Object ball "Skid" - real or just a BS excuse?

Jigger

Jigger

Lets Roll....(...(..(.(O
Silver Member
Have you heard of SKID before?

Seldom but occassionally, after missing a moderate angle cut shot I've had opponents strongly complain that the object ball "skidded". They claim the object ball did not take the correct cut path due to the OB skidding a few inches along the same direction as the cue ball. Supposedly this is not the throw effect.

Is this real or just a BS excuse for missing the shot?:confused: If skid is a real freak of physics, is it due to dirty balls or table cloth condition or phase of the moon??
 
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ok

Jigger said:
Have you heard of SKID before?

Seldom but occassionally, after missing a moderate angle cut shot I've had opponents strongly complain that the object ball "skidded". They claim the object ball did not take the correct cut path due to the OB skidding a few inches along the same direction as the cue ball. Supposedly this is not the throw effect.

Is this real or just a BS excuse for missing the shot?:confused: If skid is a real freak of physics, is it due to dirty balls or <a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=11&k=table%20cloth" onmouseover="window.status='table cloth'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;">table cloth</a> condition or phase of the moon??
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this is open to debate, but I have had this happen and seen it happen to others. weird, isn't it? don't know why it happens, but yes, it happens and NEVER for the better.
 
From my experience, dirty balls and a not so well taken care of cloth can both be contributing factors to ball skid. Just my 2 cents worth.
 
On a bar table I had a ball skid on me like this. Several people saw it happen, including Scott Frost, and were just as surprised as I was.

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The 6 ball hit where the arrow is pointed. I hit the CB with bottom right english to kill the CB off the rail to have a shot on the 7. Just wasn't my day I guess. Peace, John.
 
Seems like this could happen if the balls were quite dirty... Especially if there was a particularly sticky spot at the point of contact on the cut shot. If the "skid" you describe is basically the OB taking a line of a slightly thicker cut than was actually done, then this is exactly the throw effect, and is indeed amplified by dirty balls.

Wash yer balls! ;) And if ya can't do that, then use outside english.
 
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I've got a great example on DVD.

Sigel vs. Mizerak in the 14.1 US Open (91 or 92... it's the one where Sigel runs 111). Right in the middle of Mizerak's comeback run (roughly 100 behind) he misses a simple simple shot and you can see how it skidded and missed. The first thing Mathews makes note of is the skid.

So yeah it happens. Drives me nuts. But at least if it can happen to Mizerak then I don't feel like I should be immune to it.

Jigger said:
Have you heard of SKID before?

Seldom but occassionally, after missing a moderate angle cut shot I've had opponents strongly complain that the object ball "skidded". They claim the object ball did not take the correct cut path due to the OB skidding a few inches along the same direction as the cue ball. Supposedly this is not the throw effect.

Is this real or just a BS excuse for missing the shot?:confused: If skid is a real freak of physics, is it due to dirty balls or table cloth condition or phase of the moon??
Click to expand...
 
StevenPWaldon said:
I've got a great example on DVD.

Sigel vs. Mizerak in the 14.1 US Open (91 or 92... it's the one where Sigel runs 111). Right in the middle of Mizerak's comeback run (roughly 100 behind) he misses a simple simple shot and you can see how it skidded and missed. The first thing Mathews makes note of is the skid.

So yeah it happens. Drives me nuts. But at least if it can happen to Mizerak then I don't feel like I should be immune to it.
Click to expand...

Skidding is real. It happens when a chalk mark on the cueball makes contact with a chalk mark on the object ball. The friction of the 2 chalk marks meeting makes the object ball slide instead of roll.
 
thebighurt said:
Skidding is real. It happens when a chalk mark on the cueball makes contact with a chalk mark on the object ball. The friction of the 2 chalk marks meeting makes the object ball slide instead of roll.
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Not necessarily chalk marks, but any substance on either ball that increases the friction at impact. This phenomenon is usually referred to as "throw".

It's why the player that is used to dirty bar balls will tend to cut balls too thin if he switches to freshly cleaned balls. And vice versa.
 
Skids, or kicks as they are refered to in England are a pretty common occurance. The effect is more noticeable in games with smaller balls like snooker and English style 8-ball. It occurs most noticeably on slow shots.

It thickens the pot angle and tends to kill the spin on the CB, so if you don't miss the pot, you may miss out on the CB position you were after.

It often happens in snooker even with very clean balls. Not sure of contributing factors such as humidity. You'll often see the CB jump a little and the OB slide the first few inches when you get a bad skid.

I've also met players who tend to blame it for a lot of their misses. You know they're BSing when they blame skids for shots they overcut.

As mentioned earlier, a touch of OE can reduce some of the effects of skids. Another method is to play firm stun-through position rather than slow roll through, but this takes a lot of practice to refine.
 
Skid is definately for real. The pool hall I play at has crappy equipment (dirty, worn balls) and you can see balls skid all the time.

Ask Jim Rempe is skid is real- he lost a major 14.1 championship (many years ago) because of it and says he has never hit that shot the same way again. I believe he said it happens more often with inside english so on some shots he makes sure he uses a little outside english just in case it skids.

