Pool ball collecting.

rexus31

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Are there any contributors to this thread who specialize in or are serious collectors of Albany Billiard Ball Co. ("Hyatt") of Albany, N.Y. phenolic resin balls?
These are my three phenolic Hyatt sets:

1976 Bicentennials,...:
47507820741_d1c47dfdd0_k.jpg


47507820471_38b5f8ae66_k.jpg


33631178948_d77a4ce057_k.jpg


...this interesting set ordered in a case lot by a Virginia newspaper in the 60's or 70's,..
51244868454_3700fe9e93_h.jpg


51244315488_251095a75c_3k.jpg


51244315688_9d3e06f048_3k.jpg


...and 60's-'70's Brunswick Centennials made by Hyatt:
27139211398_6d2c0be4dd_k.jpg


27139207238_0ec1eba1ff_k.jpg
 
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Boxcar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
These are my three phenolic Hyatt sets:

1976 Bicentennials,...:
47507820741_d1c47dfdd0_k.jpg


47507820471_38b5f8ae66_k.jpg


33631178948_d77a4ce057_k.jpg


...this interesting set ordered in a case lot by a Virginia newspaper in the 60's or 70's,..
51244868454_3700fe9e93_h.jpg


51244315488_251095a75c_3k.jpg


51244315688_9d3e06f048_3k.jpg


...and 60's-'70's Brunswick Centennials made by Hyatt:
27139211398_6d2c0be4dd_k.jpg


27139207238_0ec1eba1ff_k.jpg
Very nice display. Thank you. I don't currently have the proper box for your ABB Co. manufactured Brunswick Centennial set, but I do have one or two nice authentic divider sets like the ones in your Bi-Centennial box. If you'd like to have one, send me a message.

The middle set was not manufactured by The Albany Billiard Ball Co. In late 1983, the Vice President of ABB Co., Robert Simpson, resigned and moved to Fort Edward, NY (+/- 90 miles north of Albany) and opened a ball manufacturing business there. I think the State of NY department which handles incorporation recorded his corporate papers in 1984. It has been suggested that the formula used by ABB Co. to manufacture their balls over the years, for all practical purposes the formula that came from Germany via post War England, was the formula that ended up with Societe Anonyme Les Usines de Callenelle (SALUC) after ABB Co. shut down in 1985. Simpson's company manufactured phenic resin balls which were used largely in various forms of manufacturing. Phenolic resin balls are used extensively in fracking, and I have read that he provided product to fracking operations out west. To this day, Saluc is an active provider to the fracking industry, as well. Hyatt Ball Co., Ltd. is listed in the NY State Corporation Commission as A. Hyatt Ball Co. There is Google support for that name. Simpson is now retired (or possibly deceased) and his son has taken over.

I have a few Hyatt things. If I can ever figure out how to make pictures leave my camera and move to my computer, I'll try to post a few.

When I get a little more time, I'll try to explain the protrusion of the black phenolic resin used to fill in the engraved (or molded in) ways for the numbers. Heat and pressure can do funny things to phenolic resin.

For those who don't know, the phenolic resin used in the manufacture of billiard balls by ABB Co. was some of the best ever produced.
 
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K2Kraze

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
You are a gentleman and a gem to have on the PBC thread, Boxcar.

Thank you for posting up some of the finer, oft forgotten details of your beloved Hyatt knowledge and history, sir!

~ K.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
. . . .
I'm sure they were not to be played just displayed.
Well, no. Hyatt made a lot of inferior balls towards the end. I was at the first Asbury Park tournament in 1976. They were using the roman numeral style. Many of the 3, 5 and 7 balls had bulging eyes. Fortunately there were enough extra sets that four good sets could be assembled using a go/no-go ball gauge.
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Gold Member
Silver Member
Well, no. Hyatt made a lot of inferior balls towards the end. I was at the first Asbury Park tournament in 1976. They were using the roman numeral style. Many of the 3, 5 and 7 balls had bulging eyes. Fortunately there were enough extra sets that four good sets could be assembled using a go/no-go ball gauge.
I remember some players used to gaff rack those balls by making sure the numbers or stripes were touching each other. You could inspect the rack and they were all touching...but it was a mud rack.
Raschig raised the bar at the ‘89 BCA trade show...on the spherical micrometer, the balls stayed within 2/1000 off
round even when it crossed a number or stripe....far surpassing all the other brands.
 

rexus31

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Very nice display. Thank you. I don't currently have the proper box for your ABB Co. manufactured Brunswick Centennial set, but I do have one or two nice authentic divider sets like the ones in your Bi-Centennial box. If you'd like to have one, send me a message.

