Pool Tournaments During COVID Pandemic

jokrswylde

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
At least we haven't all been brainwashed 👍.
My wife showed me a meme the other day, I don't remember verbatim, but it was Ron burgundy basically saying that the one good thing about 2020, is that at least deaths by "natural causes" are the lowest they have been in decades.

But in my world, as a high school teacher, by this time every year we have usually had anywhere from 1-5 days out of school due to flu and/or strep outbreaks...haven't heard a peep about either this year. Maybe, social distancing and mask wearing should be required for the foreseeable future, regardless of cover vaccines.

Although, we do require masks AND social distancing AND we have hand sanitizer stations around every corner, and STILL had over 900 positive cases throughout our district as of 12/19...so, I am not sure masks and social distancing and hygiene take care 90% of the cases (as penguin noted a few posts up) in all environments.
 
Oh they are going to put the nail in the coffin alright, don't worry 👍.
You, Jam, Lou and the others will make sure of it.
I don't think anyone believes it's hoax, it's just they have blown it so far out of proportion it's ridiculous.
Look at all the small businesses closing, of all kinds.
People having to close their business and losing their livelyhood left and right..
Who cares though, lets cut off the head to get rid of a pimple..
Where is Jam and her almighty attitude when it comes to Walmart and all the big box stores?
Put 1000s of people under 1 roof but shut down all the mom and pops lol.
It's not an accident it is by design.
When we tank the economy though, and the fallout makes Covid look like a lottery ticket, she'll pull her head out of her ass(maybe, hard to fix stupid).
If we had locked down properly in March for 4-6 weeks, and subsequently followed a coherent national plan like the original CDC gating criteria, we could have been fully opened back up months ago. Most other industrialized nations did just that. Instead we deemed the economy to be a higher priority than public health, lied, dissembled, spread misinformation, and attempted to achieve herd immunity the hard way, without our knowledge or consent. And now we are reaping what we have sown, the permanent loss of small businesses and hundreds of thousands of lives, instead of a temporary economic slowdown. Brilliant plan. Now, because of this extremely shortsighted and irrational response, there is no telling how many more will die, lose their homes and businesses, and be bankrupted. All for the quick buck and a desperate attempt to make the economy appear to be healthy. Ignoring the problem and prioritizing the economy over human lives hasn’t exactly turned out so great after all.
 

jsp

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Although, we do require masks AND social distancing AND we have hand sanitizer stations around every corner, and STILL had over 900 positive cases throughout our district as of 12/19...so, I am not sure masks and social distancing and hygiene take care 90% of the cases (as penguin noted a few posts up) in all environments.
The real question is how many cases of in-school transmission were there.

My younger children go to a Catholic school in which they've enforced mask wearing and social distancing since the school year began in late August. Although there have been about a dozen cases of individual students testing positive for COVID in the school year so far, there have been zero documented cases of in school transmission (500+ total students).

My eldest daughter's high school also practices mask wearing and social distancing, and although there have been roughly 2 dozen COVID cases by students, again zero documented cases of transmission within school grounds (2k+ students).

My parish has been having in-church services since late June. I volunteer as an usher that helps enforce social distancing between families (and mask wearing). Yesterday I talked to our pastor just prior to Christmas Eve Mass and he said there are still zero documented cases (knock on wood) of COVID transmission in our church services. And we've been having Mass every Sunday since July, 4 to 5 Masses a week, averaging ~200 parishioners per Mass.

The data is in and I'm thoroughly convinced that these measures actually work to help reduce the spread.
 

Brookeland Bill

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
First post! Took over a year for my account to get approved for some reason, but I was content with lurking.

I have conflicting feelings about pool halls and covid. I love pool, I want pool to thrive as a sport, and I want my local pool halls to survive this once in a century affliction. The conflict? Every time I set foot in a pool hall I’m risking not only my life (over 50, hypertensive), but I’m also risking the life of anyone I may come in contact with afterwards. To play a game. Even worse, I’m risking not dying from this virus, or exposing others to - the possibility of the long term consequences of it. No one knows with any certainty what the long term effects this disease has on the vascular system, the heart, the lungs. It reminds me of friends who engaged in risky behaviors in the 70s/80s, eventually grew up and thought they were safe, only to discover HIV and/or hepatitis C. Some of those friends survived long enough for treatments to become available, some didn’t.

