measuring the balance point

[justabrake]

this has come up a couple of times to me about a balance point on a cue and I don't understand how a dealer can say it this way saying the balance point is measured from the wrap how can you measure from the wrap when the wrap could be anywhere on a cue , how come they just don't measure from the backend or the joint of the cue to where it balances out , why from the wrap, it doesn't make sence.


Steven

 

[mjantti]

this has come up a couple of times to me about a balance point on a cue and I don't understand how a dealer can say it this way saying the balance point is measured from the wrap how can you measure from the wrap when the wrap could be anywhere on a cue , how come they just don't measure from the backend or the joint of the cue to where it balances out , why from the wrap, it doesn't make sence.


Steven

I have never seen balance point being told measuring from the wrap, usually it's measured from the bumper.

 

[justabrake]

I couldn't figure it out either because when I check my best playing cues for a balance point i put my finger where it balances and i take a measurement from the buttend to the point of balance.

now i asked 2 different dealers about the balance points of there cues and here is ones reply with the email I don't seem to have the other i must of deleted it

Steven, I believe the cue balances out about 1.75" above the top of the wrap.

 

[blud]

balance points

Good day to all,
Balance points differ from each cue maker. There is no set balance point to go by, or compare to another cue. A quailty cue maker will balance his or her cue to what he or she feels is best for there cue.
Changing weight bolts in the butt of the cue, changes the balance point as well as the way the cue reacts when stricking the cue ball.
I build my cues to the customers weight, he or she desires.
I balance my cues with a little forward balance, so it's easier to draw or apply top english, with much less effort than some other brands of cues.
This subject is in some ways, as if someone ask, "how does your cue hit"?

All cues hit differantly, and the player is the only one to judge that, because we all have a differance in touch and feel.It stricks me funny when someone ask, HOW DOES YOUR CUE HIT????...........YOUR THE ONLY ONE TO BE THE JUDGE OF THE HIT.
blud

 

[macguy]

Good day to all,
Balance points differ from each cue maker. There is no set balance point to go by, or compare to another cue. A quailty cue maker will balance his or her cue to what he or she feels is best for there cue.
Changing weight bolts in the butt of the cue, changes the balance point as well as the way the cue reacts when stricking the cue ball.
I build my cues to the customers weight, he or she desires.
I balance my cues with a little forward balance, so it's easier to draw or apply top english, with much less effort than some other brands of cues.
This subject is in some ways, as if someone ask, "how does your cue hit"?

All cues hit differantly, and the player is the only one to judge that, because we all have a differance in touch and feel.It stricks me funny when someone ask, HOW DOES YOUR CUE HIT????...........YOUR THE ONLY ONE TO BE THE JUDGE OF THE HIT.
blud

But if someone asks you what the balance point is, how do you express it? From the butt end, or relating to the wrap? For someone to say relating to the wrap, it assums I know where the front of the wrap is and that can be different on different cues. I.E. A 12 inch wrap and a 4 1/2 inch butt sleeve or a 12 inch wrap and a 3 1/2 butt sleeve. The term from the front of the warp loses it's meaning since this can be different.

 

[drivermaker]

But if someone asks you what the balance point is, how do you express it? From the butt end, or relating to the wrap? For someone to say relating to the wrap, it assums I know where the front of the wrap is and that can be different on different cues. I.E. A 12 inch wrap and a 4 1/2 inch butt sleeve or a 12 inch wrap and a 3 1/2 butt sleeve. The term from the front of the warp loses it's meaning since this can be different.

That is correct. X number of inches from the wrap is meaningless, however many cuemakers in the blue book even refer to it that way. That's not what I want to know or hear. The only thing with meaning in order to compare apples to apples is, what's the balance point on the cue from the end of the butt cap. However an overlength or underlength cue can also skew that.

 

[macguy]

That is correct. X number of inches from the wrap is meaningless, however many cuemakers in the blue book even refer to it that way. That's not what I want to know or hear. The only thing with meaning in order to compare apples to apples is, what's the balance point on the cue from the end of the butt cap. However an overlength or underlength cue can also skew that.

