Pool ball collecting.

Rubik's Cube

Pool ball collector.
Silver Member
Hello, Mr K. :)

I hope you don't mind, dear fellow, but I thought it might be nice to answer your recent (private) question publicly on the forum.

I currently have forty something sets in my treasured collection. The list below is purely from memory so there might be one or two that have temporarily slipped my mind. I really must get them all together for a wonderful group photograph. All are in a pristine, unused condition.

Raschig R9 Numberless 2.25 inch.
Raschig R15 Spots and Stripes 2.25 inch.
Raschig Rings 2.25 inch.
Raschig Four Player 2.25 inch.
Raschig One Pocket 2.25 inch.
Raschig Snooker. 2.125 inch.
Aramith Pokers 1st Edition 2.00 inch.
Aramith Pokers 2nd Edition 2.25 inch.
Hyatt Pokers 1st Edition 2.25 inch (currently in the care of Mr K in Texas).
Hyatt Pokers 2nd Edition 2.25 inch.
Joe Camel Marbles 2.25 inch.
Hyatt Bicentennials 2.25 inch.
Aramith Snooker Plus 2.25 inch.
Aramith Tournament TV Pro 2.25 inch.
American Heritage Stone Colds 2.25 inch.
Elephant Stars and Stripes 2.25 inch.
Aramith Castlemaine XXXXs 2.00 inch.
Playboy Originals 1st Edition 2.25 inch.
Playboy Marbles 2.25 inch (currently in the care of Mr K in Texas).
Bacardi Breezers 2.00 inch.
Sterling Criss Crosses 2.25 inch.
Prestige Numberless Series One 2.25 inch.
Guinness 250th Anniversaries 2.25 inch.
Johnnie Walker Spots and Stripes 2.25 inch.
Aramith Premier Spots and Stripes 2.25 inch.
Aramith Premier Snooker. 2.25 inch.
Aramith Premier Spots and Stripes. 2.00 inch.
Aramith Premier Snooker (numbered) 2.25 inch.
Aramith Premier Snooker 2.0625 inch.
Aramith Premier Snooker 2.00 inch.
Geordie Pool Galaxy. 2.00 inch.
Aramith Casino Reds and Yellows 2.25 inch.
Aramith Casino Reds and Yellows 2.00 inch.
Aramith Casino Blues and Yellows 2.25 inch.
Aramith Casino Blues and Yellows 2.00 inch.
Aramith Glow In The Dark 2.25 inch.
Vigma Diamonds 2.25 inch.
Harley Davidson Trio Money Ball 2.25 inch.
Joe Camel Trio Money Ball 2.25 inch.
Aramith Baseball Premiers.

In addition to these treasured examples I also have quite a few spare doubletons of desirable sets, some of which I might trade or sell one day.

Raschig R9 numberless Turniersatz.
Raschig R15 Spots and Stripes.
Hyatt Pokers 2nd Edition (currently in Mr K's care in Texas).
Guinness 250th Anniversary.
Aramith Pokers 1st Edition.
 
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Rubik's Cube

Pool ball collector.
Silver Member
I forgot to mention, gentlemen, that full colour A5 insert cards are currently in production here in Devon which will detail the specifications and historical provenance of these precious billiard ball sets. It is my belief that we should record such information to the best of our ability for future generations. I hope to slip them inside each box within a clear plastic envelope for protection.

Progress is rather slow, alas, but as soon as they are ready I'll post up some images for much valued appraisal. It goes without saying, of course, but if you like them I'll gladly share my work with my collecting friends on AZB.

Best wishes,
RC.
 

K2Kraze

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Hello, Rubik’s!

Your decision to share details about your amazing and impressive ball collection here on the forum is something that can certainly be appreciated by all viewers of the PBC thread - bravo, sir!

The most glaring characteristic of your Collection must certainly be that EVERY single set is pristine and unplayed. Not a few sets or the extra-special and extremely valuable sets - but every single one. Impressive isn’t the word. Incredible is getting close. You have amassed a literal museum of some of the most interesting and intriguing balls sets and presented them to us all as if each one came from the factory today.