Regardless, is someone’s pool hall surviving, and my own desire to find a temporary escape from quarantine hell (been working remotely since March), really worth it? i have already attended the funeral of a friend’s loved one who was vulnerable, after the friend was exposed at a pool hall. Luckily for everyone else on this friend’s league teams, they always wore a mask, properly, or the rest of us would likely have been exposed. For months my local pool halls ignored the state mandated mask policy. Eventually they faced closure from non-compliance, but 9 out of 10 are now wearing masks below their noses or utilizing the exception to the rule thst if you are sitting down with a drink or eating the mask can come off. Expecting a room full of alcohol fueled pool players to implement infection control procedures is futile at best. Most of them have learned from facebook that this virus is a hoax, that masks don’t work, that democrats are lizard people, and so on.

What disturbs me is that I have learned, as a result of this pandemic, that there is a very large percentage of the American population who lack even a scintilla of basic human decency or empathy. They simply don’t care enough to believe that this virus, may in fact, not be a hoax, and that they are risking the health/finances/lives of everyone they come in contact with. And 90% of this risk could be averted by simply wearing a mask, correctly, maintaining a safe distance, and basic hygiene. If everyone had done these simple things for a few weeks back in March, thus wouldn‘t even be a discussion any more. It never had to get to the point of threatening anyone’s freedom or liberty or livelihoods or whatnot. But from the top down, ignorance has been willful and utterly destructive.

Luckily I work in health care and have received my first dose of the pfizer vaccine. In a few weeks I will not have to be worried about risking my own life to go play pool. Maybe I will be able to play a little better not having that worry in the back of my head. Unfortunately, I will still have to worry about others and will still have to wear a mask, it has not been determined yet if those who are vaccinated can still transmit the virus or not.

We are far from being out of the woods, the worst is yet to come. God forbid these non-believers keep this virus in circulation long enough for it to mutate beyond what the latest vaccines can handle. It would seem that if pool hall owners, league operators, and pool players had any sense of self preservation, they would encourage adherence to reasonable precautions, it is clearly in their best interest. But so far it seems they just enjoy shooting themselves in the foot too much. I’m afraid that eventually they are going to end up putting the final nail of pool’s coffin, and I won’t be able to play the game I love so much.
You’re preaching to a segment of society that can only count to 15 and even less when playing 9 ball.
 

De420MadHatter

SicBiNature
Silver Member
You’re preaching to a segment of society that can only count to 15 and even less when playing 9 ball.
Don't be so harsh on yourself brother!
Here's a little science to help you feel better about yourself.


 

De420MadHatter

SicBiNature
Silver Member
The real question is how many cases of in-school transmission were there.

My younger children go to a Catholic school in which they've enforced mask wearing and social distancing since the school year began in late August. Although there have been about a dozen cases of individual students testing positive for COVID in the school year so far, there have been zero documented cases of in school transmission (500+ total students).

My eldest daughter's high school also practices mask wearing and social distancing, and although there have been roughly 2 dozen COVID cases by students, again zero documented cases of transmission within school grounds (2k+ students).

My parish has been having in-church services since late June. I volunteer as an usher that helps enforce social distancing between families (and mask wearing). Yesterday I talked to our pastor just prior to Christmas Eve Mass and he said there are still zero documented cases (knock on wood) of COVID transmission in our church services. And we've been having Mass every Sunday since July, 4 to 5 Masses a week, averaging ~200 parishioners per Mass.

The data is in and I'm thoroughly convinced that these measures actually work to help reduce the spread.
According to a 10million person study, probably 0 even if none of the kids had worn mask.
Keep believing that data, that has 0 science to back it up 👍.
 

De420MadHatter

SicBiNature
Silver Member
 

gerryf

Well-known member
Don't be so harsh on yourself brother!
Here's a little science to help you feel better about yourself.


These articles were written on Nov 22. The number of cases has risen 50% since then. The number of deaths has risen from 1600/day to 2700/day.

Parts of the country that were saying it was an over-reaction have now imposed restrictions.

There have been a couple of studies of states that had different counties with different restrictions in place. Kansas was one of the states looked at, and i can't remember the other, but counties with mask mandates and business restrictions did much better than those that didn't. I'm hoping more studies like that will be done.

I'll see if i can find those papers again.
 

Maxx

AzB Platinum Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Hmm, an article in a student newspaper, by an economist, based on a YouTube video, riddled with inaccuracies.
Good stuff, got me convinced.
 

Patrick53212

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Why not just let it run its course? 1-2% of those infected will die. Life goes on. People either develop immunity or they dont....those that dont may nott make it. People die every day...always have and always will. None of us live forever and tomorrow is not a certainty.
 

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
As brutal as COVID has been, I'm inclined to agree with those who save it has been overblown in America. First and foremost, how many cases there are is a meaningless statistic. Even if every single American had tested positive, what matters is how many lives have been claimed. The answer is about 330,000 to date, less than 1/10 of one percent of the population. Even if we lose another 100,000 people, and the thought of it is downright depressing, COVID will remain a spec in the dust of the history of American health and medicine. The Black Plague claimed about 150,000,000 lives in a four year period in the fourteenth century and roughly 40% of the European population was wiped out, and yet there are many inclined to compare today's pandemic to the Black Plague. Will the history books of the twenty second century even mention COVID? One can rightly wonder.

