Product testers wanted, new Jump/Break tip SURE SPC

Hits 'em Hard

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member

SPC tip on a Air2.

So I received the two SPC tips I ordered today. Both of them thicker than the first one I got sent. And both of them are different thickness from each other.

On to the install on my jump cue. Pretty much the same as before. But one thing I noticed while cutting, and the reason I quoted that picture. Too fast of a cut or too deep starts to fracture the edge of the tip. All those white spots on that Air2 SPC are mini fractures at the seems of the weave. I never noticed those spots occurring during the intial break cue install, but I also took way longer to install that one than my jump cue.

After experiencing those fractures from the install process, I would say that even a lathe isn't going to install the SPC better than by hand. It'll just be way quicker. I don't know what process Kimmo used, and I won't venture a guess either. I will say that I will definitely be getting some diamond grinding bits for a dremel to do installs on G10/SPC tips and any other super hard tip from here on out.
 

poolguy4u

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
:thumbup:


My break tip is still working great.


Installing and cutting was a breeze. I use a real lathe and carbide cutting tools.

If your tip looks like it's chipped or cracked, your machine is not set up right.

Your cutting tool may be above center.
Your cutting tool might not have enough clearance angle.
Your cutting tool might not be sharpened right.
The tip may be sticking out of the chuck or collet too far and causing chatter.
The tool would be pushing and not cutting.
Your cutting tool might be from Harbor Freight and made in China.

If you know what you are doing, there is no problem cutting this material or any other material.



:rolleyes:




.
 
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Kim Bye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hard to say from the picture, but it could just be debris from sanding, that has stuck in the pores of the SPC G10 material?
Mine didn't look that way when I installed it.
 

SQB

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It's definitely unusual that it looks that way. Just give it a light sand and quick polish.
 

Kimmo H.

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The tip is showing the weave pattern excessively as the lighting in that particular picture is very bright and adjusted to show the structure of the tip. It enhances the difference between regular G10 material and SPC. I didnt polish the sides with anything more than 2000 grit sandpaper for that picture either.


Here is the same SPC tip polished up as far as it will go in normal lighting.

Sanded with grits, 600 - 1200 - 1500 - 2000 and polished with Mirka Polarshine 10 :)
S2IjpFb.jpg


The material has very rough fiber pattern, it leaves small marks on the surface no matter how well it is polished up. The marks are purely cosmetic, they cannot be felt nor do they absorb any more chalk than the the rest of the tip.

I still like it a ton on the jumper. Really easy to jump with and requires very little maintenance.
 
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Hits 'em Hard

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hard to say from the picture, but it could just be debris from sanding, that has stuck in the pores of the SPC G10 material?
Mine didn't look that way when I installed it.

The material itself isn't porous at all. But yes, you are correct in that white stuff is just dust. But how does dust still do that to a non porous material? It's all down to how the tip is made. The weave is basically bonded seamlessly and there are no flaws on the material. So if the dust found a spot to sit in these "pores", which shouldn't exist. Then the only explanation is that weave is getting mini fractures from the tooling on install.

The tip is showing the weave pattern excessively as the lighting in that particular picture is very bright and adjusted to show the structure of the tip. It enhances the difference between regular G10 material and SPC. I didnt polish the sides with anything more than 2000 grit sandpaper for that picture either.


Here is the same SPC tip polished up as far as it will go in normal lighting.

Sanded with grits, 600 - 1200 - 1500 - 2000 and polished with Mirka Polarshine 10 :)



The material has very rough fiber pattern, it leaves small marks on the surface no matter how well it is polished up. The marks are purely cosmetic, they cannot be felt nor do they absorb any more chalk than the the rest of the tip.

I still like it a ton on the jumper. Really easy to jump with and requires very little maintenance.

Nothing there is very telling of the true story. Once you applied the polish to the tip, it cleaned all the dust out of those fractured areas. If you still have some dust from the tip install left, get some and rub it around the edge of the tip and those mini fractures will be seen again.

And the marks are not cosmetic at all. In a material that should produce a flawless finish on the side, having dust be able to collect in the "pores" of the material leads me to believe that it's not cosmetic. I never saw those "pores" from my first SPC tip install. I only saw them this install time because I was cutting the tip quicker than last time.

