no reserve schon closing in 6 min and super cheap

spliced

You are right about 5 years ago went Cnc so I should state rounded pointd

NO BILL, Bob only makes spliced or razor sharp points, no cnc no rounded for at least the past 6 years. Again, I get my information directly from Bob. It's a fact.
 
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Referring To Eras Makes Complete Sense

I have a 1984 Schon ....now I know Runde made it because he was upset over having to make the cue twice and explained to me what he had to do the complete the first cue attempt....it was a custom design that he & I worked out at the Billiard show in Forth Worth, Texas. I don't think Evan Clarke was around in the inception years but be that as it may. Last year I bought a Schon LTD 1405 and boy is there a difference in the cue feel, hit and weight balance. I tried every which way to figure out why and every single person that's tried my two cues...and there's probably been more than 50 between my APA & BCA pool leagues and also my pool hall buddies.

Nary a one....not a single person picked the new Schon's overall feel & playability over the old Schon. Everyone...100% picked the old Schon to being "noticeably" better than the new Schon which many described as having a dead feel to it compared to the Schon Runde produced. Now someone said earlier that regardless of who made the cue, it's a beauty and someone got a great deal. Absolutely...hands down yes on that point.

And someone also pointed out the issue of cues made by era and the merit of even doing that. Well, cues deserve to be referred to by era becasue sometimes the cue maker alters or modifies their style. That's why there are three periods for referring to original Balabushka cues. Then there's Bill Stroud and period cues made from 1972 to 1980 during which time he used the logo J with sideways W. Cues from that period have a inherently higher price than the very same design cue made in a different period. The same is true for early Tim Scruggs cues and those that have the intertwined TS logo are worth more than the exact same design cue made with TS and the year.

There's reason for this.....it's simple...scarcity and the overall number of cues made during that time....how many hours that Bill Stroud or Tim Scruggs personally invested making the cue versus finishing it or supervising its manufacture. Mike Cocharn was a big help to Tim's cue business while he was still alive. Referring to cues by era or by period identifies the cue maker's benchmark and sometimes even hallmark workmanship which is reflected in the appearance and performance of the cues produced at that time. It can also differentiate manufacturing changes like when Stroud changed from 5/16-14 thread to a radial pin joint.

Nonetheless, I am convinced that while Bob Rundy was still actively involved in Schon, the cue made were superior to Schon cues made after he backed away from the business. I estimate that would mean cues made between 1981 and 1990. Bob retired from Schon in 1992 and his involvement was diminishing during the last year or so while he was still an owner. I haven't the foggiest idea when Evan Clarke cam eon the scene at Schon but I do know he's "extremely sensiitive" anytime Bob's name comes up in conection with Schon. In fact, he's just outright defensive and swears that he did all the work while Bob did very littleWell, how come
I still hear from other Schon cue owners that are able to compare a cue made by Bob Runde and a cue made by Evan Clarke that they're amazed that there could be a difference and not one ever told me they prefer the hit and feel of Evan's Schon.

Now before you jump into the foray, I've already allowed for factors such as ferrule composition differences, tip type, tip brand, overall tip condition, shaft diameter, shaft taper length. But since Scho shafts can be swirtched, I also sawapped shafts from my new Schon to my old Schon and vice versa...I mean I've looked at this way every way imaginable and I'm hear to tell you that if Bob Runde made the Schon, it just flat out feels better than one made by Evan Clarke.

Now does that diminish the Schon cue that someone buys in any way because wasn't made by Runde, absolutely not. Let's put it this way, it's more a question of desireablity rather than playability. If the buyer likes the Schon, that all that matters to the buyer. But if the buyer wanted a Schon that was made during Runde's time at Schon but actually winds up with a cue made after Runde departed, then the buyer is the still the only one who has a right to gripe.

I think we make too much out of when a cue was made, or who the cuemaker was. How about this....wouldn't it be great to be able to go into a room and pick the cue you wanted based upon its looks and feel and make the selection without ever knowing who made the cue. Every cue was labelled with a number that covered the cuemaker's logo so you never really knew the cuemaker's identity until after you selected the cue..I haven't quite figured out what to do about cue price or displaying it because then obviously someone would think a $2000 cue was going to be superior to a $700 cue.

But I hope you get my point....I'm betting that a lot of top name cuemakers wouldn't be picked and other newer name cuemakers would. We get wrapped up in the cuemaker's name which is fine if you're going to just put the cue in the closet and hope it increases in value. But if you're going to play with the cue as I do with mine, and I have a early 70's Joss West cue which I also treasure, how the cue plays is more important than whether Bill Stroud made it versus Dan Janes.

Anyway, hope I haven't put anyone to sleep with this posting but it covers a myriad of topics.
 