Really, the balance point measured from the tip has more meaning since the part of the cue you play with is the part from you grip to the tip. What is behind you grip doesn't really matter. You could be playing with a 57 or a 59 inch cue. If the balance was the same from the tip the cues should feel pretty much the same balance wise.

 

[cueman]

When they say 1.5" from the wrap they are assuming a 12" forearm. That does not always hold true, but as a general rule among production cues you will find the wrap starts 12" from the joint. So on most production cues saying, 1.5" from the wrap makes sense. That is how I feel it started. That is easier for the average person to estimate by looking at the cue than saying, 10.5" from the joint, or 18.5" from the end of the cue would be.
Chris
www.hightowercues.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com

 

[Arnot Wadsworth]

Good day to all,
Balance points differ from each cue maker. There is no set balance point to go by, or compare to another cue. A quailty cue maker will balance his or her cue to what he or she feels is best for there cue.
Changing weight bolts in the butt of the cue, changes the balance point as well as the way the cue reacts when stricking the cue ball.
I build my cues to the customers weight, he or she desires.
I balance my cues with a little forward balance, so it's easier to draw or apply top english, with much less effort than some other brands of cues.
This subject is in some ways, as if someone ask, "how does your cue hit"?

All cues hit differantly, and the player is the only one to judge that, because we all have a differance in touch and feel.It stricks me funny when someone ask, HOW DOES YOUR CUE HIT????...........YOUR THE ONLY ONE TO BE THE JUDGE OF THE HIT.
blud

I agree with you - having a little forward weight helps to keep the tip in the ball or "through the ball".

I have hit with many of your cues and I think they hit great. Just my .01 cents worth being as I am a senior age cuemaker who is personally responsible for the sport of billiards to be dying. Of course being inflexible and close minded and intolerant of the younger generation negates any opinion I have.

I still love your shaft machine.

 

[justabrake]

Really, the balance point measured from the tip has more meaning since the part of the cue you play with is the part from you grip to the tip. What is behind you grip doesn't really matter. You could be playing with a 57 or a 59 inch cue. If the balance was the same from the tip the cues should feel pretty much the same balance wise.

OK-the reason I ask this question is because I took all my cues to the poolroom and shot all drawshots for awhile ( long draws) with each cue and then the ones that drew back the best is the most usefulness to me IMO and then I measured the balance point on these( 2 cues ) and they came up almost exatly alike so with this information I like to look for a cues balance point as the same, but when I ask 2 cue dealers they had come up with the measurmeants from the wrap up that didn't help me.

so this is why I asked what is the correct way to measure a balance point?

Steven

 

[drivermaker]

Really, the balance point measured from the tip has more meaning since the part of the cue you play with is the part from you grip to the tip. What is behind you grip doesn't really matter. You could be playing with a 57 or a 59 inch cue. If the balance was the same from the tip the cues should feel pretty much the same balance wise.

What cuemaker whether in the blue book or otherwise refers to the balance point in inches from tip to back? Now we're getting into the same problem as X inches from the wrap. Nobody lists it that way.

 

[blud]

machine

I agree with you - having a little forward weight helps to keep the tip in the ball or "through the ball".

I have hit with many of your cues and I think they hit great. Just my .01 cents worth being as I am a senior age cuemaker who is personally responsible for the sport of billiards to be dying. Of course being inflexible and close minded and intolerant of the younger generation negates any opinion I have.

I still love your shaft machine.

Thanks, arnie, I've got a new shaft machine coming out soon. It's simular to your, and it's full blown CNC...For the answer about where I measure from, it's from the butt of the cue, not including the bumper.
blud

 

[merylane]

OK-the reason I ask this question is because I took all my cues to the poolroom and shot all drawshots for awhile ( long draws) with each cue and then the ones that drew back the best is the most usefulness to me IMO and then I measured the balance point on these( 2 cues ) and they came up almost exatly alike so with this information I like to look for a cues balance point as the same, but when I ask 2 cue dealers they had come up with the measurmeants from the wrap up that didn't help me.

so this is why I asked what is the correct way to measure a balance point?

