Pros today vs the pros yesterday

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skogstokig

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Island Drive said:
Here's an example, Marc the snooker player in the Spanish Final.
Made a GREAT shot on the purple ball to get out in the 1st game.
He broke the second rack, and was puttin' the rack together, he got a Little long on the 4 ball, being a Snooker player, hey these pockets are Buckets.
He's almost straight in on the 4 ball, around 3.18 minutes into the finals, alls needed, pull it over a ways to his left.
He got sloppy, he should of gotten Much closer to the 4 but it's ''still'' ;) a cinch shot ;), he let up a 'little'/ over spincutted it.... it hung in the jaws. The table was there.
He should of been up 2-0 and breaking.

This second game error, cost him the match.
bm
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marc bijsterbosch is a pool player. mark wilson is the snooker player, he finished L64 where he lost to mario he.
 
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slugrack

New member
skogstokig said:
marc bijsterbosch is a pool player. mark wilson is the snooker player, he finished L64 where he lost to mario he.
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I also don't think you can point to any single error that cost Marc the match. His play was a bit sloppy throughout, and sometimes it benefitted him -- like slopping in the 9.
 
F

FunChamp

Well-known member
JoeyInCali said:
Caras and Mosconi?
Doubt it. They had flawed mechanics.
Sigel's fidgety style wouldn't work with the shot clock.
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Yeah, Mosconis flawed mechanics were such a hindrance that doing exhibitions in retirement he guaranteed to run 100 balls. People today get so over obsessed with looking like the robots that they don't realize the only thing that matters is if what you are doing is repeatable.
 
JoeyInCali

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
FunChamp said:
Yeah, Mosconis flawed mechanics were such a hindrance that doing exhibitions in retirement he guaranteed to run 100 balls. People today get so over obsessed with looking like the robots that they don't realize the only thing that matters is if what you are doing is repeatable.
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100 balls on 5" pockets playing half table game.
They run 400's easily now
 
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FunChamp

Well-known member
I was watching FSR the other day and caught myself realizing that his position play actually sucked. Wrong side of the ball all the time, piss poor speed control, way to far away from the OB. Their shot making is so good they overcome a lot of other deficiencies. The game to me is a lot easier today because of faster, better equipment. I played at a pro level (lower tier) in the late 90's. I've I could dedicate that time again I, comparably, would be even better because of equipment. It's easier to move the rock and break out balls. Conversely if you took today's players and deposited them in the 70's-90's they would play good but struggle and not be as good as they are today. If you took Hall, Miz, Varner and they played today they would still be killers. Big part of that is they have the needed mental makeup.
 
hang-the-9

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
FunChamp said:
Yeah, Mosconis flawed mechanics were such a hindrance that doing exhibitions in retirement he guaranteed to run 100 balls. People today get so over obsessed with looking like the robots that they don't realize the only thing that matters is if what you are doing is repeatable.
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Sure, you can learn to play well in any sport with bad mechanics, but it's much more likely that you won't. Exceptions like Mosconi, McCready, Bustamante, a few others, are just that, very rare exceptions that any person starting to play should not try to copy if they want to get an accurate hit. A more accurate view is to see the modern players that never played straight pool but have good mechanics run 100s in their first few days of playing that game.

Something I tell people that I teach when I talk to them about their mechanics and cue delivery: "you want to play well BECAUSE of your mechanics, not INSPITE of them". Almost every single player I see that gets stuck at a D or C level despite playing for years is there because they don't have a good level even accurate stroke and their tip contact is often in random places.
 
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JoeyInCali

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
FunChamp said:
I was watching FSR the other day and caught myself realizing that his position play actually sucked. Wrong side of the ball all the time, piss poor speed control, way to far away from the OB. Their shot making is so good they overcome a lot of other deficiencies. The game to me is a lot easier today because of faster, better equipment. I played at a pro level (lower tier) in the late 90's. I've I could dedicate that time again I, comparably, would be even better because of equipment. It's easier to move the rock and break out balls. Conversely if you took today's players and deposited them in the 70's-90's they would play good but struggle and not be as good as they are today. If you took Hall, Miz, Varner and they played today they would still be killers. Big part of that is they have the needed mental makeup.
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Easier? Maybe. But,.the talent pool is Very deep.
Winning one US Open today tops all of Sigel's US Open titles , combined. When Shane won his last one, he had to beat several WORLD CHAMPIONS in the final two days.
Sigel beat a field of 64 or less.
Shane has one world 9 title because of the talent pool is ridiculous now.
 
mikemosconi

mikemosconi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
My thoughts are that there certainly are many more "top" players today than prior years. Some of the reasons for this are obvious- the training that occurs from an early age to insure stroke delivery mechanics that, when they become almost 100% repeatable, result in much more consistent high level play on even very demanding equipment. The availability of proper pool training , the internet, the use of the video, all have resulted in many more players that do things "right" on the pool table very consistently - much more so than years ago.