It’s coming up on 3 years since we began collaborating on our phenolic pursuits of acquiring the most coveted and elusive ball sets from any nook and cranny we can - any country. Any price sometimes. What an adventure it’s been. So when I look at your 40+ set collection, I see the tremendous dedication and passion you’ve put into each and every one of them. And I mean every one. I wonder what the future holds

One other thing caught my attention, sir - your current Raschig holdings are literally unmatched by anyone I know of in the small circle of high-level collectors across the globe - and most notably, comprised of a few sets that have (never) been seen before or documented in any media format that I know of. The few remaining Raschig sets that you are after to complete the entire Raschig line of billiard balls will be yet one more example of the historical importance you personally have brought to our attention. I count myself amongst the 67,000+ members of this forum that sincerely appreciate what you’ve accomplished and especially what you’ve shared with us all.

Thank you, Rubik’s Cube - you’ve set the standard that we can all pursue with just a little relentless passion.



~ K.



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Rubik's Cube

Pool ball collector.
Silver Member
Good afternoon, Mr K. :)

Thank you so much for those kind words, dear fellow. One highly important factor which I shamefully neglected to mention in the post above, of course, is the very reason why many of the sets in my treasured collection are in such a fantastic condition. It is due entirely to your own tireless work and unparalleled skill in restoring them to their original lustrous glory, before then sending them across the mighty Atlantic to me in the UK.

I know that it is an incredibly time consuming process, sir, and one for which I remain sincerely grateful.

Thank you. :)
 

XPLSV

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Raschig R9 Numberless Turniersatz

Everyone following this thread has viewed the beautiful Raschig R9 Numberless Turniersatz 9 ball set. I received my set about 10 days ago and had meant to share its story before I headed out on travel, but am finally getting to it today. While the set is special, of itself, this one is even more so for me because of the route it took coming into my possession and I wish to share that wonderful story that everyone following this thread.

Ever since seeing my first Raschig 9 ball set on the forum, I thought it would be one that I would love to have on my table some day. The entry level price, however, did not make it an immediate acquisition concern. If working night shifts, I sometimes have some time to search for things on the internet, to include craigslist. I was doing a general internet search in the latter part of February and came across a search hit for "rachig" on the Italian ebay site. Now, I cannot access many sites from work and that includes auction sites such as ebay. I had to wait to get home the following morning to see if this was actually a Raschig 9 ball set and whether it was actually an active listing. When I got home the next day, I found it was an active listing and was a Buy-It-Now type listing for 35 Euros...about 39 US dollars. I did my best to translate the Italian listing and then decided I better buy it before someone else did. I could not complete the checkout process, because the seller would only ship to European Union addresses. I tried my best to compose a message in Italian asking for an exception to be made and to ship it to me in the US. I went to sleep for the morning and awoke to find no return message. But the listing was still active. Some of you who have been following this thread may know where I turned to next...

I contacted Rubik's Cube and asked if he might help out and serve as my shipping intermediary, explaining my situation. He ended up being much more helpful than I would have imagined! By the time I returned from my next work shift, I had a reply from him providing me a shipping address. I completed the purchase with that address and waited for shipping info. In the interim, RK had found the set online and noticed there was a duplicate ball in the listing photo but said he had the missing yellow ball that would complete the set! It took several weeks for the set to arrive in England; upon arrival, the set had two duplicate balls and was missing the instruction pamphlet that was featured in the listing photo. But...RK informed me that although he did not have a spare ball for that second duplicate, he knew where to get one! Plus, he also had spare copies of the English and the German pamphlets! A week or so later, the beautiful, completed set arrived wonderfully packaged here in Colorado Springs and I simply love it! Many thanks and a tip of the hat to Rubik's Cube for making this wonderful set a reality!!!

Pic of my first rack and break--yes, I will be using this set. They have also inspired me to finally put that Simonis Tournament Blue cloth on my table that I have had in the closet for a couple of years--I think the Raschigs will look even better on that color!
 

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jviss

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Everyone following this thread has viewed the beautiful Raschig R9 Numberless Turniersatz 9 ball set. I received my set about 10 days ago and had meant to share its story before I headed out on travel, but am finally getting to it today. While the set is special, of itself, this one is even more so for me because of the route it took coming into my possession and I wish to share that wonderful story that everyone following this thread.

