Product testers wanted, new Jump/Break tip SURE SPC

Kimmo H.

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have been toying around with different breaks with the SPC and I cant say that I have experienced any miscue issues. With a lot of english the sound of hit is indeed very high and may even be mistaken to a miscue. I havent had any more miscues with this than I had with a Taom tip so in my books this is still a nice tip.

And I would be interested to see side by side comparasion with SPC and G10 tips as they do seem a lot like judging by the looks :)

The price of these is a bit high up there but that seems to be the current trend with all the high end tips. I like to think that it money well spent as one will last for so long. That must be a factor in the price too, as they last for a long time there arent many customers buying more than one or two of them :confused:

And I am pretty sure that the price will be different if bought in large quantities as it is with most tips.
 

greyghost

Coast to Coast
Silver Member
I shape with a blade, then when at the right radius, just touch the surface with the 100 grit to make sure there is a scuffed surface all the way across. I really don't think it was an install issue, as I do the same for other very similar break tips and they
work great.
The players that tried this tip were not the run-of-the mill 6-7"s in APA, these are legit A level players and some way above that, that know a thing or two about a thing or two. That is why I installed it on his cue, as I knew it would be evaluated by people that know what they are doing. The price point of this tip is focused on these type of players, IMO, because if my cost is $25, then I have to get $45 + per install, and that isn't the normal guys price range for JUST a break tip. Unfortunately, my opinion is that it falls below the statements and expectations, especially compared to G10 tips which look and shape identically, don't have the miscue issue, or slide effect as this tip did, and I install them for the same cost as just buying this tip, then the install charge, and I also do a shaft cleaning / ding removal for the final cost of $25.
Sorry if the results I posted aren't welcomed, maybe the tip was defective, but the results were what they were.
Dave

oh not its not that they aren't welcome, i'm glad you posted ,wasn't trying to say you dont know what your doing and such bud lol....i dont like non leather tips at all for my own reasons (old school) but the tip performed so good imop that it just made me think possibly the install? maybe was a bad one.....just posted a brain fart as to possible causes is all my friend.

i agree with some that these reviews are going to have to go on for a while to really get a gear on the tip.

I'd recommend sending another tip to you for further testing.......compare it to the one you have installed already.
 

Kimmo H.

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I got myself an Air2 jump cue recently, guess what is on it now :rolleyes:

The sound of hit is really hard tink sound but for jumping I have yet to have any cracks on the CB :smile: Im liking it well now, some day I'll get a Hammerhead to try out and then settle with one tip. As of now the SPC is the best jump tip I have had the pleasure of jumping with :smile:
 
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MVPCues

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I was one of the first to request the tip for testing. I won't post any pictures. There are already some fine ones posted.

I installed the tip on a custom jump break that I built for a local customer. I have broken many times with that cue. When I install tips, I shape them about half the roundness I do for a player. The SURE tip I intalled was not quite as round as the one Dave38 posted a picture of. I scuffed it after shaping while still spinning in the lathe with a 24 grit aluminum oxide sanding belt (very course and doesn't give).

When I break with a hard leather tip, I am around 20 MPH. When I break with a white diamond I am around 22.

After getting my baseline with a white diamond (22) installed on the cue, I immediately installed the SPC and went back to the table. I lost 1 MPH, and I lost a little consistency in the feel and MPH spread. I agree with Dave38 that it felt to me like it had little grip. I was not miscuing, but it felt to me like the tip was sliding or slipping. I don't know how else to describe it. There were a few breaks where contact felt right, but most did not.

I had a teammate review it with me at the same time. He came to roughly the same conclusion on his own. He scuffed it again with his all metal scuffer. It did not seem to help him. Like me, he was not miscuing. It was a more of a feel of wanting to miscue. He did not lose speed like I did, but his results were less consistent (we established a baseline for him also) with the SPC as well.

I repeated comparisons on another day against a hard leather tip. Again, with the SPC, results were a somewhat inconsistent 21 MPH. With a hard leather tip, there was a more consistent feeling and a more consistent 20 MPH.

