Materials and labor charges.

realkingcobra

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
My question to all mechanics is this. When you price a job for recovering a pool table, do you separate the difference between labor and materiels on your invoice? And if so, do you make money on your labor as well as the cost of cloth? If you price the cost of the cloth, do you base it on the cut price, or the half bolt price? When ever I recover a table, I state my labor charge, then add cloth is extra. My cost of cloth is your cost of cloth, meaning that Diamond charges $229.00 for a 9ft cut of Simonis 860 Tour Blue, so that's what the customer pays, as I don't mark up the cloth for an additional profit...do you?

Glen
 
question

I charge the customer retail on cloth. Some times i make money and some times i do not. If the customer buys it from some one else they are more than likely going to pay reail. Why should i not make money on the cloth?
Thanks, Ron
 
realkingcobra said:
My question to all mechanics is this. When you price a job for recovering a pool table, do you separate the difference between labor and materiels on your invoice? And if so, do you make money on your labor as well as the cost of cloth? If you price the cost of the cloth, do you base it on the cut price, or the half bolt price? When ever I recover a table, I state my labor charge, then add cloth is extra. My cost of cloth is your cost of cloth, meaning that Diamond charges $229.00 for a 9ft cut of Simonis 860 Tour Blue, so that's what the customer pays, as I don't mark up the cloth for an additional profit...do you? Glen
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Psst, the new MAP retail price is $251 for 9' Simonis.
$229 being the old price that anyone could get by shopping online.
It would not speak highly of an installer that charged more to get a larger profit on the cloth
since the customer can easily purchase it online at many sites.

When I do tables I charge our advertised price for the cloth
and quote a separate labor charge.

I deal with installers around the country and they do the same - or
they have the customer buy the cloth directly and have it available at install time.
 
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On my invoices I list all materials and labor and the total but I dont designate the prices for any of them.

I dont see a need or ever had a request to break it down seperately. Most of the time it works out better for me and it should.
 
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realkingcobra said:
hmmm...I must have touched on a tricky subject with this thread as no one has said anything yet;) Glen
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Dunno about that but I'm sure some buyers feel they should get cloth for cost.
Any Simonis cloth sold at MAP assures a reasonable profit to whoever sells it (installer or retailer).
 
In any service industry I know of, all bills are broken down in parts and labor. Just wondering how many technicians would question the cost of changing the oil in their vehicle if the technician padded the cost of the oil, plus the labor for changing it. I'm not saying someone's not making money on the cloth, but how many people are suppose to make a profit on that rip of cloth. You already have the manufacture making a profit, the distributor making a profit, the retailer making a profit...and the technicians making a profit as well...plus labor? I sell my labor, and won't back down on it, if the cost of cloth is to high, I can't get the job, so I don't get paid, unless I discount the cost of cloth, or offer another make of cloth that is cheaper to the consumer. I guess what I'm saying is if you're in sales....you're in sales, if you're in service, you're selling labor. If I buy a half bolt of cloth, I sell it by the cut price, I then feel I'm entitled to make a profit on the cloth because I spent MY money to buy more cloth than the job required, therefor locking up my money in that cloth in order to get a wholesale price on a retail product. But to take a retail priced product, and mark that price up even more in order to make more money to me seems to be like double dipping the customer. Why not charge more for your labor if you want to make more...or by cloth by the half/full bolts, to create a profitable spread between wholesale and retail, that you can honestly make a profit from. Here in Vegas, I've checked on the cost of Simonis for a 9ft, and it seems like the going price is around $340.00 a rip, I wouldn't pay that kind of money for Simonis to recover someones pool table, I just wouldn't, and then mark it up as well:)

Glen
 
6 of one - half dozen of the other

realkingcobra said:
I don't mark up the cloth for an additional profit...do you?

Glen
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If you make enough on the labor I guess you could give away the cloth & misc materials & supplies. Or If you charge enough for the cloth you could install it for free!!:rolleyes:

By the way Glen, IMHO everybody is in sales... You are either selling your merchandise, your services or your ideas. Everybody is selling somebody something.
 
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tsp&b said:
If you make enough on the labor I guess you could give away the cloth & misc materials & supplies. Or If you charge enough for the cloth you could install it for free!!:rolleyes:
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How true:D I get more jobs defending the cost of my labor than I do explaining the high cost of cloth. I use the cost of cloth to get my jobs, by not marking up the cost of the cloth, but not discounting my labor...I'm worth the labor rates I charge and won't give away my skills, and all my customers know and understand that. If I ever have a customer complain about the cost of recovering their pool table, the complaint is about the cost of the cloth, NOT my labor;)

So, my comments are..."I saved you as much as I could on the cloth to get you a good deal, but I still charged you this amount for my work"

Glen
 
tsp&b said:
If you make enough on the labor I guess you could give away the cloth & misc materials & supplies. Or If you charge enough for the cloth you could install it for free!!:rolleyes:

By the way Glen, IMHO everybody is in sales... You are either selling your merchandise, your services or your ideas. Everybody is selling somebody something.
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You're right, it's all about perception...:D

Glen
 
Not a mechanic, but I will note that when I needed a new sump pump in a hurry, a plumber stuck me with nearly a 100% mark-up on parts alone. That's outrageous (but it beats a wet basement).

If I go to a non-dealership mechanic, or have some other work done that requires parts, I think a 10-15% markup above their acquisition cost is reasonable. I would think that would hold for pool table work as well.
 