Ever since seeing my first Raschig 9 ball set on the forum, I thought it would be one that I would love to have on my table some day. The entry level price, however, did not make it an immediate acquisition concern. If working night shifts, I sometimes have some time to search for things on the internet, to include craigslist. I was doing a general internet search in the latter part of February and came across a search hit for "rachig" on the Italian ebay site. Now, I cannot access many sites from work and that includes auction sites such as ebay. I had to wait to get home the following morning to see if this was actually a Raschig 9 ball set and whether it was actually an active listing. When I got home the next day, I found it was an active listing and was a Buy-It-Now type listing for 35 Euros...about 39 US dollars. I did my best to translate the Italian listing and then decided I better buy it before someone else did. I could not complete the checkout process, because the seller would only ship to European Union addresses. I tried my best to compose a message in Italian asking for an exception to be made and to ship it to me in the US. I went to sleep for the morning and awoke to find no return message. But the listing was still active. Some of you who have been following this thread may know where I turned to next...

I contacted Rubik's Cube and asked if he might help out and serve as my shipping intermediary, explaining my situation. He ended up being much more helpful than I would have imagined! By the time I returned from my next work shift, I had a reply from him providing me a shipping address. I completed the purchase with that address and waited for shipping info. In the interim, RK had found the set online and noticed there was a duplicate ball in the listing photo but said he had the missing yellow ball that would complete the set! It took several weeks for the set to arrive in England; upon arrival, the set had two duplicate balls and was missing the instruction pamphlet that was featured in the listing photo. But...RK informed me that although he did not have a spare ball for that second duplicate, he knew where to get one! Plus, he also had spare copies of the English and the German pamphlets! A week or so later, the beautiful, completed set arrived wonderfully packaged here in Colorado Springs and I simply love it! Many thanks and a tip of the hat to Rubik's Cube for making this wonderful set a reality!!!

Pic of my first rack and break--yes, I will be using this set. They have also inspired me to finally put that Simonis Tournament Blue cloth on my table that I have had in the closet for a couple of years--I think the Raschigs will look even better on that color!

Wow! Great set, and such kindness from Rubicks!
 

Rubik's Cube

Pool ball collector.
Silver Member
Hello. :)

Thank you for those kind words, gentlemen.

It was an honour and a pleasure to help Bernie acquire his treasured set of Raschigs. The welcome and many acts of friendship I have received from my fellow collectors since joining the forum has always been very much appreciated and I was sincerely grateful to be afforded an opportunity to pay it forward in a small way.

Best wishes,
RC.
 

Rubik's Cube

Pool ball collector.
Silver Member
Made in Germany. Purchased from Italy. Sent for a short vacation in England to pick up two replacement balls, one of which was in Romania. Before finally making its transatlantic crossing to America.

It truly is an international set, dear fellow. :)
 

jviss

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Counterfeit Pool Balls?

From what I have read over the last few months I'm certain there are counterfeit ball sets out there.

What I would like to learn, from the experts in this thread, is how to both purchase an authentic set, and to then verify its authenticity.

Let's take the example of a Brunswick Centennial set. They list on Brunswick's site for $500/set, have an online street price of about $400, and go for as low as $325/free shipping on eBay.

First, are these ever faked?

Second, how can you tell?

I presume there are pure appearance issues, like the exact font for the numbers, the exact color, the sheen, and so on. I also presume one could precisely weigh them, for both accuracy, and consistency, ball to ball.

Any thoughts on this?

Thanks,

jv
 

K2Kraze

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Hello, jv -

Being the most iconic and recognized ball set for the past 50 years, I’d say the likelihood of non-authentic Centennials is a definite possibility.
1) only buy with the assurance you can return them. Period.
2) the tell will be in the details like you mentioned: the exterior quality and clarity of course - and inside the ball box especially, and how the corners are done/the precision and exactness is evident; the exact centering of the numerals and darts - and often overlooked is the distinct lines between colors or the outline blacks; also, the small print details on the box can be verified with any number of us through pics and emails
3) the weights will be within .2 grams if you’re using an accurate scale.
4) buy from a reputable seller. Which will always cover #1 above. If you want cheap and possibly imitation Centennials, by all means go for price first and look for a deal too-good to be true.

~ K.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

K2Kraze

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Everyone following this thread has viewed the beautiful Raschig R9 Numberless Turniersatz 9 ball set. I received my set about 10 days ago and had meant to share its story before I headed out on travel, but am finally getting to it today. While the set is special, of itself, this one is even more so for me because of the route it took coming into my possession and I wish to share that wonderful story that everyone following this thread.