You guys need to trust me on this one. I have experience with the weave of the tip you guys don't. I was able to brute force a tip into splitting in half. It gave me insight to what should and shouldn't be seen on the install. And the tip should not ever look like dust is stuck on the side of the tip ever.
 

Double-Dave

Developing cue-addict
Silver Member
The material itself isn't porous at all. But yes, you are correct in that white stuff is just dust. But how does dust still do that to a non porous material? It's all down to how the tip is made. The weave is basically bonded seamlessly and there are no flaws on the material. So if the dust found a spot to sit in these "pores", which shouldn't exist. Then the only explanation is that weave is getting mini fractures from the tooling on install.

Nothing there is very telling of the true story. Once you applied the polish to the tip, it cleaned all the dust out of those fractured areas. If you still have some dust from the tip install left, get some and rub it around the edge of the tip and those mini fractures will be seen again.

And the marks are not cosmetic at all. In a material that should produce a flawless finish on the side, having dust be able to collect in the "pores" of the material leads me to believe that it's not cosmetic. I never saw those "pores" from my first SPC tip install. I only saw them this install time because I was cutting the tip quicker than last time.

You guys need to trust me on this one. I have experience with the weave of the tip you guys don't. I was able to brute force a tip into splitting in half. It gave me insight to what should and shouldn't be seen on the install. And the tip should not ever look like dust is stuck on the side of the tip ever.

Who said the material should produce a flawless finish on the side ;)
The Sure SPC material like G10 is not 100% uniform throughout. It's a weave
soaked in a resin and as such if you look closely enough different parts of the
side will look and behave differently.

What you are seeing is quite normal, this material being similar to G10 contains
quite a bit of woven fiberglass. When you cut through it with a less then great cutter
or wrong speed the results will not be perfect.

Fiberglass being quite rough (espescially in this particular material) will catch dust.
This is great for the top of the tip where it holds chalk really well but when cutting the
tip can produce these white spots. These are not mini fractures or chips, it is just
the makeup of the base material doing what it does. If you have your lathe/cutter set up
just right it will be pretty much babyskin smooth, if not then you will have to polish the
sides a little to clean them up.

gr. Dave
 

cuechanger

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The reason why we have more smooth sites after we installed our tips here may be that we use realy heavy industrial lathes with very high revs and after we polished them, the sites are always very smooth.
 

Hits 'em Hard

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Who said the material should produce a flawless finish on the side ;)
The Sure SPC material like G10 is not 100% uniform throughout. It's a weave
soaked in a resin and as such if you look closely enough different parts of the
side will look and behave differently.

What you are seeing is quite normal, this material being similar to G10 contains
quite a bit of woven fiberglass. When you cut through it with a less then great cutter
or wrong speed the results will not be perfect.

Fiberglass being quite rough (espescially in this particular material) will catch dust.
This is great for the top of the tip where it holds chalk really well but when cutting the
tip can produce these white spots. These are not mini fractures or chips, it is just
the makeup of the base material doing what it does. If you have your lathe/cutter set up
just right it will be pretty much babyskin smooth, if not then you will have to polish the
sides a little to clean them up.

gr. Dave

Well if you're implying that the sides shouldn't be flawless then maybe I'll stick with materials and products already out there that do.
 

Double-Dave

Developing cue-addict
Silver Member
Well if you're implying that the sides shouldn't be flawless then maybe I'll stick with materials and products already out there that do.

We (or actually Andreas) chose our material because of how it performs, and when installed
correctly as you can see in the pictures posted by others it looks nice too.
I am sure there are other materials that polish up nicer, but none that perform better.

Kind regards, Dave.
 

SQB

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It surprises me that, only because Kimmo showed an unpolished tip, these claims about the side finish occured.

He already showed how nice the tip looks just after hitting it with a nice little touch up with fine grit sandpaper and a quick polish.

We fieldtested the tip for about a year before we decided to go into public.

As Kimmo also showed in his videoclip about the tip install. We recommend sharp carbide cutting tools for the precut. If done right you will have very decent results after sanding and polishing.

If someone seriously need advice in installing a tip that is to be treated like a phenolic tip, please message me and I am really looking forward to help you out.
 

MrPoolZen

Rack Em!
Silver Member
Review of SPC tip for jumping.

Hello everyone,

My name is Chad and I live in Las Vegas. I purchased a cue from Dave a few years ago and appreciate Dave and this offering to test the SPC tip.

