is better. Right now they have tables that accept balls more than you would expect and they are tightening the pockets to offset that. Would larger pockets that play tougher be an improvement?
I've read many posters suggesting that the cloth may explain why equipment that looks tight is so often playing loose. Perhaps they are right, but I'm not knowledgeable on this matter, so I must defer to posters that understand such topics. If the cloth is having the effect of making conditions easier, that probably needs to be addressed.

Most of all, you can take a deep bow for a well-judged, well-presented and thought-provoking post .
 
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vapoolplayer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I could be wrong, but it might be cool if they use a few different rules like this at different times/matches.

As far as the “forceful”, I wouldn’t mind radar. It’s fairly cheap now. And it takes away the subjective nature of official’s discretion. Just don’t have official standing where the camera sees them. As casual viewers might be turned off by it.

Just for example:

Tournament A: Break box

Tournament B: forceful break

Tournament C: 9 on spot

Tournament D: anything goes. Soft break your heart out


Don’t release the break rules until the player check in or meeting.


Just tell them at beginning of season what break formats will be utilized for the year. Prepare accordingly.


This will give some variety, force players to be well rounded breaking, as well as let Matchroom collect data on different formats. They can use the data to get rid of, or add stuff down the line.
 

vapoolplayer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Also, with the radar gun, maybe it doesn’t turn off viewers.

It might be cool every brake for the speed to populate like a baseball game.

Even if you’re not using the speed for rule enforcement, I think it might be kinda cool for a viewer to see how fast it’s going.
 

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
Also, with the radar gun, maybe it doesn’t turn off viewers.

It might be cool every brake for the speed to populate like a baseball game.

Even if you’re not using the speed for rule enforcement, I think it might be kinda cool for a viewer to see how fast it’s going.
Interesting ideas for sure. Nice to see you on the forum again, my friend. Hope you're well.
 

Straightpool_99

I see dead balls
Silver Member
I would advocate giving this a try before we all jump on them. I like the fact that they are tweaking it to make a better product...my only hope is they zoom in on a final answer and stick to it and we are not talking about it two years from now. We wanted more more money and structure in the game...well here it comes. Lets not boil MR and Predator because it's now better than it's ever been. Hell maybe they will go back to traditional ball colors and then we won't have anything to complain about.

Food for thought. I like the forceful aspect of the rule. Going to a finite speed might have been a problem for some of the gals. Any man can achieve say 17 MPH. Some of the smaller gals. Not so much. Do we really want to see Corey's famous:
-Baby Break
-Safety Break
-Pattern early 9-Ball combo
-His next invention
Say what you will about Corey, but IMO he's the smartest and most innovative player in pool ever besides Efren. Watching him play pattern games like 8 ball on the bar box where he gets to use that creative brain, is an absolute joy. His stroke is in the top even among the very elite. Even with all his titles, he probably could have won a lot more. But yeah, that soft break with early combo is a game killer.
 
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sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
Say what you will about Corey, but IMO he's the smartest and most innovative player in pool ever besides Efren. Watching him play pattern games like 8 ball on the bar box where he gets to use that creative brain, is an absolute joy. His stroke is in the top even among the very elite. Even with all his titles, he probably could have won a lot more. But yeah, that soft break with early combo is a game killer.
Well said! Corey is, indeed, as innovative a player as we've ever seen in our sport. Only names like Reyes and Varner are even in the same conversation in that regard.
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
Frankly I wouldn't bother with the break itself and just move away from the winner break format.

Ya ya... but "everyone" loves seeing large packages put together. Of course "everyone" doesn't actually include everyone...lol

"Breaking the serve" of a great server, or watching someone fighting to hold their serve against a great server, is entertainment. The almighty SVB can still enjoy the fruits of his labour with the normal 9 ball break set up, but his opponent gets a chance at the table to showcase his own skills. In the random circumstances a SVB loses control and gets a bad roll or even fouls on his break. Then the tension builds as to whether or not the weaker server can grab the advantage.

Give me alternate break at the pro level any day
 

decent dennis

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
How about racking the one ball somewhere other than up front and not on the wing?
Only shot you dont have to hit lowest ball first.
 

buckshotshoey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Also, with the radar gun, maybe it doesn’t turn off viewers.