We must be careful as we proceed through what we hope will be the final months of the pandemic, but each of us must manage the challenge as they see fit. Good luck to everybody on this forum in seeing their way through these awful times.
 

penguin

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
As brutal as COVID has been, I'm inclined to agree with those who save it has been overblown in America. First and foremost, how many cases there are is a meaningless statistic. Even if every single American had tested positive, what matters is how many lives have been claimed. The answer is about 330,000 to date, less than 1/10 of one percent of the population. Even if we lose another 100,000 people, and the thought of it is downright depressing, COVID will remain a spec in the dust of the history of American health and medicine.
So how many preventable American deaths are acceptable to you?

Just asking.
 
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jsp

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
As brutal as COVID has been, I'm inclined to agree with those who save it has been overblown in America. First and foremost, how many cases there are is a meaningless statistic. Even if every single American had tested positive, what matters is how many lives have been claimed. The answer is about 330,000 to date, less than 1/10 of one percent of the population. Even if we lose another 100,000 people, and the thought of it is downright depressing, COVID will remain a spec in the dust of the history of American health and medicine. The Black Plague claimed about 150,000,000 lives in a four year period in the fourteenth century and roughly 40% of the European population was wiped out, and yet there are many inclined to compare today's pandemic to the Black Plague.
The word overblown is a relative term and has many degrees to it. As much as I've been arguing for months in NPR that we should take the virus seriously, I can agree that in certain locales the reactions to it have been "overblown", especially during the spring when our knowledge of the virus was limited.

But if we're comparing COVID to the Black Death, then of course COVID appears as a "spec" compared to that absolute monstrosity that befell on humankind 700 years ago. In terms of deaths COVID is the worst pandemic in America since the Spanish Flu of 1918. Even the Spanish Flu was the case of the sniffles when stacked side-by-side to the Black Death, but I wouldn't label the Spanish Flu as a spec in the dust of the history of American health and medicine. Neither will COVID.

Will the history books of the twenty second century even mention COVID? One can rightly wonder.
No doubt. But my concern is the worse virus that will eventually follow this. As bad as COVID has been, the virus can imaginably be so much worse. Maybe it'll take another century for a pandemic of this magnitude to appear again. But maybe not.

We must be careful as we proceed through what we hope will be the final months of the pandemic, but each of us must manage the challenge as they see fit. Good luck to everybody on this forum in seeing their way through these awful times.
I agree. Everyone be careful out there.
 
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philly

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
As brutal as COVID has been, I'm inclined to agree with those who save it has been overblown in America. First and foremost, how many cases there are is a meaningless statistic. Even if every single American had tested positive, what matters is how many lives have been claimed. The answer is about 330,000 to date, less than 1/10 of one percent of the population. Even if we lose another 100,000 people, and the thought of it is downright depressing, COVID will remain a spec in the dust of the history of American health and medicine. The Black Plague claimed about 150,000,000 lives in a four year period in the fourteenth century and roughly 40% of the European population was wiped out, and yet there are many inclined to compare today's pandemic to the Black Plague. Will the history books of the twenty second century even mention COVID? One can rightly wonder.

We must be careful as we proceed through what we hope will be the final months of the pandemic, but each of us must manage the challenge as they see fit. Good luck to everybody on this forum in seeing their way through these awful times.
I disagree.
Covid will change how we do business, live our lives, and how we view health for at least a decade.
Many things have already changed greatly.
Especially business.
Having a place to go to conduct much of our business was something many companies found that they can do without,
which changes the real estate market.
Many city dwellers have moved.
The unraveling of what we view as normal now will take a while.
 

SBC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
First post! Took over a year for my account to get approved for some reason, but I was content with lurking.

I have conflicting feelings about pool halls and covid. I love pool, I want pool to thrive as a sport, and I want my local pool halls to survive this once in a century affliction. The conflict? Every time I set foot in a pool hall I’m risking not only my life (over 50, hypertensive), but I’m also risking the life of anyone I may come in contact with afterwards. To play a game. Even worse, I’m risking not dying from this virus, or exposing others to - the possibility of the long term consequences of it. No one knows with any certainty what the long term effects this disease has on the vascular system, the heart, the lungs. It reminds me of friends who engaged in risky behaviors in the 70s/80s, eventually grew up and thought they were safe, only to discover HIV and/or hepatitis C. Some of those friends survived long enough for treatments to become available, some didn’t.