All breaks were measured with the predator app with the phone placed in the same position relative to the cueball. Obvious bad breaks due to piloting error (not many) were thrown out. I chalked before every break for every tip.

Is it a good break tip? It certainly is a very hard material and I would say it performed OK. There was no dramatic drop in speed or results with it, but I did not like the feel and I was personally less consistent with it. It might be a good option for some. I would not choose it over a hard leather or a white diamond, the two tips I directly compared it to.

In regards to a product review, to some extent, the cost is irrelevant. However, I am compelled to point out that the cost to me for one of these tips would be higher than what I charge local customers to install a break tip. Everyone's market is different, of course.

I am not a good jumper, so I did not do any jumping comparisons with the tip.
 
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Kimmo H.

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I wondered about the difference between SPC and regular G10 before in this thread and today I finally had the time to compare the two and take some pics to show you guys too :smile:

There is a clear color difference between the two, SPC is a darker shade of green and it also has more distinct weave pattern on it. Thats the visual difference with these two materials. Pic below shows this quite well (G10 ferrule and two SPC tips in comparasion.)

0D6Jns9.jpg


And the difference in weave pattern is even more clear on installed and polished tips, as can be seen below:

S2IjpFb.jpg

SPC tip on a Air2.

5PwmnDc.jpg

Green G10 ferrule / tip on a Players J/B

Performance is quite similiar for both fresh from the lathe as both have enough grip and they are equally hard. I would love to see a hardness comparasion between these two materials, maybe someone here has the equipment to do that :wink:
But in long time use the G10 tip starts losing its grip and it wont take chalk as well as its counterpart the SPC. SPC holds its grip for a really long time and it feels a bit coarser when applying chalk. I believe the coarser weave pattern is the main difference here? Both tips can be scuffed back to install like grip with a piece of sand paper, just make some scrathes on them for the chalk to bite on. I find myself doing this to the G10 pretty often, where I have only done this once for the SPC and that was just to see how it is to work with by hand.
oF0tNoN.jpg

Freshly chalked tips side by side. Both chalked in the same manner, swiping the Master chalk on gently while rotating the cue. The thickness of chalk on the tip is clearly different, SPC seems to hold quite a bit more of chalk on its surface.


Long story short; G10 and SPC perform a lot like. SPC is like a premiun G10, it holds chalk a lot better with a less maintenance.

Neither of the materials are perfect but SPC is closer to that. The sound they both make is very, very sharp on impact when breaking with and that can be a turn off for some players. I am very pleased with the tip and I can easily justify the extra cost over G10 to myself. It is up to each and everyones personal opinion what they should use on their jump or break cues. All I'm saying is that SPC is definitely worth a try, it's a premium tip just like the Taom, Zento and Hammerhead tips are.
 
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RFranklin

Ready, fire...aim
Silver Member
Spc

Kimmo - Great photos and summation. That install looks really nice too. I received one of the tips a while back and gave a short review that was similar to yours. That last photo really shows how the chalk adheres better than the regular G10 too. I was told by a cue repair guy last week that tips like this have a tendency to pop off because there isn't as much surface area for the glue to bite into but no problems so far. Maybe, like the chalk, the glue has more to grab. Either way, still love mine. Thanks again DD.
 

Hits 'em Hard

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
SPC Tip Review

I had this tip on my break cue since I received in it in early May until today when it broke.

During the initial install, I was worried that this tip might be too hard. It machines like crap. Unlike other suggestions, I would say this tip can be without a lathe. Don't confuse that with me saying you can install it by hand, because you cannot. It needs power assistance to effectively get it down to size. I will probably try and acquire some diamond grinding bits to use the next time I install one of these.

Beyond the fact that it's hard as hell to machine, it's too hard for me to break with. Due to how hard it really is, it's lacking the elasticity I need from a tip. It was a concern from the initial break I had. I felt as if the ball was magnetically opposed to me wanting to hit it. It transferred the energy of my break so well, I had to relearn how to break with that cue. The upside to that is full cue jumping with my break cue became laughably easy.