It might be cool every brake for the speed to populate like a baseball game.

Even if you’re not using the speed for rule enforcement, I think it might be kinda cool for a viewer to see how fast it’s going.
Doesn't even have to be an expensive radar gun. There are many apps that use the sound transmitted through the table (in which sound travels faster then through the air) that cost next to nothing that are just as accurate as a radar gun.
 

buckshotshoey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Say what you will about Corey, but IMO he's the smartest and most innovative player in pool ever besides Efren. Watching him play pattern games like 8 ball on the bar box where he gets to use that creative brain, is an absolute joy. His stroke is in the top even among the very elite. Even with all his titles, he probably could have won a lot more. But yeah, that soft break with early combo is a game killer.
Didn't pattern racking have something to do with the early 9 combos?

I remember players bitching about that at the time. I think they were just mad because they didn't think of it first.
 

soyale

Active member
Didn't pattern racking have something to do with the early 9 combos?

I remember players bitching about that at the time. I think they were just mad because they didn't think of it first.
there are also a couple instances of him back then trying to soft break for an entire set without ever getting it to work. He gets steamrolled on those occasions.

soft breaking is not the instant win that we like to pretend it is in these discussions
 

buckshotshoey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
there are also a couple instances of him back then trying to soft break for an entire set without ever getting it to work. He gets steamrolled on those occasions.

soft breaking is not the instant win that we like to pretend it is in these discussions
Agreed.
 

CaptainBly

Registered
I know many here won't agree with me, no problem, I'm used to that.
I think the pros should play 15 ball rotation. Easy to understand as its still make all the balls in order. However it would be way more challenging, more tactical and more kicking.
When a runout happens it will mean much more and be a whole lot more exciting. Unfortunately 9 ball is boring to watch now. The only thing that makes Matchroom watchable is the announcers and the camera work. Other than that its just not a great game to watch.
Pool, at least in its current formation, is a participant sport not a spectator sport.
 

soyale

Active member
I know many here won't agree with me, no problem, I'm used to that.
I think the pros should play 15 ball rotation. Easy to understand as its still make all the balls in order. However it would be way more challenging, more tactical and more kicking.
When a runout happens it will mean much more and be a whole lot more exciting. Unfortunately 9 ball is boring to watch now. The only thing that makes Matchroom watchable is the announcers and the camera work. Other than that its just not a great game to watch.
Pool, at least in its current formation, is a participant sport not a spectator sport.

have you watched much rotation? Theres not a huge amount available on youtube, but what is there is pretty dry stuff. While i personally love rotation pool, I disagree that rotation would improve the spectator aspect.
 

Straightpool_99

I see dead balls
Silver Member
Didn't pattern racking have something to do with the early 9 combos?

I remember players bitching about that at the time. I think they were just mad because they didn't think of it first.
It was i his US open win, early 2000s. For some reason they didn't use the rule that 4 balls must hit the. Cushions. When Corey broke, the pack barely opened and the second ball would frequently be frozen to the 9 or nearly so, making it dead in the corner. Many short racks, the lower the number of the second ball, the shorter the rack would last. It didn't happen every time.
 
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Scratch85

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
It may be my limited abilities but 9 on the spot with a template rack seems like a very simple solution.

Every rack should be a tight rack. The one ball is the only reliable ball to make and it requires a cut break with force and is much more difficult than the one and wing with 1 on the spot. Rarely would the breaker make 3 or 4 balls, leaving an easy 5 or 6 ball runout. The random racking order makes your second ball’s position mostly unknown. The push out leaves an option for the more difficult break. The game still looks the same with this minor change. Winner breaks or alternate break shouldn’t make a lot of difference with 9 on the spot.

I also don’t think the game is too easy for the pros. However the only time I lose interest is when a table is breaking so well, players are left with a 5 ball runout. Then it becomes boring and makes the consequence of one bad kick too much.

All that being said, I love what Matchroom is doing. For 50+ years, I was starved for professional pool viewing. This is the best viewing availability in my lifetime.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

soyale

Active member
By utilizing the Break Box, what is MR trying to accomplish? What's their motivation?
in a recent video emily had jayson shaw demonstrate a few breaks for her, 1 on the spot, 9 on the spot, break box, no box, so she could try to “understand.”

Theres your answer. They dont understand
 
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