Regardless, is someone’s pool hall surviving, and my own desire to find a temporary escape from quarantine hell (been working remotely since March), really worth it? i have already attended the funeral of a friend’s loved one who was vulnerable, after the friend was exposed at a pool hall. Luckily for everyone else on this friend’s league teams, they always wore a mask, properly, or the rest of us would likely have been exposed. For months my local pool halls ignored the state mandated mask policy. Eventually they faced closure from non-compliance, but 9 out of 10 are now wearing masks below their noses or utilizing the exception to the rule thst if you are sitting down with a drink or eating the mask can come off. Expecting a room full of alcohol fueled pool players to implement infection control procedures is futile at best. Most of them have learned from facebook that this virus is a hoax, that masks don’t work, that democrats are lizard people, and so on.

What disturbs me is that I have learned, as a result of this pandemic, that there is a very large percentage of the American population who lack even a scintilla of basic human decency or empathy. They simply don’t care enough to believe that this virus, may in fact, not be a hoax, and that they are risking the health/finances/lives of everyone they come in contact with. And 90% of this risk could be averted by simply wearing a mask, correctly, maintaining a safe distance, and basic hygiene. If everyone had done these simple things for a few weeks back in March, thus wouldn‘t even be a discussion any more. It never had to get to the point of threatening anyone’s freedom or liberty or livelihoods or whatnot. But from the top down, ignorance has been willful and utterly destructive.

Luckily I work in health care and have received my first dose of the pfizer vaccine. In a few weeks I will not have to be worried about risking my own life to go play pool. Maybe I will be able to play a little better not having that worry in the back of my head. Unfortunately, I will still have to worry about others and will still have to wear a mask, it has not been determined yet if those who are vaccinated can still transmit the virus or not.

We are far from being out of the woods, the worst is yet to come. God forbid these non-believers keep this virus in circulation long enough for it to mutate beyond what the latest vaccines can handle. It would seem that if pool hall owners, league operators, and pool players had any sense of self preservation, they would encourage adherence to reasonable precautions, it is clearly in their best interest. But so far it seems they just enjoy shooting themselves in the foot too much. I’m afraid that eventually they are going to end up putting the final nail of pool’s coffin, and I won’t be able to play the game I love so much.
Don't make the mistake of blaming people's actions for the spread of the virus and it's penetrance. This is a seasonal virus, we are just getting to the peak of it's season. We have no data to support the wearing of masks, unless the mask is N95. A cloth scooby doo mask worn under your nose does nothing, neither do plexiglass dividers or mall hepa filters. We are all lucky this isn't what it was billed to be initially...or we would have lost a few million people. It doesn't spread nearly as easy as we have been told. If you feel you could spread it by walking into a pool hall, why don't you just stay home?
 

philly

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Don't make the mistake of blaming people's actions for the spread of the virus and it's penetrance. This is a seasonal virus, we are just getting to the peak of it's season. We have no data to support the wearing of masks, unless the mask is N95. A cloth scooby doo mask worn under your nose does nothing, neither do plexiglass dividers or mall hepa filters. We are all lucky this isn't what it was billed to be initially...or we would have lost a few million people. It doesn't spread nearly as easy as we have been told. If you feel you could spread it by walking into a pool hall, why don't you just stay home?
Seasonal?
Those seasons so far have been Spring, Summer, Fall and Winter.
That's the full YEARLY seasons.
It is not seasonal so far.
It's not going away until enough people contract it or get vaccinated.
I opt for the latter.
I have not been in a poolroom since early March and don't see going to one for a while.
I used to hit a poolroom at least 5 days a week.
I miss them and the guys terribly but I can handle it.
 

westcoast

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Why not just let it run its course? 1-2% of those infected will die. Life goes on. People either develop immunity or they dont....those that dont may nott make it. People die every day...always have and always will. None of us live forever and tomorrow is not a certainty.
I think we have to have the patience to see how the well the vaccine works before attempting to return to life without any restrictions. If it works- great. If not, then I think at some point we do have to start living life as close to as we did before even with the risk of the virus lurking. For now, it is probably best to remain cautious. I think more businesses should be allowed to be open here in Southern California (particularly outdoor dining), but for now people should not be having large gatherings- particularly indoors.

The vaccine should be fully rolled out within the next several months. To be responsible, you have to see if it works well first before throwing all caution to the wind.
 

Maxx

AzB Platinum Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Thanks for
Why not just let it run its course? 1-2% of those infected will die. Life goes on. People either develop immunity or they dont....those that dont may nott make it. People die every day...always have and always will. None of us live forever and tomorrow is not a certainty.
I hope you’re not serious. Do you think our healthcare system would be overloaded on the way to millions of deaths?

“People die every day ....”, what a screwed up outlook you have.
 
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