Production Cues vs. custom

ddg45

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Original poster did not give any valid points just their own opinion
What do you consider a valid point? What can anyone say here about the quality of any cue that isn't opinion? I mentioned several facts about Pechauer's production process. Perhaps you could read the entire thread before saying something that makes you sound foolish.
 
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FunChamp

Well-known member
I bought a Pechauer jp. The construction, balance, finish, shaft wood, it was all top notch. Very beautiful cue. However, it was the worst feeling/hitting cue I've ever shot with. Tried a different tip to see if it made a difference. Nope. Just felt awful when I hit the ball. I really wanted to like it but couldn't. Maybe I just got a bad one
 

mrpiper

Registered
I own 2 players. A Viking F 50 and a J.Flowers 20 21. I bought the Flowers for a smaller 12mm tip and to try CF. I really enjoy playing with both. I doubt I will EVER be a player who could benefit from a "better" cue than these. If you find a cue and tip you like from a few hundred to just below 1k dollars, I doubt anything more is other than hype or art. Just my opinion after 35 years playing.
 

ddg45

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I bought a Pechauer jp. The construction, balance, finish, shaft wood, it was all top notch. Very beautiful cue. However, it was the worst feeling/hitting cue I've ever shot with. Tried a different tip to see if it made a difference. Nope. Just felt awful when I hit the ball. I really wanted to like it but couldn't. Maybe I just got a bad one
That's OK. Guys love their Meucci's and Joss's and I tried both and didn't like either at all. I'm a Pechauer guy but whatever anyone likes or dislikes is fine with me.
 

Bavafongoul

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Perfect is accepting what you locate cannot be improved upon. That can never be done with any cue.
Why? Because perfect means it can’t be improved & yet, for another pool player, it might not be the case.

So the task is knowing what you like and understanding why you like it otherwise it will always be trial and
error. And with custom cues, you could go broke…..I know and thank goodness there was an ivory ban or
I’d still be ordering custom cues. Once you find a cue you like, if you understand pool cue anatomy, then
figure out how the cue you like was built. Learn the specs and only then, are you ready to invest the dollars
to have a custom cue built. Otherwise you are just asking the cue maker to build you a cue and he makes all
the decisions. Sure, it’s still a cue from cue maker X but there’s nothing custom about it other than the price
you paid. Understanding your equipment and what you like, or prefer, is prerequisite to ordering a custom cue.

You don’t have to tell the cue maker the exact design but he needs to know what you like, prefer and are open to
considering before he starts your build, or at least early on. He wants you to be thrilled and just needs insight as
to what you expect. For some people, all they might have in mind is a 19 oz. cue but the cue maker will ask you
questions to figure out what is most likely to make you happy. Make his job easier and figure it out ahead of time.
 

7stud

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
And with custom cues, you could go broke…..I know and thank goodness there was an ivory ban or
I’d still be ordering custom cues.
:LOL: By the way, to mark the 50th anniversary of CITES, today NPR broadcast a story on CITES.
Has been said they have the best finish in the business. Will post mine when I get a chance. Of the 2 I have one is a Remember Then edition I do not use. It's a gorgeous closet queen. The other is a beautiful great player.
I have the DEC1 with a leather wrap.
The DEC1 looks like a beautiful cue. I've never seen a Pechauer with sharp points before. How even are the ends of the points? Personally, I don't like any of the other Pechauer designs, and among their current designs I think their best looking cue is their cheapest merry widow cue.

At some point, I decided I liked fatter butts, and no production cues have fat butts, so I bought some customs. Then one day, someone on here mentioned that standard Viking butts are 1.295". What??! Now, I'm thinking about purchasing a Viking cue with a 6" mid cue extension to see how it compares to my custom cues. Speaking of not liking cue designs, Viking cues are the worst I've seen. Once again, I think their most tolerable design is their cheapest cue: a plain, unstained merry widow with a linen wrap.