First of all, my thanks to you both for introducing your tip for trial. I appreciate the fact
you tested this tip for over a year before releasing it to the public.

I was hoping to receive my tip in April during the APA here the last week in April. My
installer Joe Blackburn would have installed it for me then on my break/jump cue. My
tip arrived after the APA and I had to wait until the last week in July when Joe would be
back in town for the BCA.

I've been reading all of the excellent reviews for the past 3 months and want to thank everyone who responded regarding their input on the SPC tip. Knowledge is power.

Over the last 3 months I decided to put my tip on my Gino Ferrari jump cue due to the
very positive responses on how well it jumps. I'm very happy I did. Joe did a great job
on the install and I'm very happy with the results.

Stability, Power, and Control describe this tip perfectly on how well it performs on my
jump cue. Great name guys!

I have only been using your tip for the past week now, and I will be keeping it on my jump cue and recommending your tip to my fellow players and Joe Blackburn too.

Obviously jump shots are not near as hard as the break shots are. My concern is
Stability, Power, and Control on my jump shots and your tip exceeds my criteria in
every way. You convinced me.

Thanks for everything and shoot straight everyone.

Chad
 

Cuebaldness

Registered
The reaction and expectation for someone to "mind their own business" on a public forum leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Do you think he can't order one and do the test on his own to slander you if that was his intention? He's free to ask anyone any questions he wishes so long as they don't break the forum rules. You're also free to not answer his questions. That's it. I think asking someone how much they play after a tip cracks in half a few months later is a pretty fair question. QC seems questionable with 2 bad reviews in such a small sample. A lot more testing seems in order before I'd spend the money on it.
 

cuechanger

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Before we decided to go into the AZ with the Tip, we wanted to be sure, to have a real good product. So we tested a long time by our owns and after this we made a test like this in the european BA-Forum. The results was pretty positive. So our look to the testing phase is much more longer and for us this was the first broken tip after 200 of them. This is a good quote i guess. Of course an accident like this could happen always. Its just a matter of fate in this case and we have to stand it. Perhaps it was a failure in the material, perhaps something was wrong with the installation, we never will know it in the end and this also doesn`t matter. We replaced the tip and we`ll wait for the second testing there. If i compare this with the TAOM, i guess there was many more defects for a tip that is more expensive, so i sleep well with this without any bad taste anywhere.
We also know, that this forum is a hard place to intrduce any new products. We was watching other tests like this before. And this was the reason, why we surely where not interessted in a direct competitor in the couple of test-persons, cause we was searching for independent testers. We also didn`t invite our friends to test for the same reasons. I could understand this if anybody else would act like this and i hope most of the guys here understand this also.
 
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Double-Dave

Developing cue-addict
Silver Member
The reaction and expectation for someone to "mind their own business" on a public forum leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Do you think he can't order one and do the test on his own to slander you if that was his intention? He's free to ask anyone any questions he wishes so long as they don't break the forum rules. You're also free to not answer his questions. That's it. I think asking someone how much they play after a tip cracks in half a few months later is a pretty fair question. QC seems questionable with 2 bad reviews in such a small sample. A lot more testing seems in order before I'd spend the money on it.

I can only suggest you look a little more into who The Renfro is, that will clear up a lot.

In a nutshell, The Renfro is a competing tip manufacturer who has had quite a few run-ins
with other manufacturers, several of them right on this forum.

His questions and inquiries are far from unbiased.

If you want some examples:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=5615923
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=5562202

I could find more but do not want to waste time on it.

Kind regards, Dave
 

Hits 'em Hard

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Before we decided to go into the AZ with the Tip, we wanted to be sure, to have a real good product. So we tested a long time by our owns and after this we made a test like this in the european BA-Forum. The results was pretty positive. So our look to the testing phase is much more longer and for us this was the first broken tip after 200 of them. This is a good quote i guess. Of course an accident like this could happen always. Its just a matter of fate in this case and we have to stand it. Perhaps it was a failure in the material, perhaps something was wrong with the installation, we never will know it in the end and this also doesn`t matter. We replaced the tip and we`ll wait for the second testing there. If i compare this with the TAOM, i guess there was many more defects for a tip that is more expensive, so i sleep well with this without any bad taste anywhere.
We also know, that this forum is a hard place to intrduce any new products. We was watching other tests like this before. And this was the reason, why we surely where not interessted in a direct competitor in the couple of test-persons, cause we was searching for independent testers. We also didn`t invite our friends to test for the same reasons. I could understand this if anybody else would act like this and i hope most of the guys here understand this also.