To say this tip for breaking is bad would be the wrong thing to say. It's just not a fit for me. I would still say for 99% of the pool players out there, this tip would be the best tip for a break cue they ever used. As far as the other 1%, this tip will not provide enough of a difference in breaking to warrant an immediate change.

I'm still thrilled about the way it jumped so well that I ordered a tip to put on my jump cue. No matter how I feel about this tips breaking characteristics, it's jumping characteristics were enough to convince me to want to try it on my jump cue. I ordered two tips, I'm not sure if I'll install a second tip for breaking again or not.

Attached hopefully are pictures of where my tip broke and the weave pattern of the tip.
 

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SQB

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
We are very happy about the overall positive feedback!

As we give warranty on our tips we will, even if it was a test tip, send you a new one.
We are also very accomodating to replace the SPC in case of a complaint in a common time period.
Additionally, we want you to trust in the SPC if you like it and are happy for all of your support!
 

Kim Bye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So, I`ve had the SPC tip for a while now. I installed it on my Mezz DIP-H break shaft, wich I`m very familiar with and have tried just about every break tip on the market on.
The first thing that struck me was the similarity to regular G10 from Atlas, but when I checked a G10 rod vs the SPC, there are some differences, but it IS a G10 type material.
As a result it`s rock hard to machine, wich means this tip is next to impossible to install by hand.
I was very exited to try this tip, so I went to the poolhall and did 10 ball breaks for about 3 hours.
I have a pretty decent break and good CB controll, but I struggled with consistency when using the SPC tip, but I have kept it on for a few months and let as many players as possible try the tip. The general feedback is the lack of CB controll. SPC transfers power really well, but the downside is lack of controll. I tried som jump shots with the SPC tip and felt it worked better in that capacity. But at the end I just had to take the tip off and put on a new Taom and my CB controll was right back again.
I`m gonna install a SPC on mye Airdrive jump cue, when my Taom is worn down and see how that works.
more to come...
 

The Renfro

Outsville.com
Silver Member
I had this tip on my break cue since I received in it in early May until today when it broke.

During the initial install, I was worried that this tip might be too hard. It machines like crap. Unlike other suggestions, I would say this tip can be without a lathe. Don't confuse that with me saying you can install it by hand, because you cannot. It needs power assistance to effectively get it down to size. I will probably try and acquire some diamond grinding bits to use the next time I install one of these.

Beyond the fact that it's hard as hell to machine, it's too hard for me to break with. Due to how hard it really is, it's lacking the elasticity I need from a tip. It was a concern from the initial break I had. I felt as if the ball was magnetically opposed to me wanting to hit it. It transferred the energy of my break so well, I had to relearn how to break with that cue. The upside to that is full cue jumping with my break cue became laughably easy.

To say this tip for breaking is bad would be the wrong thing to say. It's just not a fit for me. I would still say for 99% of the pool players out there, this tip would be the best tip for a break cue they ever used. As far as the other 1%, this tip will not provide enough of a difference in breaking to warrant an immediate change.

I'm still thrilled about the way it jumped so well that I ordered a tip to put on my jump cue. No matter how I feel about this tips breaking characteristics, it's jumping characteristics were enough to convince me to want to try it on my jump cue. I ordered two tips, I'm not sure if I'll install a second tip for breaking again or not.

Attached hopefully are pictures of where my tip broke and the weave pattern of the tip.

