Player ratings

[Jodacus]

If the table parameters are set and we assume all players play on the
same table could a relative player rating be established?

Nine foot table, Simonis 860 and 4 1/2" pro cut pockets.

Now that the table is set lets set the game.

The game is ghost play. BIH after the break. Nine on the break counts,
and combos on the nine during play count. You only beat the ghost if
you win eight out of ten racks.

For example does a "C" player beat the 4 ball ghost or the 5 ball
ghost under these parameters?

Where does a "B" or an "A" player fall?

Give us you opinions.

 

[Floppage]

For reference: I'm a "C" player and have been threatened by the league director that I am dangerously close to being bumped up.

With ball in hand after the break I can typically run through the 4. In 9 ball, it is my experience that as long as the table is reasonably open once I have the first few down it's easier to get shape as there are fewer balls cluttering up the table so I don't know that going from 4 to 5 or even 6 and out is that much of a stretch of skill.

Where I feel like the big difference between "C" and "B" exists is my ability to put my opponent in jail with a strong safe if I don't have a run out. Also, my ability to kick or masse out of a safe my opponent may put me in. I can perform most one rail and more and more two rail kicks under good conditions but that's about it. Also, my shot accuracy when bridging on the rail or over another ball keeps me out of "B" status.

Finally, my ability to break up clusters is kind of hit and miss and I feel like I am a questionable B candidate until I can reliably plan my pattern around the cluster break up.

Sorry if that answer is a little muddled but I don't think its as simple as the number of balls in a run.

Then again, I'm a beginner so what the hell do I know? ;-)

 

[ssbn610g]

Dr. Dave's resource page

Dr. Dave has posted a compendium of rating systems including his test. The pocket size and cut is referenced. Here is the link:

http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/ratings.html#9-ball

Here is the whole page:

http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/ratings.html#9-ball

Al

 

[hang-the-9]

If the table parameters are set and we assume all players play on the
same table could a relative player rating be established?

Nine foot table, Simonis 860 and 4 1/2" pro cut pockets.

Now that the table is set lets set the game.

The game is ghost play. BIH after the break. Nine on the break counts,
and combos on the nine during play count. You only beat the ghost if
you win eight out of ten racks.

For example does a "C" player beat the 4 ball ghost or the 5 ball
ghost under these parameters?

Where does a "B" or an "A" player fall?

Give us you opinions.

They did this quite a few years ago, I remember looking up the ABCD rankings over a decade ago.

The ranking I'm sure were based on a larger than 4.5" pocket though, the standard GC size is probably 4.75. A D would make 1-2 balls with ball in hand, C 3-5 B 5-7 A 8-9. This is going off memory and is pretty rough since a player can play half a level over his average rankings at times. A C+ can play like a B- during a set or a game for example.

This is pure pocketing though, you can have two players that can make 6 balls every time, but one of them can play better safes and plays the right shots so ends up winning a lot more. My friend and I play scotch doubles against people every so often and although some of them can make better shots, they don't control the table as well as we do and we win most of the time.

 

[Bambu]

If the table parameters are set and we assume all players play on the
same table could a relative player rating be established?

Nine foot table, Simonis 860 and 4 1/2" pro cut pockets.

Now that the table is set lets set the game.

The game is ghost play. BIH after the break. Nine on the break counts,
and combos on the nine during play count. You only beat the ghost if
you win eight out of ten racks.

For example does a "C" player beat the 4 ball ghost or the 5 ball
ghost under these parameters?

Where does a "B" or an "A" player fall?

Give us you opinions.

None of that matters because ratings vary so much. State to state, tourney to tourney, bar to bar. It's kind of like asking what the real rules of 8 ball are. It all depends on where you are.

Other than that, I'm thinking don't be so hard on yourself. 8 outta 10 racks, jeez!