Now that the attachment problem has been fixed I can upload more photos easier.

So I don't know how "premium" of a product you're attempting to market here, but from the tips I've received so far(5) none have been the same height. Or ever remotely close to the same height. When comparing the height of the SPC tip that I installed on my Lomax jump cue vs the tip that was installed on there. It was the same height as the one that was already shaped, leaving little wiggle room for the radius to be cut.

I've attached a picture showing a Samsarain comparison to the SPC tips I still have. I have more Samsara tips, all nearly the same height. Notice how that middle SPC even has a slant to the top? Yea, not premium in my book.

After more time spent with the SPC tip on my jump cue, I believe I've exhausted all possible time for giving a definitive review. Not worth it. Due to the price point, even with a USA/North American distributor will be too high for any perceived change in the cues breaking or jumping capabilities. There are products out there that perform just as well or better for less. The overall attitude towards me regarding the feedback given has been rather negative. My experience with the SPC tip does not match up with the sales pitch in the slightest.
 

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ROB.M

:)
Silver Member
Post

This is odd... I've not had any of these issues you have.. Anyone else shatter one of these tips...? I think your negativity has gotten you the shit end of the stick...
I've put this tip up against some beasts over and over with no problems.
Oh' if your hitting the break with all your might... This tip does not require a big Ed spread blast of a break to get the balls in the pockets and spread well across the table.

If your breaking/cracking the tip is mostly likely do to ferrule compression, use a capped ferrule on your break cue.
I've got players beating down my door for these tips.

I think your getting the treatment that the ppl get when there food is returned from a fast food place because of not enough mayo is put on your sandwich..




Rob.M
 
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Hits 'em Hard

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This is odd... I've not had any of these issues you have.. Anyone else shatter one of these tips...? I think your negativity has gotten you the shit end of the stick...
I've put this tip up against some beasts over and over with no problems.
Oh' if your hitting the break with all your might... This tip does not require a big Ed spread blast of a break to get the balls in the pockets and spread well across the table.

If your breaking/cracking the tip is mostly likely do to ferrule compression, use a capped ferrule on your break cue.
I've got players beating down my door for these tips.

I think your getting the treatment that the ppl get when there food is returned from a fast food place because of not enough mayo is put on your sandwich..




Rob.M

The sad part is for how well it transfers speed, I started breaking bad because I was hitting it too fast. But it was because of the intial 5 breaks that I decided it could be broken. So rather than trying to learn to break with it, I decided to attempt to see how hard I could hit with control. Pretty amazed at what I did a couple times. And it's probably because of how hard I hit it a couple days prior that it broke. I break around 22-23mph normally. The fastest breaks I've recorded while controlling the cue ball was near 27mph. The break I believe initiated the failure had to have been at least 30mph. I've hit a Samara tip on the same cue in that same ballpark speed before, and I can say the SPC did it much more easily. It honestly felt like I got a super pure hit.

The reason why my review feels so negative is because of how they insinuated my install was a problem. Twice they have referred to the install as a possible problem. I'll reiterate that I took extra time on the first install to make sure it was good. And it was for two months. It's because I honestly feel that the way the tip constructed is why it failed in the first place. it's also why I have a SPC tip on my jump cue at the moment. I don't plan on taking it off either. I said it before, I'll say it again. The tip in my opinion, which is this review, is too hard for breaking for the material that it is. It's perfect for jumping. As for my price assumption. If you have a perfectly good tip on your break cue, I wouldn't go out of your way to replace it. I had worn down my Samsara tip after nearly 4 1/2 years of use to a point of uncertainty. It was damn thin and needed replacing. I have a Samsara on there again and that's what's going to stay on there.
 

SQB

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
With these tips we are still at the beginning. Also we varied the high of the tips due to customer feedback in first stage.

Donetlitethat gave a good assumption. a capped ferrule is the best choice for our and any break tips.
 

poolguy4u

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
:thumbup:



Great news!

Now available on Ebay with a free piece of chalk.

No, I am not the seller....


:duck:



.
 
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