How much have you played since early May and how hard is your average break?????
 

cuechanger

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hi Guys,
i´m Markus from DoubleDave Cues and the buisiness-partner of DoubleDave and Andreas Sure. I response the Distribution of the SPC-Tips and was involved in all testings and the placement into the markets.
Now we have half a year passed with the new tip and we got back many feedbacks, impressions and experiences. I try to review the most important of them in a short overview:

- The Material is related to a G10, but there is an essential difference: The fiber the SPC is made from is not slick, but rough, what gives the tip grip and the faculty to controll the cueball.
- It holds chalk much better than a G10, but even if the chalk has gone, the tip has stil naturla grip from its own. In our first testings we made dozends of controlled jumps without chalking new.
- You need a lathe to install it. The material is to hard to cut it with a manual blade.
- In case you use it for a Jump-Cue you should drag a dome that is equal to the dome of the Cueball to get maximum grip to this. rounder is better in this case.
- In Case you use it for a Breaker you may keep the dome a hint more flat to get maximum controll.
- If you use it for a J/B-Cue, i would personaly prefer the rounder dome. To break with this is stil very easy, if you`ll set your focus in the controlling of the breakshot and not in maximum power. This tip is so hard and direct, that you don`t need too much power to get excellent break-results. Lesser Power with more controll will bring you more effect on the rack.
- We decided to offer the SPC in a slim size, not cause we`re to cheap to make it thicker, but cause it works at the best if it is slim on the ferule.
- 90% of our testers where very satisfied. Of course some was not. Different players has different socializations in their game and so thee tip works not for everyone as well as for others. This is like the cues... If their was the one and only best cue, we would play all the same stick...:wink: But in the end we`re sure to have a tip, that will help the most players in their game.

I hope that this is a helpfull overview and i excuse for my bad English. :sorry:

We are stil in the begining to launch this product. In this moment we make the exclusiv distribution for it. We already found a dealer for singapore and we`re in touch with one for the US-Market. We are searching now for more dealers for all global areas and we offer dealer-conditions graded to the quantity of an order. Please contact me or DoubleDave for more information.

Best Regards
Markus
 
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Double-Dave

Developing cue-addict
Silver Member
How much have you played since early May and how hard is your average break?????

Renfro, first post of yours I just ignored, second I replied to respectfully
letting you know we are not interested in you (as one of our competitors)
doing destructive testing on our tips.

Now I am asking you a little less polite, please mind your own business
and we will take care of ours.

Respectfully
Dave Heijboer
 

Hits 'em Hard

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
How much have you played since early May and how hard is your average break?????

I wanted to reply when you did, but I wanted to be sure of what I had to say. From the initial day I installed it, I had a feeling I would be able to break it. And I did. I broke enough times that I re-shaped the tip twice after the initial shaping to see if there was any perceivable difference. There really wasn't. On my last shaping I flattened the radius down. That was two weeks before the tip broke. The tip height was still twice what my old Samsara was and that tip never had an issue in 4 years.

To directly answer your question. I would say that I broke enough times in those approximate two months that an average league player would take a year to do. Five to six times a week playing/practicing. The speed of the break that the tip broke on would have probably been around 26mph. The max I had was somewhere around 30mph, maybe a little higher. The would say I break slightly faster with the Samsara though. But I can't jump as well with a Samsara as well as the SPC jumps.


Hi Guys,
i´m Markus from DoubleDave Cues and the buisiness-partner of DoubleDave and Andreas Sure. I response the Distribution of the SPC-Tips and was involved in all testings and the placement into the markets.
Now we have half a year passed with the new tip and we got back many feedbacks, impressions and experiences. I try to review the most important of them in a short overview:

- The Material is related to a G10, but there is an essential difference: The fiber the SPC is made from is not slick, but rough, what gives the tip grip and the faculty to controll the cueball.
- It holds chalk much better than a G10, but even if the chalk has gone, the tip has stil naturla grip from its own. In our first testings we made dozends of controlled jumps without chalking new.
- You need a lathe to install it. The material is to hard to cut it with a manual blade.
- In case you use it for a Jump-Cue you should drag a dome that is equal to the dome of the Cueball to get maximum grip to this. rounder is better in this case.
- In Case you use it for a Breaker you may keep the dome a hint more flat to get maximum controll.
- If you use it for a J/B-Cue, i would personaly prefer the rounder dome. To break with this is stil very easy, if you`ll set your focus in the controlling of the breakshot and not in maximum power. This tip is so hard and direct, that you don`t need too much power to get excellent break-results. Lesser Power with more controll will bring you more effect on the rack.
- We decided to offer the SPC in a slim size, not cause we`re to niggard to make it thicker, but cause it works at the best if it is slim on the ferule.
- 90% of our testers where very satisfied. Of course some was not. Different players has different socializations in their game and so thee tip works not for everyone as well as for others. This is like the cues... If their was the one and only best cue, we would play all the same stick...:wink: But in the end we`re sure to have a tip, that will help the most players in their game.