I think the main reasons to go custom are:

1. Getting a spec you can't find in the production market, which might include:
........a. butt size
........b. length: longer than standard
........c. balance point: more forward than production cues. Production cues all seem to weigh 18oz, then you add weight bolts to get the weight ....................................you want, which means the cue gets more and more butt heavy.

2. Artistic beauty, e.g.:
......a. nicer woods
......b. sharp points and veneers with your choice of colors
......c. traditional diamond, propeller, barbell, clover, and other inlays made from white elforyn, mother of pearl (abalone), silver,
..........holly (ivory substitute), etc.
......d. a wide variety of custom ring work at the joint, butt cap, top of wrap, etc.

You may see things you like in one cue and other things you like in another cue, and with a custom cue you can combine your favorite things into one cue, or you can present the cue maker with a budget and let the cue maker go wild. As Bavafongoul wrote, customs can get addicting. He has some really nice cues!
 
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Bavafongoul

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Someone asked me at the pool hall yesterday how do I pick a cue to play with. After all, there’s six in my case.
I replied every time I open my case I really don’t know which side I’ll pick a cue from….left or right….there’s 3 & 3.

And so the next time I play, I’ll open my case and choose a cue from the other side of my case. For playability, I do
not have a favorite cue since the cues are closely matched in specs and features. However, when it comes to say….
sentimentality, that’s a different outcome. Probably my favorite cue is my ‘85 Schon Bob Runde and I collaborated
on. Schon was still a maverick company when I ordered my cue in 1984 and I disrespected his craftsmanship when
I rejected the first cue he made. It wasn’t what I wanted, or let’s say expected. Bob made a 2nd cue that was perfect.

He swore afterward he wouldn’t make customer designs again since I really undeservedly criticized the 1st cue. We
ultimately became pals over time but my ‘85 Schon cue has a provenance uniquely distinguishing it from my others.
 

Floydian214

New member
I bought a Pechauer jp. The construction, balance, finish, shaft wood, it was all top notch. Very beautiful cue. However, it was the worst feeling/hitting cue I've ever shot with. Tried a different tip to see if it made a difference. Nope. Just felt awful when I hit the ball. I really wanted to like it but couldn't. Maybe I just got a bad one
My sister said the exact same thing about her friends JP. I use a Pechauer pro series, with the piloted joint, and she liked that one substantially more, and even bought a pro series at the Expo this past year from their booth.
That said, I feel like with certain joints, especially the quicker release models with less thread, the piloting makes a huge difference in getting a solid feel. If you have the opportunity, it may be worth trying one out and seeing if that fixes your issue with the hit.
 

RickLafayette

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
With modern technology, modern production cues like Predator and Cuetec, play as well as any other well made cues, production or custom. The term custom cues also has to be defined, as a custom cue can be made by one individual, say like a Bob Owen, or by several makers, like a Schon. A custom cue can also be a simple widow style with only two different woods composing the butt, or a full splice with several veneers and inlays, etc. Custom cue making can also extend to the maker's shaft. There's not much playing difference between a well-designed Predator and, say a nice old school Tim Scruggs, but the amount of individual hands-on construction, individuality and price will bring more satisfaction to one who is willing to pay the price.
I believe every custom cue is worth the price the maker charges because you pay not just for the finished product, but for the time it took to make the cue and the time it took for the maker to develop his expertise and the cumulation of all his past cues to justify his level of popularity which may up the premium of his cues.
 