Ever since seeing my first Raschig 9 ball set on the forum, I thought it would be one that I would love to have on my table some day. The entry level price, however, did not make it an immediate acquisition concern. If working night shifts, I sometimes have some time to search for things on the internet, to include craigslist. I was doing a general internet search in the latter part of February and came across a search hit for "rachig" on the Italian ebay site. Now, I cannot access many sites from work and that includes auction sites such as ebay. I had to wait to get home the following morning to see if this was actually a Raschig 9 ball set and whether it was actually an active listing. When I got home the next day, I found it was an active listing and was a Buy-It-Now type listing for 35 Euros...about 39 US dollars. I did my best to translate the Italian listing and then decided I better buy it before someone else did. I could not complete the checkout process, because the seller would only ship to European Union addresses. I tried my best to compose a message in Italian asking for an exception to be made and to ship it to me in the US. I went to sleep for the morning and awoke to find no return message. But the listing was still active. Some of you who have been following this thread may know where I turned to next...



I contacted Rubik's Cube and asked if he might help out and serve as my shipping intermediary, explaining my situation. He ended up being much more helpful than I would have imagined! By the time I returned from my next work shift, I had a reply from him providing me a shipping address. I completed the purchase with that address and waited for shipping info. In the interim, RK had found the set online and noticed there was a duplicate ball in the listing photo but said he had the missing yellow ball that would complete the set! It took several weeks for the set to arrive in England; upon arrival, the set had two duplicate balls and was missing the instruction pamphlet that was featured in the listing photo. But...RK informed me that although he did not have a spare ball for that second duplicate, he knew where to get one! Plus, he also had spare copies of the English and the German pamphlets! A week or so later, the beautiful, completed set arrived wonderfully packaged here in Colorado Springs and I simply love it! Many thanks and a tip of the hat to Rubik's Cube...


⚫️

First, Congratulations on the XS Raschig set, sir! They are indeed truly unique both visually and (that) sound when played - and now your 9 ball set comes with an amazing story. A smile will preceded every shot, I can assure you.

I echo sentiments for the truly wonderful Rubik’s Cube as well - who, I am proud to say, has become a great friend over the years with our global escapades and acquisitions of some unique ball treasures to help get into hands of appreciable fellows like yourself. There simply is no one else like the gentleman - and how incredibly fortunate we are to have his participation in not only this forum but in our personal pursuits of phenolic passions

Which reminds me - the pet project we undertook last year to bring that English version of the leaflet you have in your possession was the perfect example of joined efforts showing no limits of time or resources. Started in England with a Germany assist and culminating in the USA for production.

1d7ef5e76d85a82388b1bbe4bf47fae7.jpg


Love the pics, XPLSV - and your story, sir!

~ Kerry






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

jviss

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hello, jv -

Being the most iconic and recognized ball set for the past 50 years, I’d say the likelihood of non-authentic Centennials is a definite possibility.
1) only buy with the assurance you can return them. Period.
2) the tell will be in the details like you mentioned: the exterior quality and clarity of course - and inside the ball box especially, and how the corners are done/the precision and exactness is evident; the exact centering of the numerals and darts - and often overlooked is the distinct lines between colors or the outline blacks; also, the small print details on the box can be verified with any number of us through pics and emails
3) the weights will be within .2 grams if you’re using an accurate scale.
4) buy from a reputable seller. Which will always cover #1 above. If you want cheap and possibly imitation Centennials, by all means go for price first and look for a deal too-good to be true.

~ K.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for the reply. Here's an interesting graph. It shows the fluctuation in price for a new set of Brunswick Centennial balls on Amazon, from third-party sellers. One can only presume that those sets selling for $300 or less must be fakes.

Screenshot%202019-04-06%2012.58.46.png
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Thanks for the reply. Here's an interesting graph. It shows the fluctuation in price for a new set of Brunswick Centennial balls on Amazon, from third-party sellers. One can only presume that those sets selling for $300 or less must be fakes. ...
Interesting graph. I wonder if the outliers are not in fact used balls. I see under the reviews for Centennials on Amazon one buyer complained of scuff marks, fading and the sweet fragrance of an ashtray from his "new" Centennials.

Aramith has used plastic wrap with their logo on their high-end sets. I wonder if current Centennials are packaged similarly. A local pool hall got some "Aramith" balls (I believe from a local supplier) and they came in an Aramith box but without the logoed plastic wrap and they sure weren't real Aramiths. You can get a set of balls that superficially looks like Aramith Pros delivered to your door for under $40. I suspect the local supplier kept the box after delivery to a local buyer and put the fakes into the real box.