I hope that this is a helpfull overview and i excuse for my bad English. :sorry:

We are stil in the begining to launch this product. In this moment we make the exclusiv distribution for it. We already found a dealer for singapore and we`re in touch with one for the US-Market. We are searching now for more dealers for all global areas and we offer dealer-conditions graded to the quantity of an order. Please contact me or DoubleDave for more information.

Best Regards
Markus

I've attached a photo of a layer of the tip. One thing I noticed was how flexible it is. It didn't break very easily. But when bent far enough, it snapped cleanly. Didn't shatter or disintegrate. As far as how thick the tip is, it's too thin. I think that's partially why it broke.

I have since changed my opinion on this SPC tip as a break tip. It's not worth it. There are plenty of other tips that are just as hard that are better in my opinion. I still haven't received my other tips yet, so I'm not going to give any feedback for jumping yet. But like I said, I was impressed with how well it made my breaker full cue jump.
 

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cuechanger

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I realy think, that you just had bad luck. The defect-rate until today is 1%. In every product it may happen, that there is a failure sometimes. Since all the other tips we sold or tested didn`t break, i guess there was a material-failure in your tip. I realised to late, that the order that i got in the shop is from you, otherwise i had added a third tip as replacement for the broken one. Anyway, i will send 2 tips additional to you in a second letter.
Your order is on the way, but the post sometimes needs 2-3 weeks from Germany to the US. This is one reason why we`re searching for a US-Dealer here.
I hope you will not have any more issues with the new tips and i ask you kindly to try it again on your breaker and let us know how it works.
Best Regards
Markus
 

Hits 'em Hard

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I realy think, that you just had bad luck. The defect-rate until today is 1%. In every product it may happen, that there is a failure sometimes. Since all the other tips we sold or tested didn`t break, i guess there was a material-failure in your tip. I realised to late, that the order that i got in the shop is from you, otherwise i had added a third tip as replacement for the broken one. Anyway, i will send 2 tips additional to you in a second letter.
Your order is on the way, but the post sometimes needs 2-3 weeks from Germany to the US. This is one reason why we`re searching for a US-Dealer here.
I hope you will not have any more issues with the new tips and i ask you kindly to try it again on your breaker and let us know how it works.
Best Regards
Markus

I never said once the tip was defective. I said it broke. It's breakage was probably due to me trying to break it. I didn't let up on it once. From day 1 I didn't feel it broke nearly as well as a Samsara tip. After I reinstalled another Samsara after the SPC broke, I reaffirmed my suspicion. But that doesn't take away from the fact that I could full cue jump with it easier than 99% of all other tips out there does say something. I never had grip issues when breaking, it was awesome for control. Just personally myself do I find a Samsara better for breaking. With the price point once you get a US distributor set up, it should be very comparable to a Samsara tip price wise, maybe a bit more.

It's not a bad tip, it's just not a fit for me and my break.
 

cuechanger

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yes, its always a question of personal likings. A synthetic tip will always feel different than a real Leather of course. But back to the broken SPC -i´m not sure if i understood everything right with my "denglish" here- i think, that a Break-Tip should stand all Breaks, anyway how hard they are. For that it is a Break-Tip. And if it breaks -not the rack, but in 2 pieces :smile:- there should be something wrong and so i will replace it.
 

The Renfro

Outsville.com
Silver Member
Renfro, first post of yours I just ignored, second I replied to respectfully
letting you know we are not interested in you (as one of our competitors)
doing destructive testing on our tips.