I think we make too much out of when a cue was made, or who the cuemaker was. How about this....wouldn't it be great to be able to go into a room and pick the cue you wanted based upon its looks and feel and make the selection without ever knowing who made the cue. Every cue was labelled with a number that covered the cuemaker's logo so you never really knew the cuemaker's identity until after you selected the cue..I haven't quite figured out what to do about cue price or displaying it because then obviously someone would think a $2000 cue was going to be superior to a $700 cue.

This is excellent advice and is how I sell cues. I don't cover up the brand but I don't put price tags on them nor do I put weights. I tell people to hit some balls first.

The way to eliminate price would be to simply not put the prices on the cues and let people try them. Then the price is revealed once they pick out the ones they like and if they are able to afford it they buy it and if not they go to another choice.

Regarding eras I think most of what you posted makes great sense. Sometimes I feel that an era designation is applied unfairly as in the case of "Franklin" SWs. But the more I think about it the more I think that it's probably right. As sad as it is Jerry can never touch another SW and give his stamp of approval. He can never argue with any change however slight in the way the cues are made and also never make any changes to the way the cues are made. So the Jerry Franklin mojo died with him and those who remain are left to follow his philosophy as best they can. SW cues might be as good as when Jerry was alive, they might be better, but none of them will be Jerry Franklin SouthWests.

This is about a 100% reversal of how I previously thought about it. Regarding Schoen cues there is a definite difference that some of us can feel. I used to argue against this as well. But at one point in my life I actually had a Runde Schoen and a Clark Schon (no umlaut) in my shop. Not only could I feel the difference but also my customers who were all good players hanging out and wasting time with me. Nearly everyone who played with those two cues commented on how much MORE they liked the Runde Schoen. Keep in mind that prior to acquiring the Runde I felt that a Schon was a Schon and that there was no difference really. But at this time I didn't know about Bob Runde/Evan Clarke and the Schon story. I had seen some posts about the Schon shafts marked "Schon 13" not playing as good as unmarked ones. I just thought the marking was butt-ugly.

Anyway, I am convinced that Bob's Schoen cues are better players. It's hard to quantify and I might even fail to pick the right one in a blind test but those two I had remain like lost loves to me. Over the years I heard stories of Bob being an instrument maker and applying principles of resonance to cue making. Whatever it is the cues he made really resonated with me and I dearly wish I had not sold them.
 
My "Runde" Schon plays and feels better than my 2010 Runde. Not alot better, but better..Figure that one out!!
 
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I sense through Howard's posts that he may not care for Bill too much...:(
yes i sense that too , but its not my fault,our last deal was i bought a all original vintage gina cue from him, in trade with a tascarella that had mild wobble in the shafts and some cash and he rolled it said ok, then took it to scott murphy and traded it to him.he did not tell scott!
I brought the gina back from derby and sold it to a very good buyer here on az, as it was stated to me.
when he sent it to ernie he said it was not his joint -joint ring- or shafts- !!! I then told greg about it and he said he got it from a collector friend if his . Ernie called me and told me it was 1200.00 to make it right, I told greg . and his statment was i will contact the guy! 3 months later nothing . i offered for them to pay only 400 to help me, and he said it was not his responsibility. and he said he did not have it or could not pay ! i did not pursue it. but i dont know why he is mad at me !!! i was the one that lost 1200.00 on another mans word!
good luck greg in all you do. and i did mean schon in my statment. also if you ever wish to make that deal right you can send a check to william grassley 4574 douglas rd. Ida,mi.48140 care of cornerstone cues

and the man who got caught in the middle that i sold the gina to that took it to ernie is Jim Davis here on az good luck to all and ill keep you posted
 
yes i sense that too , but its not my fault,our last deal was i bought a all original vintage gina cue from him, in trade with a tascarella that had mild wobble in the shafts and some cash and he rolled it said ok, then took it to scott murphy and traded it to him.he did not tell scott!
I brought the gina back from derby and sold it to a very good buyer here on az, as it was stated to me.
when he sent it to ernie he said it was not his joint -joint ring- or shafts- !!! I then told greg about it and he said he got it from a collector friend if his . Ernie called me and told me it was 1200.00 to make it right, I told greg . and his statment was i will contact the guy! 3 months later nothing . i offered for them to pay only 400 to help me, and he said it was not his responsibility. and he said he did not have it or could not pay ! i did not pursue it. but i dont know why he is mad at me !!! i was the one that lost 1200.00 on another mans word!
good luck greg in all you do. and i did mean schon in my statment. also if you ever wish to make that deal right you can send a check to william grassley 4574 douglas rd. Ida,mi.48140 care of cornerstone cues

and the man who got caught in the middle that i sold the gina to that took it to ernie is Jim Davis here on az good luck to all and ill keep you posted



That would explain a lot although...you would think the opposite. I almost sounds like he was on the brunt end of a bad deal instead of you. Looks like you've moved on...
 