How many of us older guys here WISH that, with our love of the game, we had the same available pool instruction back in the 60s and 70s - I have spent the last two years, finally having the time in retirement, completely breaking my game down and rebuilding it according to "modern" pool teaching techniques- even at my advanced age I have improved at least 30% from a low B to a mid A- the internet and the video replay have been great saviors!

Mosconi had great natural talent - a stroke that moved the cue ball where he wanted it, tremendous final focus ability, and a mind that put winning ( executing under pressure) above all else in life. His dedication to the game allowed him to perform at the highest levels in each of these categories EVERY TIME HE PLAYED.

It takes a lot more than great mechanics to be a great player and a champion in any sport or game. However, more of today's pool pros do certainly exhibit the highest level of repeatable consistency in their game BECAUSE of their adherence to proper pool mechanics- that is the difference in my opinion.
 
Maniac

Maniac

2manyQ's
Silver Member
SEB said:
Jesus…you guys are both wrong.

Marc isn’t a snooker player and it’s “Gary” Wilson that’s the snooker player.
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Yeah, Mark Wilson is the commentator who feels it necessary to use all the fancy words when he talks.
 
A

axejunkie

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm in general agreement with SJM on the pattern play argument. Have seen some of the 800+ rated players whose patterns seem lazy or lacking in knowledge, yet they shoot so straight they still get out about the same percentage.
 
Ken_4fun

Ken_4fun

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Point #1
Well nobody mentioned the difference in equipment. I played on pre Simonis cloth and you had to power the ball. Today, the balls are nearly perfect. Outstanding cues and tips. My point if you look at drag racing in the 60's verses now is it because you have better drivers? Not the equipment?

Point #2
Maybe someone mentioned but I didnt see it. I can tell an old school player verses a new player. The old time players handled the cueball better. Buddy Hall IMO is the greatest on cueball control. Watching him play and practicing can be boring to those who do not understand what he is doing. Buddy cueball control and moving it the minimal amount is not done today from anyone I have seen.

Point #3
Going back to basketball as an example, Bird and Magic both wanted to win, whatever it took. The competition made them both better. Today there are so many great players in many countries, it is making the players better.

Ken
 
joelpope

joelpope

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
JoeyInCali said:
From watching videos for decades now ( and tournaments) , it is undeniable the pros today are just insanely straight shooters.
The pockets in the Spanish Open were tiny and I saw these monsters shoot long shots like nothing.
The pros today shoot straighter than their former peers as a group.
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the level of the game has risen with better tables, cloth, cues, tips, etc... same discussion in golf but the fact is that the dedication to the game, eye hand coordination, competitive spirit and pure guts that made champions 100 years ago would make them champions today

the biggest difference, using golf as an example, is that today the pros are athletes, buffed out, hard working and in top physical and mental condition as opposed to fat Jack Nicholas and smoking, drinking Arny Palmer

while pool players aren't quite there they are definitely not the chemistry labs of the past
 
sjm

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
joelpope said:
the level of the game has risen with better tables, cloth, cues, tips, etc... same discussion in golf but the fact is that the dedication to the game, eye hand coordination, competitive spirit and pure guts that made champions 100 years ago would make them champions today

the biggest difference, using golf as an example, is that today the pros are athletes, buffed out, hard working and in top physical and mental condition as opposed to fat Jack Nicholas and smoking, drinking Arny Palmer

while pool players aren't quite there they are definitely not the chemistry labs of the past
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Another factor is that most of the pros of fifty years ago had day jobs. Even Mizerak taught English in Perth Amboy, NJ, and Irving Crane sold Cadillacs in Rochester, NY. I remember many pros who were bartenders. Pool didn't have enough tournaments to pay the bills for all but a few.
 
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