Now I am asking you a little less polite, please mind your own business
and we will take care of ours.

Respectfully
Dave Heijboer

Respectfully it's an open Forum... Yes I make a competing tip... I also test tips and was one of the voices who helped to get Taom to address their V1.0 Issues where they were shattering and destroying high dollar shafts along with them...

If the new tip performs and does not fail catastrophically I wish you all the luck in the world but I will be testing them soon...

The fact that Hits 'em Hard really does play a lot and breaks harder than like 95% of the pool playing population is actually promising as the fail rate may indeed be very low OR there was a problem with the install...

In a synthetic material like G10 or something related the chances of a faulty tip is slim to none as they are engineered materials and uniform in characteristics or the material would not be suitable for industrial applications....
 

Hits 'em Hard

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The Renfro said:
The fact that Hits 'em Hard really does play a lot and breaks harder than like 95% of the pool playing population is actually promising as the fail rate may indeed be very low OR there was a problem with the install...

In a synthetic material like G10 or something related the chances of a faulty tip is slim to none as they are engineered materials and uniform in characteristics or the material would not be suitable for industrial applications....

It doesn't matter how uniform the material is if the design of the material isn't capable of withstanding the abuse of the application it's involved in. I own a MidAmerica lathe. I doubt my install was faulty. I have another break cue that I'll install another SPC tip onto. both of my break cues are are pretty much the same as far as the size of tip/weight/balance. Only real difference is one is a piloted joint and the other is flat face. I'll see if I can notice a difference between the SPC tip that broke and a new one. If after a week of usage I still feel like I can break the tip again, I'm going to try.
 

Double-Dave

Developing cue-addict
Silver Member
Respectfully it's an open Forum... Yes I make a competing tip... I also test tips and was one of the voices who helped to get Taom to address their V1.0 Issues where they were shattering and destroying high dollar shafts along with them...

If the new tip performs and does not fail catastrophically I wish you all the luck in the world but I will be testing them soon...

The fact that Hits 'em Hard really does play a lot and breaks harder than like 95% of the pool playing population is actually promising as the fail rate may indeed be very low OR there was a problem with the install...

In a synthetic material like G10 or something related the chances of a faulty tip is slim to none as they are engineered materials and uniform in characteristics or the material would not be suitable for industrial applications....

Yes, it is an open forum. This does not mean you get to do or say whatever you want to. There are
still rules, regulations and laws in place.

We have nothing against objective testing done by the public, as we quite clearly demonstrate
here by sending tips to a broad range of users. What we do have a problem with is subjective testing
by our competitors. Shouldn't be that hard to grasp should it?

Respectfully
Dave Heijboer
 

KRJ

Support UKRAINE
Silver Member
Had my tip installed over the weekend. He put a little "nub" in the center of the bottom of tip, and drilled small hole in ferrule, so that the tip does not move from any sideways force. He's a known cue maker with a great reputation, so I think the tip will stay on for quite awhile. And he installed it in less than 20 minutes including the shaping.

Been breaking the past few days with it at home... at least 100 breaks. So far, so good. It's a great tip, no issues, chalks well, but I was cheating by using Magic CHalk ;) Not sure how well hard tips chalk up on just the "regular" stuff... I do have some old Silver Cup at home but just could not bring myself to use it.

I like it for 8 ball, but I LOVE it for 9 ball. I was breaking on 9 foot table. Also, jumps better than the break !!!!

I didn't want to put the tip on my OB or Mezz break cue, cause I wanted to see how the tip performed, and not the "cue". I had an old jump break cue I bought years ago for $35 used, as I used it as a bar beater cue that I could play and break with in the hole in the wall places. Thus, it's not a great cue by any stretch, it's a no name brand, thus, maybe a $90 cue new ???

Thus, I could actually use this cue now in league if I wanted to for jumping or breaking. So, it's certainly the tip and not the "cue". So far I like the tip a lot.
 
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