Steven

steve if you know what you like, just ask whoever your talking to to measure from the but and you'll be ok.

just remember too take in account the total length.
l

 

[macguy]

What cuemaker whether in the blue book or otherwise refers to the balance point in inches from tip to back? Now we're getting into the same problem as X inches from the wrap. Nobody lists it that way.

I know they don't, it just makes more sense if they did. The number would have more meaning by it's self without having to know how long the wrap is or how long the cue is or how long the butt sleeve is behind the wrap. It is a number that in it's self stands alone without a lot of other information needed and tells you the exact balance point of the cue as it relates to the tip and where you grip the cue. I use a cue balanced 39 1/2 inches from the tip. When I grab up a cue I hold it unconsciously where I feel I should. If it is not balanced the way I like, I have to adjust my grip or my bridge hand or when I address the ball my bridge hand and length of my bridge will be out of whack.

 

[RSB-Refugee]

What cuemaker whether in the blue book or otherwise refers to the balance point in inches from tip to back?

That is the way that Dennis Dieckman suggests balance points should be measured. If anyone has a blue book, look him up to see if he lists it that way.

Now we're getting into the same problem as X inches from the wrap.

X" from the wrap or butt are worthless, unless every cue were exactly the same length. From the tip has universal worth, no matter what the length.

Nobody lists it that way.

Maybe so, but it doesn't make it right. From the tip just makes good sense.

Tracy

 

[JoeyInCali]

I dunno why this is is such a complicated subject now. LOL
Jeesh, just measure from the bottom of the cue sans bumper with the cue jointed of course. Without the shaft, the butt should balance around the middle imo.

 

[RSB-Refugee]

I dunno why this is is such a complicated subject now. LOL
Jeesh, just measure from the bottom of the cue sans bumper with the cue jointed of course. Without the shaft, the butt should balance around the middle imo.

In a world called Perfect, where every player is the same size and every cue was too, you'd be 100% correct. Here on Earth however, cues are not all the same length and measuring from the business end makes a lot more sense. I don't expect the practice to change, but I will keep giving my $.02 whenever the subject arises.

Tracy

 

[Sheldon]

In a world called Perfect, where every player is the same size and every cue was too, you'd be 100% correct. Here on Earth however, cues are not all the same length and measuring from the business end makes a lot more sense. I don't expect the practice to change, but I will keep giving my $.02 whenever the subject arises.

You dismiss the fact that most people have the ability to calculate. If you are getting details like balance points, I would assume you would already have the lengths, and be able to figure where the balance point is, whether measured from the tip or the butt.
Measuring from the wrap is whacked, and should probably not be used. What if the cue is wrapless?

 

[Tiffpoolbum]

Since all wood has different density, different resonance...etc. Is the balance point expressed in terms of a length from the bumper really meaningful in terms of determining if a cue hits well?

Let me try to express myself a bit clearer here.

If I have two cues--one with an ebony forearm and one with a maple forearm, both built by the same guy with exact spec--will they feel the same if the balance points are both 19" from the butt.

On the other hand, if I have two cues, 18.5oz, and 19oz, but one has a 4.7 oz shaft, and one has a 4.2 oz shaft. What exactly does the number "19" from the butt" tells me? Can it be used as an indication of a good/bad balance?

Futhermore, if I have two cues both built with an ebony forearm--one piece of ebony is a bit denser than the one used on the other. So, these two cues will not have the same weight even thought they might look exactly the same. But is it to say that they cannot both be well balanced?

In addition, and this is the part that confuses me the most, a 19.5 oz cue with a 19"-from-the-butt balance point will be more butt heavy than a 17.5 oz cue with the same balance point; therefore, even if the balance point is useful in the determination of the balance, shouldn't it be expressed as a ratio to the weight?

Finally, some players hold the cue close to the middle of the wrap, others hold it all the way to the very end. What are the differences in their requirments for a cue with the best balance? Is 19" from the butt the best no matter where the player holds the cue? If not, what is the realtionship between the two? Or is there perhaps a better parameter to use in determinating the balance of a cue?

 

[RSB-Refugee]

You dismiss the fact that most people have the ability to calculate.

Yeah, I guess so. I know it is never going to change, but it really would make a lot more sense, at least to myself and two people that I know of. That is unless Macguy has changed his mind already.

Tracy