Thanks! I got these Centennials with a table I bought in the 90's and they came in a ball tray. I found the box on eBay to keep them in. Do you have any photos of what the box should look like for a Centennial set of this vintage? I'll take you up on the offer for the dividers.

The middle set was not manufactured by The Albany Billiard Ball Co. In late 1983, the Vice President of ABB Co., Robert Simpson, resigned and moved to Fort Edward, NY (+/- 90 miles north of Albany) and opened a ball manufacturing business there. I think the State of NY department which handles incorporation recorded his corporate papers in 1984. It has been suggested that the formula used by ABB Co. to manufacture their balls over the years, for all practical purposes the formula that came from Germany via post War England, was the formula that ended up with Societe Anonyme Les Usines de Callenelle (SALUC) after ABB Co. shut down in 1985. Simpson's company manufactured phenic resin balls which were used largely in various forms of manufacturing. Phenolic resin balls are used extensively in fracking, and I have read that he provided product to fracking operations out west. To this day, Saluc is an active provider to the fracking industry, as well. Hyatt Ball Co., Ltd. is listed in the NY State Corporation Commission as A. Hyatt Ball Co. There is Google support for that name. Simpson is now retired (or possibly deceased) and his son has taken over.

Very interesting and finally some information on this mystery set. So these are circa early 80's? I'm still very curious as to why a newspaper would order a case lot of these in houndstooth boxes.

I have a few Hyatt things. If I can ever figure out how to make pictures leave my camera and move to my computer, I'll try to post a few.

When I get a little more time, I'll try to explain the protrusion of the black phenolic resin used to fill in the engraved (or molded in) ways for the numbers. Heat and pressure can do funny things to phenolic resin.

For those who don't know, the phenolic resin used in the manufacture of billiard balls by ABB Co. was some of the best ever produced.

Were you involved with ABB at some point?
 

rexus31

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Well, no. Hyatt made a lot of inferior balls towards the end. I was at the first Asbury Park tournament in 1976. They were using the roman numeral style. Many of the 3, 5 and 7 balls had bulging eyes. Fortunately there were enough extra sets that four good sets could be assembled using a go/no-go ball gauge.
Those sets, Romanique I and Romanique II are sought after today by collectors; especially the I's.
 

Boxcar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thanks! I got these Centennials with a table I bought in the 90's and they came in a ball tray. I found the box on eBay to keep them in. Do you have any photos of what the box should look like for a Centennial set of this vintage? I'll take you up on the offer for the dividers.



Very interesting and finally some information on this mystery set. So these are circa early 80's? I'm still very curious as to why a newspaper would order a case lot of these in houndstooth boxes.



Were you involved with ABB at some point?


Thank you for your interest.


"I'll take you up on the offer for the dividers."

Let me know.



"Very interesting and finally some information on this mystery set. So these are circa early 80's? I'm still very curious as to why a newspaper would order a case lot of these in houndstooth boxes."

Late eighties. Simpson was not in full production until after the close of ABB Co., which was probably finalized in 1986. I was raised in Tidewater, Va. The Virginian Pilot/Ledger Star was a large newspaper with large distribution and a wide array of business interests. Norfolk is one of the largest military complexes in the world. The gov't. buys through a wide variety of vendors, of which the Pilot was one. The seller of those ball sets on Ebay was close friends with a fellow who I went to High School with. I have a couple of sets of those balls. Oddly enough, 2 1/4" diameter phenolic resin balls are very popular in the fracking industry. If you want a good laugh, Google "2 1/4" phenolic resin balls in fracking."
Precision Plastic Ball Co. is a big player. You won't believe who they buy from.



"Were you involved with ABB at some point?"

I was not, but I have a friend who was. I respect his privacy.
 

Boxcar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You are a gentleman and a gem to have on the PBC thread, Boxcar.

Thank you for posting up some of the finer, oft forgotten details of your beloved Hyatt knowledge and history, sir!

~ K.
K2,

Thank you very much for the warm welcome! I am delighted to see that you are well.

Best regards,

Boxcar
 

Boxcar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Rexus31,

"Do you have any photos of what the box should look like for a Centennial set of this vintage?" Sorry, I forgot to answer this question.

The overall design of the box you have and the correct box for your ABB Co. Centennials is the same but there are subtle differences. The easiest difference to see will be found in the blue square with the Brunswick "B" and Crown logo which is located on the upper left hand side of the face of the boxtop. The blue (with black line enclosure) logo on your box will measure 55mm wide and 52mm tall overall ( I used the metric system here on purpose). On the lower left hand side and the upper right hand side of your box there will be an open panel with Code No. 002-70-500 printed at the top of the panel and Made in Belgium printed at the bottom. The blue color is moderately light in tone.