I have not seen fake Centennials to my knowledge but they are certainly possible for anyone who has the technology to make numbered phenolic balls.

Maybe Aramith could add something -- a fluorescing mineral? -- to make their balls more identifiable, but it would only be a matter of time before the crooks caught up.

I am surprised by Kerry's remark that the weights will be within 0.2 grams. I would expect a variation of around a gram. If in fact the tighter tolerance is true, I doubt that any counterfeit will be that close. I think that the diameters will be within 0.002 or less of 2.250 inches.
 
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jviss

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thanks, Bob. If I was manufacturing high-end billiard balls, I'd consider embedding read-only RFID tags with containing a digital signature, that could be easily verified. An RFID reader is cheap.
 

K2Kraze

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
The .2 grams I referred to was indeed from my “authentic” Cents - which surprised me as well, since anything within 1 gram is tough to find. Perhaps mine were hand selected

Speaking of tolerances, I have 2 PERFECTLY matched sets of the 2.25” solid red and yellow Aramith snooker balls that tip my scale at precisely 167.0 grams including the cue balls. 46 of them. They were hand-selected amongst the 220 of those reds and yellows I have though, but still. Of the thousands upon thousands of balls to roll across my table, the Aramith solid color replacement balls have the most consistent out-of-the-box weight.

~ K.
 
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Rubik's Cube

Pool ball collector.
Silver Member
Hello, everyone. :)

Just to offer my two pence worth on the subject of counterfeits, gentlemen. There are definitely examples of fake Raschig numberless sets out there online. I know this for a fact because I deliberately purchased one recently to further my knowledge and compare with the genuine articles. Here is what was learnt:

1. Original Raschigs all weigh in the region of 163 to 165 grams. The copies are much heavier, some of them are over 175 grams.

2. The yellow stripe on the counterfeit Bumblebee is 31 mm wide, whereas the authentic ball is slightly narrower at 29 mm.

3. Fake Raschig R9s are either supplied in a green Aramith box or the generic black bubble design favoured by Chinese manufacturers. I have yet to see a counterfeit set offered in a genuine-looking blue box with the West Germany logo, but who's to say that won't happen in the future? Buyer beware as always. If there isn't a genuine box present, however tatty, be suspicious.

4. Original Raschigs boast a deep lustre that the copiers have not yet matched.

5. Original Raschigs are fractionally smaller than most standard balls. The counterfeit balls fit extremely snugly in the recesses of my Aramith Tournament case. The originals are very slightly loose.

That's all I can think of for the moment, gentlemen. I hope it might help some.

Best wishes,
RC.
 
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Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
... Original Raschigs are fractionally smaller than most standard balls. The counterfeit balls fit extremely snugly in the recesses of my Aramith Tournament case. The originals are very slightly loose.
...
Considering how much time and effort you put into your hobby, I'm surprised that you don't have a nice digital caliper. The engineer in me is offended. :grin-square: I have one as well as a gauge for pool balls with round holes at the upper and lower allowed tolerance.
 

Rubik's Cube

Pool ball collector.
Silver Member
Hello, Bob. :)

I did have one once upon a time, sir, along with a whole factory full of billiard related equipment in fact. Every type of gauge, scale and micrometer one could imagine, not to mention a few truly beautiful Myford lathes.

Then I suffered a stroke and everything turned upside down. I couldn't work and pretty much had to sell everything, my business, my home and start again in much reduced circumstances. But I kept the balls.

Apologies for going off on a bit of a depressing tangent. Especially as you only enquired about a caliper! :)

Best wishes.
 

K2Kraze

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Hello, Bob. :)

I did have one once upon a time, sir, along with a whole factory full of billiard related equipment in fact. Every type of gauge, scale and micrometer one could imagine, not to mention a few truly beautiful Myford lathes.

Then I suffered a stroke and everything turned upside down. I couldn't work and pretty much had to sell everything, my business, my home and start again in much reduced circumstances. But I kept the balls.

Apologies for going off on a bit of a depressing tangent. Especially as you only enquired about a caliper! :)

Best wishes.




A new set of Digital calipers and ball gauges will be in the next shipment steaming eastbound, my friend! Or jetting as most likely the case, unless I carry them personally whilst traversing the mighty Atlantic aboard the magnificent Queen Mary 2 next summer - meet in Southampton, sir?

~ K.


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