 

[bdorman]

I agree with Floppage on this one. In fact, I've given up what little ghost play I did because it gave me no opportunity to practice safes, kicks, etc. Since I'm not as experienced as most of you, I needed to learn to "see" the potential safes and learn to execute them.

When I watch top pro matches it seems that safety play is as much a determining factor as breaking ability. Pros rarely outright miss a shot; sometimes they miss a position, but not often.

It's the ability to execute a real "lock-up" safe, and the ability to get out of one, that determines the game (on equal par with breaking, but we seem to be trying to take breaking out of the equation).

To the OP's original question, ghost play is only a measure of the player's ability to pocket balls and get position. An APlayer/Shortstop can do that. But winning games requires breaking and safety play.

In our little local tournaments there are two players who are much, much better ball pocketers than me. But I win 70-80% of my matches against them because I get BIH after playing a lock-up safe. I couldn't do that if I didn't practice seeing the potential and executing them as perfectly as I can.

 

[peppersauce]

...............

 

[hang-the-9]

None of that matters because ratings vary so much. State to state, tourney to tourney, bar to bar. It's kind of like asking what the real rules of 8 ball are. It all depends on where you are.

Other than that, I'm thinking don't be so hard on yourself. 8 outta 10 racks, jeez!

I keep making the same point about this, the ABCD rankings are NOT relative to others or to areas. It's simply how good you play vs the ghost basically. If you can run 1-2 with ball in hand you are a D, 2-3-4 C to C+ 5-6-7 B to B+ over 7 is an A.

Now if you say you are a 5 in the APA, that is based on how well you play against the other APA players in your area. If you are a 4 of 4 in your local tournament filled with C players you may find yourself in trouble if you play another 4 that comes from a room filled with A and B players.

An A player is an A player no matter where you are. You can run a rack in Hawaii same as you can run 8 balls in Texas, does not matter who you are playing against. You don't all of sudden miss on the 4 ball every game because you moved areas.

 

[Floppage]

When I watch top pro matches it seems that safety play is as much a determining factor as breaking ability. Pros rarely outright miss a shot; sometimes they miss a position, but not often.

What I have started to learn lately is that pros (and AA players) will sometimes intentionally play a less than perfect position because if they do happen to miss the shot they are on, they know the leave will be rough on their opponent.

That happened to me in a match against an AA player last night. He could have played for much better position on the next shot but chose a slightly tougher one. When I looked at him funny he paused, smiled and asked what my leave would have been like if he had missed that last shot. He was right. He still had a relatively low percentage shot on the 8 but if he had given the table back to me I was totally hooked. Bastard!

When I do play the ghost at home I use a ping pong ball and put it where I expect the cue ball to end up. That has forced me to think about not only my next position better but what kind of leave I will be handing my opponent if I miss. The ping pong ball works better than the cube of chalk I have seen other people use because it doesn't interrupt the path of the cue ball. Even if I'm just shooting around for fun I use the ping pong ball to try and at least get something out of it.

 

[Banks]

What I have started to learn lately is that pros (and AA players) will sometimes intentionally play a less than perfect position because if they do happen to miss the shot they are on, they know the leave will be rough on their opponent.

That happened to me in a match against an AA player last night. He could have played for much better position on the next shot but chose a slightly tougher one. When I looked at him funny he paused, smiled and asked what my leave would have been like if he had missed that last shot. He was right. He still had a relatively low percentage shot on the 8 but if he had given the table back to me I was totally hooked. Bastard!

I've been playing two-way shots since I started. It doesn't take a short-stop or AA or anything, just somebody with a decent head for strategy. I'm an A with a C- stroke and C+ shotmaking, so just call me a B-.

 

[Spimp13]

I'm an A with a C- stroke and C+ shotmaking, so just call me a B-.

lol...I can relate to this. My friends try to tell me I am closer to an A if I wanted to be and I am like...um....not so much. They sometimes don't get to see the huge jumps that can be done in peoples game from B to A to shortstop to pro etc.