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Don't go there....

yes i sense that too , but its not my fault,our last deal was i bought a all original vintage gina cue from him, in trade with a tascarella that had mild wobble in the shafts and some cash and he rolled it said ok, then took it to scott murphy and traded it to him.he did not tell scott!
I brought the gina back from derby and sold it to a very good buyer here on az, as it was stated to me.
when he sent it to ernie he said it was not his joint -joint ring- or shafts- !!! I then told greg about it and he said he got it from a collector friend if his . Ernie called me and told me it was 1200.00 to make it right, I told greg . and his statment was i will contact the guy! 3 months later nothing . i offered for them to pay only 400 to help me, and he said it was not his responsibility. and he said he did not have it or could not pay ! i did not pursue it. but i dont know why he is mad at me !!! i was the one that lost 1200.00 on another mans word!
good luck greg in all you do. and i did mean schon in my statment. also if you ever wish to make that deal right you can send a check to william grassley 4574 douglas rd. Ida,mi.48140 care of cornerstone cues

and the man who got caught in the middle that i sold the gina to that took it to ernie is Jim Davis here on az good luck to all and ill keep you posted

This thread is about Runde and Schon cues and nothing else...why bring this up on here...would you like it if people started posting all the "Grassley" stories? Cause I hear them all the time....and have a few of my own.
 
Schon Runde

First off, I have nothing against Bill, sorry if it came across that way. I was under the impression that this site was not only to sell stuff but to inform folks on cues, but when someone can't admit they are wrong then I guess there is no point. But here's Bill's quote, 9th post on the first page of this thread. "Bob still makes pantagraph points and did back then
evan the same!!!" Which is not true and that is the point I was trying to make. With that hopefully cleared up, I'm in shock that Bill would bring up this whole Ginacue Situation that happened in March which has nothing to so with this thread. I'm not going to get into a pissing contest so regardless of what is said, this will be my last comment. I know 90% of the people on this website and have most likely dealt with 80%. It sounds like Bill has openned up a small hole in a can of worms that's comparing my reputation to his. I believe that 90% of those who have done business with both of us know that he should not go there. But WTH, I'm not afraid to admit that sometimes I'm wrong. Greg
 
This thread is about Runde and Schon cues and nothing else...why bring this up on here...would you like it if people started posting all the "Grassley" stories? Cause I hear them all the time....and have a few of my own.

You are correct...and Bill owns this post. If you have anything you want to get off your chest (and it sounds like you do...) start your own and let's see what you have to say...
 
oh no...

You are correct...and Bill owns this post. If you have anything you want to get off your chest (and it sounds like you do...) start your own and let's see what you have to say...

Sorry Tonyboy....don't start making popcorn just yet:grin:

I'm not starting any thread about all the BS.
 
dealings with Bill Grassley

I'm sorry to see that people sometimes can't agree on certain subjects. First off I look forward to the experts sharing their knowledge with us all, and its a shame we all can,t see this for what it is, and others take sides, or make threats. so lets all just move on. I feel compelled to share my experiences that i have had Bill Grassley. I purchased two ginacues from Bill, had a problem, and Bill stepped up and made it right. End OF STORY. Less than 90 days ago, I purchased an all orginal Gus Szamboti from Bill, and the service was great! Today, I purchased another Gus Szamboti,and will receive it on Friday, Can't wait!
I have found Bill to be very gracious, honest, and very professional in my dealings with him, and will continue to to do business with him.

Best regards,

Jim Davis
 
My dealings with Bill (two Black Boars) were flawless...no complaints. Now that's not to say that with all the trading, buying and selling of cues that he does that there are not going to be problems from time to time. It just sucks when something wrong happens to you and you feel that you're the only one that this is/has happened to.

That being said...if your business practices are not sound and you try to scam people , you will not be in business long (at least not in this speciality). At the Expo, Bill impressed me with his "personal touch" in conducting his business and believe me his both was rocking during the entire time with a lot of items coming in and going out.
 
I have 2 Runde era cues and 1 Even era cue, My R1 hits like shit but my R11\R12 hits awesome. My Evan Clark hits ok, but with this said thinking about ordering a BW4, want to try out a wrapless Schon.

BTW, that"s a nice looking schon you sold on feebay..............


BL
 
My dealings with Bill (two Black Boars) were flawless...no complaints. Now that's not to say that with all the trading, buying and selling of cues that he does that there are not going to be problems from time to time. It just sucks when something wrong happens to you and you feel that you're the only one that this is/has happened to.

That being said...if your business practices are not sound and you try to scam people , you will not be in business long (at least not in this speciality). At the Expo, Bill impressed me with his "personal touch" in conducting his business and believe me his both was rocking during the entire time with a lot of items coming in and going out.

It has been my experience that the way I am treated depends on whether I am buying or selling..
 
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