The blue (with black line enclosure) logo on the box in which your balls were shipped will measure 2 1/2" wide by 2 5/16 tall, clearly larger in a side-by-side setting. On the lower left hand side and the upper right hand side of the box in which your balls were shipped there will be an open panel with "Code No." printed at the top. In one of the panels, you should be able to find the hand stamped notes stating 2-7-5 plus the balls size 2 1/4 and what I think was the inspector's initials (but I do not know that for certain). The print font on all of the words on both boxes is virtually identical, but the letters of the words POCKET BALLS are spaced farther apart on the box which is appropriate for your set. The blue will be darker in tone.

Code No. changes were frequently done "on-the-fly" at Brunswick. My research shows that the phenolic resin Brunswick Centennial ball was first catalogued in 1951 and was given the Code No. 2-7-5. That early run was shipped in the box with the Little Man Leaning Over Shooting logo. The number font on the earliest Centennial balls was finer and a very sound argument can be made that the first Centennial balls were manufactured in Europe, probably England, at the house owned by the American group that also owned ABB Co. at that time. Les Usines did make a darted phenolic resin ball at roughly the same time, but it was clearly obvious that it was a Belgium made ball. But back to the point, it was not until 1962 that the 'Blue "B" and Crown logo' had been fully implemented and by then the ABB Co. manufactured Brunswick Centennial that we all know and love appeared exactly as your set does today. I think the final Brunswick Centennial to be manufactured in Albany was shipped in early 1985.

There were cast phenolic resin carom balls catalogued by Brunswick in 1948 and the World Famous phenolic resin "Red Dot" cue ball was introduced at the same time, but they were both noted as "Imported" on their packaging.

Best regards,

Boxcar
 

rexus31

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Rexus31,

"Do you have any photos of what the box should look like for a Centennial set of this vintage?" Sorry, I forgot to answer this question.

The overall design of the box you have and the correct box for your ABB Co. Centennials is the same but there are subtle differences. The easiest difference to see will be found in the blue square with the Brunswick "B" and Crown logo which is located on the upper left hand side of the face of the boxtop. The blue (with black line enclosure) logo on your box will measure 55mm wide and 52mm tall overall ( I used the metric system here on purpose). On the lower left hand side and the upper right hand side of your box there will be an open panel with Code No. 002-70-500 printed at the top of the panel and Made in Belgium printed at the bottom. The blue color is moderately light in tone.

The blue (with black line enclosure) logo on the box in which your balls were shipped will measure 2 1/2" wide by 2 5/16 tall, clearly larger in a side-by-side setting. On the lower left hand side and the upper right hand side of the box in which your balls were shipped there will be an open panel with "Code No." printed at the top. In one of the panels, you should be able to find the hand stamped notes stating 2-7-5 plus the balls size 2 1/4 and what I think was the inspector's initials (but I do not know that for certain). The print font on all of the words on both boxes is virtually identical, but the letters of the words POCKET BALLS are spaced farther apart on the box which is appropriate for your set. The blue will be darker in tone.

Code No. changes were frequently done "on-the-fly" at Brunswick. My research shows that the phenolic resin Brunswick Centennial ball was first catalogued in 1951 and was given the Code No. 2-7-5. That early run was shipped in the box with the Little Man Leaning Over Shooting logo. The number font on the earliest Centennial balls was finer and a very sound argument can be made that the first Centennial balls were manufactured in Europe, probably England, at the house owned by the American group that also owned ABB Co. at that time. Les Usines did make a darted phenolic resin ball at roughly the same time, but it was clearly obvious that it was a Belgium made ball. But back to the point, it was not until 1962 that the 'Blue "B" and Crown logo' had been fully implemented and by then the ABB Co. manufactured Brunswick Centennial that we all know and love appeared exactly as your set does today. I think the final Brunswick Centennial to be manufactured in Albany was shipped in early 1985.

There were cast phenolic resin carom balls catalogued by Brunswick in 1948 and the World Famous phenolic resin "Red Dot" cue ball was introduced at the same time, but they were both noted as "Imported" on their packaging.

Best regards,

Boxcar
Thank you, sir! You are a wealth of knowledge! I took this set out this morning and realized I must have purchased a different box for it since I snapped the pic I posted in a previous post. Here is the box they are currently in with the correct cardboard dividers. I also took pics of the areas you specified in the post above. No "Made In Belgium" to be found although you were spot on about the details as it pertained to the box originally posted.