Floydian214

New member
custom cues are over priced and over hyped .... i can play just as well with a predator as i can with a 3k+ cue
A 3k custom won't play 3x as good as a 1k predator, in fact it may not play any better at all. A cues play is dictated by the person playing with it. Also, sometimes just holding a certain cue can give you a subjective bias and make you play better, just because it appeals to your tastes more. In those cases maybe that extra money is the difference between a big tournament win or a choking moment. One of the questions we never know the answer to.
I digress, though. The price difference is the amount of hours, time, and premium material used in the build. You can argue some cues aren't worth their premium, but that's within the eyes of the beholder. The cue maker is doing each one one at a time special for you, and while there may not be an increase in performance, their time is often well worth that.
You may actually be able to argue a predator has more technology in it than any South West for example, But predator is pumping thousands of them out on a machine designed to make that one piece, whereas Laurie Franklin is spending time readjusting the machine for each piece one at a time, measuring, weighing and inspecting everything countless times through the process, taking extra care and that takes time which has a cost. I know some people don't think South West is worth it, so feel free to add any maker in there you'd like.
TLDR: you're paying for much more than factory performance with a custom cue, specifically you're paying for the maker and their individual skills.
 

j2pac

Marital Slow Learner.
Staff member
Moderator
Gold Member
Silver Member
Not a very helpful reply. The forum is for giving and finding information. At least a little clarification instead of a snide comment is more appropriate.

I’d love to know why I’m playing with a piece of trash and what I’m missing out on.
I've used Pechauer before. They seemed pretty solid to me. I also had a Mezz "Sneaky" that I would have put up against any cue I have ever owned in terms of quality, and playability...
😎
 

lord_shar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I previously played with a 1980's Meucci Original, then a Schon CX-61, and finally my current custom Andy Gilbert. The Meucci is the softest hitting of the bunch, while the Schon and Gilbert both have stiff yet slightly different hits. I love using all of them, but the Gilbert is definitely my favorite because of its looks and feel.

The Meucci's finish has yellowed a lot over the years and can probably use a re-finish. The Schon's shaft finish has yellowed a little since 2004, but the CX-61's butt has remained largely the same. The Gilbert has not yellowed at all since 2005.

I know that the Meucci is a production cue, while the Gilbert is a one-of-a-kind custom. Are Schon's considered production or custom?
 

bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I previously played with a 1980's Meucci Original, then a Schon CX-61, and finally my current custom Andy Gilbert. The Meucci is the softest hitting of the bunch, while the Schon and Gilbert both have stiff yet slightly different hits. I love using all of them, but the Gilbert is definitely my favorite because of its looks and feel.

The Meucci's finish has yellowed a lot over the years and can probably use a re-finish. The Schon's shaft finish has yellowed a little since 2004, but the CX-61's butt has remained largely the same. The Gilbert has not yellowed at all since 2005.

I know that the Meucci is a production cue, while the Gilbert is a one-of-a-kind custom. Are Schon's considered production or custom?
is the gilbert your avatar?
 

bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Yes it is... for a while I was using a MTG card image, but changed it to my Gilbert to make it more relevant to these forums.
nice Q
i liked the gilbert i had made...looked and played great
its interesting how he has a "half joint" ivory joint
sorry to sidetrack the thread
i apologize to you john oleson
to answer your original question
the "perfect" stick you seek can only be found by you
 

TheBasics

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Howdy All;

In my Signature you can see everything I have. Mostly I have what I consider are
the Production end cues from a few well liked Cue makers, The Meucci MO-03 that
I bought in early '79, McDermott C-series from 80-84. The Bludworth that he told
me he'd made in the mid '90s and the JossWest which he told me he'd made in the
early part of the '70s. The last 2 were their version of Production cues as they could
get a bunch of them out the door to keep said door open. The ones that show up
in their broachers. The Hunter is a custom as Wes guarantees no 2 are alike. I chose
the woods and fittings, he took that and worked his magic.

I'm sure that Joss (Md.), can build you a complete custom as could Meucci or any of
the rest our there. Check their web sites. All one needs do is ASK.

hank
 
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LHP5

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've shot and owned Joss, Lambros, Predators, Black Boar, Pechauer, Diveney, McDermott, Viking, Meucci, Frey, Lucasi, Mezz, carbon fiber shafts, skinny shafts, large shafts, etc. Short stop level players have let me shoot with their cues too....Honestly, it doesnt matter. Top players shoot with something that either feels great to you or feels completely awkward to you. It's all preference and does not matter.
 
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