On the 14.1 tape of Engert versus Rempe, Engert misses a ball because of skid and it almost costs him the match.
 
Many of you guys state side wouldn’t have seen the excellent piece done by the BBC at this years world snooker championships. Skids (or kicks as they are referred to in the England) have been a cause of much debate and research for quite sometime.

A fairly well educated university professor had a theory that he was keen to prove. In recent years there have been two main theories to what causes skids:

a) Chalk marks on the cue balls causing a small explosion on impact, and
b) Static electricity causing a similar effect.

Both of these theories where disproved in a live TV experiment. Steve Davis lined up a shot on a brand new cloth, using balls cleaned with ethanol, and a tip with zero chalk on it - he got a massive skid/kick! Case closed on the chalk theory.

I don't recall exactly how they did it but they also eliminated the static electricity and also got a MASSIVE skid/kick.

The new theory that now seems to be the current most likely culprit is oil used in the cloth manufacturing process. They are doing more research but if this can be removed from the process then kicks/skids may one day be a thing of the past.
 
i have had it and seen it happen... i had an opponent have it on a straight in shot last Sunday... it's totally weird... it was on a gold crown with clean cloth and rails... we practise every sunday together and sometime i attribute it to my/his stroke being tentative.. or jabbing... but can't really give an exact reason... but you can damn well watch the object ball <especially if it's a stripe> just plow motionlessly forward until it starts to spinnn... it hardly ever results in a potted ball :-( !!
 
Jigger said:
Have you heard of SKID before?

Seldom but occassionally, after missing a moderate angle cut shot I've had opponents strongly complain that the object ball "skidded". They claim the object ball did not take the correct cut path due to the OB skidding a few inches along the same direction as the cue ball. Supposedly this is not the throw effect.

Is this real or just a BS excuse for missing the shot?:confused: If skid is a real freak of physics, is it due to dirty balls or table cloth condition or phase of the moon??
Click to expand...

It is very real in fact many times you can not just hear the skid, but also see the OB not rotate for a moment and hop. The main problem is humidity which allows chalk to stay on the ball. The other problem is the polishes that are put on the balls. (It is not just chalk.) If you were to rub two balls together pressing slightly, you will be able to feel the tackiness.
 
Another note, I would imagine (guessing here) that if the balls were heavier there would be fewer skids.
 
Colin Colenso said:
Skids, or kicks as they are refered to in England are a pretty common occurance. The effect is more noticeable in games with smaller balls like snooker and English style 8-ball. It occurs most noticeably on slow shots.

It thickens the pot angle and tends to kill the spin on the CB, so if you don't miss the pot, you may miss out on the CB position you were after.

It often happens in snooker even with very clean balls. Not sure of contributing factors such as humidity. You'll often see the CB jump a little and the OB slide the first few inches when you get a bad skid.

I've also met players who tend to blame it for a lot of their misses. You know they're BSing when they blame skids for shots they overcut.

As mentioned earlier, a touch of OE can reduce some of the effects of skids. Another method is to play firm stun-through position rather than slow roll through, but this takes a lot of practice to refine.
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You have an answer for everything, don't you? :D I love reading your posts, they are always informative, with great content. In case people are wondering about what Bryne's calls "stun run through", you can see his example of how to on his Standard Tape of Pool and Billiards Vol. II. It prevent from having to shoot softly, as was said, so that you don't have to deal with a table that has runoff, dirt or debris, chalk, or whatever else.

Allow me to give you some reputation.
 
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Colin Colenso said:
Skids, or kicks as they are refered to in England are a pretty common occurance. The effect is more noticeable in games with smaller balls like snooker and English style 8-ball. It occurs most noticeably on slow shots.

It thickens the pot angle and tends to kill the spin on the CB, so if you don't miss the pot, you may miss out on the CB position you were after.

It often happens in snooker even with very clean balls. Not sure of contributing factors such as humidity. You'll often see the CB jump a little and the OB slide the first few inches when you get a bad skid.

I've also met players who tend to blame it for a lot of their misses. You know they're BSing when they blame skids for shots they overcut.

As mentioned earlier, a touch of OE can reduce some of the effects of skids. Another method is to play firm stun-through position rather than slow roll through, but this takes a lot of practice to refine.
Click to expand...

Wow - Thanks to all for your clarifications of SKID. Sounds like it's related to but seperate from the throw effect with emphasized results. Should be a good reason to practice my outside english.

Thx much - Jigger
 
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My measles cueball tends to do it more than my other cueball's, so maybe that is the culprit? It doesn't seem to matter about the cleanliness of the balls or cloth, in my observations.

I was thinking maybe it comes from draw-dragging the cueball and it is going from skid to roll just before it hits the object ball and this causes it?

Maybe we should never find out as this would eliminate a convenient excuse for our misses. :D

Jeff Livingston
 
This is the first time I've heard of the Steve Davis experiment. Hard to believe it happens from something on the cloth.

It might be possible for it to happen by other means, but I still believe chalk marks are the source of most skids.
 
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