51249555459_89d67b30de_k.jpg


51248801166_c8a34e6746_k.jpg


51248078177_7a869af608_k.jpg
 

Boxcar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thank you, sir! You are a wealth of knowledge! I took this set out this morning and realized I must have purchased a different box for it since I snapped the pic I posted in a previous post. Here is the box they are currently in with the correct cardboard dividers. I also took pics of the areas you specified in the post above. No "Made In Belgium" to be found although you were spot on about the details as it pertained to the box originally posted.

51249555459_89d67b30de_k.jpg


51248801166_c8a34e6746_k.jpg


51248078177_7a869af608_k.jpg
The box you just pictured is the "period correct" authentic box for your ABB Co. Centennial set. Only post-1985 SALUC boxes had the "Made in Belgium" imprint. Your box and its dividers are in very nice to excellent condition. When that box was originally shipped, the batting was draped over the dividers so that each beautiful ball had its own little nest. Often, a piece of loosely torn batting was placed over the balls under the box top much in the same way that SALUC placed the thin foam pad over there balls pre-red/black box days. You have a VERY nice example!
 
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rexus31

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The box you just pictured is the "period correct" authentic box for your ABB Co. Centennial set. Only post-1985 SALUC boxes had the "Made in Belgium" imprint. Your box and its dividers are in very nice to excellent condition. When that box was originally shipped, the batting was draped over the dividers so that each beautiful ball had its own little nest. Often, a piece of loosely torn batting was placed over the balls under to box top much in the same way that SALUC placed the thin foam pad over there balls pre-red/black box days. You have a VERY nice example!
Thank you, sir!
 

carl.j

Member
Very much enjoying scrolling through this thread. Recently acquired a set of the Aramith Tournaments and could not be happier. However, been keen on getting a set of Centennials now... On that note, does anyone know if the TV Edition Centennials are still available anywhere?
Sorry to bump but figured this would get more attention in this thread than over in the Wanted section. If inappropriate, happy to remove.
 

classiccues

Don't hashtag your broke friends
Silver Member
The box you just pictured is the "period correct" authentic box for your ABB Co. Centennial set. Only post-1985 SALUC boxes had the "Made in Belgium" imprint. Your box and its dividers are in very nice to excellent condition. When that box was originally shipped, the batting was draped over the dividers so that each beautiful ball had its own little nest. Often, a piece of loosely torn batting was placed over the balls under the box top much in the same way that SALUC placed the thin foam pad over there balls pre-red/black box days. You have a VERY nice example!
Maybe its just the catalog shot but these Centennials look like Gold Crowns...

Brunswick_1952_page_7.jpg (1000×1375) (palmercollector.com)
 

Boxcar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Maybe its just the catalog shot but these Centennials look like Gold Crowns...

Brunswick_1952_page_7.jpg (1000×1375) (palmercollector.com)
Your catalog cut came from either the 1951 or the 1952 Brunswick Mail Order Catalog. They were the same. The page preceding yours shows the well known Ivorylene darted ball.

The new phenolic resin non-darted Centennial ball was introduced in the 1951 Brunswick Mail Order Catalog. It was shown on the page following the darted Ivorylene ball, the Brunswick flagship for many years. That catalog alignment was repeated again in 1952. Brunswick, wisely, brought the phenolic resin concept forward slowly. The darted phenolic resin Centennial ball was introduced in the 1953 catalog, but it still followed the darted Ivorylene ball, and that alignment was repeated again in 1954. Finally, in 1955, the more recognizable darted phenolic resin Centennial ball received its own singular graphic billing, with the Ivorylene ball only mentioned in a paragraph in the slot below.

I have never held the earliest version of the non-darted Centennial ball in my hands, so I can't describe the texture or the configuration of the number font on each ball. Even though phenolic ball manufacturing had been around since before World War II, it was still in its infancy as far as being an established process is concerned. Endolithic had used throw-away glass molds, but ABB Co. was developing re-usable molds that helped streamline the injection molding process. Much of the true injection molding processing was, however, a direct spin-off from the very important use of Bakelite and its derivatives in the World War II war effort. Balls were fairly easy to make, so the ramp-up was fairly quick.

OK, back to the Centennial. The early darted Centennial balls used a finer, thinner font on the numbers and the circle/darts that defined the design. In 1958, the Brunswick Centennial finally received complete recognition with an action, full color blast on the last page of the catalog. I can't swear to it, but I think the 1958 version is the beginning of the reign of glory that lasted until 1985.
 
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