Everybody wants a discount period on no matter what you quote them....

I charge a dismantle fee and a reassembly fee with original cloth, $150 for new cloth a call it a rug and $275 for worseted or Simonis If I know you as a friend you get it @ cost if not I knock a little off or tell them to order it themselves give them a couple of numbers or websites and order it themselves. They never do they dont want to wait or pay shipping on it, so I nock off $40 to use mine and charge an extra $20 for any color other then green since I only stock a few colors in high $ worseted wool cloth.

The one thing I dont charge but I might start is a fuel surcharge or $2.00 a mile past 20 miles I cover around 200 miles oneway not alot but I do travel for the love of the game and knowing thier not getting a hack.

I am never to firm on price i fudge numbers all the time quote them high on worst case scenerio pockets rubber cloth cracked slates broken bolts this way I can find out more about the table and carry those type of extra parts just in case this way I dont have to drive back to the shop get extra's and go back out 80 miles to install new pockets I have them already the truck fully stocked. Now I have a 16 foot enclosed trailer loaded with work bench, lathe and padded storage boxes to protect rails while in transit You know the rest I am now a full sevice tech that still cant spell...lol
 
When having a table redone the only price i'd be concerned with is the finished price.

LWW
 
Dartman said:
Where are your going with this thread?
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I guess I'm going in the direction that if cloth keeps going up in price, and it will, it's leaving less and less room for technicians to charge for their labor, for the work they do. I'd much rather work a deal with whomever I buy my cloth from to kick back the difference between retail and wholesale for getting my business as an installer to pick up them few extra bucks, and protect my labor rates. If and when the price of cloth goes up so much, I can sit back and say...hey, I don't have anything to do with the price of cloth, I just install it and this is what I charge. I think one of the worst things that can happen is if you quote a customer one price of installing Simonis cloth on a table which includes labor and cloth, then the customer asks you...well, how much is the cloth...and you try and pass it off as say $300.00 for cloth and $200.00 for labor, when in fact the cloth cost you say $166.00. You were looking to make $334.00 in all reality when the job was done....but then the home owner says, well, OK....come and recover my table then for $200.00....BECAUSE....I have my own Simonis cloth!!!!!!!!!...You just got screwed!!! That's my whole point. I'm not shy about saying...Labor is $350.00...plus the cost of cloth...YOURS...OR....MINE!

Glen

Doing it this way opens the door to being able to ask the cloth distributors....what's my kick back if I install YOUR cloth....because so and so is offering me...such and such to install their cloth!!!!!!!!! after the install!!!
 
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internet sales is going to start biting all you technicians in the butt sooner or later, trust me. Going are the days when the end user had no idea where to purchase cloth for their pool table at home. Now days, and building up more and more everyday...home owners are starting to purchase their own cloth first...then looking to find someone to install it. If I start getting calls from home owners in the future as I can see it coming, I'm going to want to know what kind of cloth it is, and who they bought it from...because my next call is going to be to the seller of the cloth and it'll be along these lines....yo buddy, you sold some cloth to so and so to recover their home table, and when you did that...you cut me out of the picture of making any extra money on the side...so, unless you're willing to kick back some of that money...why should I buy any more cloth from you??? Because now you're playing BOTH sides of the fence...selling to me, AND selling to the home owner, except when the retailer sells to the homeowner direct...I'm cut out!!!:D Think about it;)

Glen
 
I don't know what markup is in the pool industry but I used to be in the clothing business and I know that average markup is 50% of the retail price... or a $50 shirt cost the store $25.

I think the mechanic needs to charge 50% markup on parts and a labor charge that gives him a reasonable hourly rate for his skilled and hard work. I'd expect to pay that sort of charge.
 
JimS said:
I don't know what markup is in the pool industry but I used to be in the clothing business and I know that average markup is 50% of the retail price... or a $50 shirt cost the store $25.

I think the mechanic needs to charge 50% markup on parts and a labor charge that gives him a reasonable hourly rate for his skilled and hard work. I'd expect to pay that sort of charge.
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I understand what you're saying Jim, but if I went down to the local retail store and picked up some Simonis for $340 marked it up to $510 then charge my $350 for labor...would you really be willing to pay $840 to have your table recovered by me?;) As say opposed to say Simonis $250 labor $350...total $600 then a kick back of $85 from Simonis making my profits $435! It's a better deal for you, and I don't feel so bad about the cost of cloth then:D

Glen
 
realkingcobra said:
when the retailer sells to the homeowner direct...I'm cut out!!!:D Think about it;) Glen
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And when the mechanic sells to the homeowner the retailer is cut out.
Now I'm not saying that as an argument.
You have the right idea - your labor charge is $x whether they supply the cloth or buy it from you as you stated -

realkingcobra said:
I'm not shy about saying...Labor is $350.00...plus the cost of cloth...YOURS...OR....MINE!
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Approaching pricing this way will always maintain your labor rate regardless of the going price for cloth.
If they want to get a hack to install it for $200 then that's their choice. They get the service quality they pay for like anything else.
 
I am suprised people are asking you to unwrap your bid! I give a single
price for the job and thats that! If they want to supply there own material
i would deduct my cost of the material off.

If people are shopping, whats the difference between higher labor
or higher cost of material. They want the total job done at the
best price! You can ask for any price you want, doesnt mean we
will get it. We have to know the market we are in and price accordingly.
 
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