henho said:
Doesn't feeling your opponent cause friction?
pj
chgo
Question for "feel" aimers, which comes first?
- Thread starter CueAndMe
- Start date
Doesn't feeling your opponent cause friction?
pj
chgo
JimS,
It takes time for this to happen lots of repetition you will get it I?m sure. My play is evolving everyday too and one day I will get it as well. Aiming systems are too mechanical, I think most players use elements from different systems to create a visual. Most don?t know they are using a system, it just makes sense to them to aim in a certain way. Approach is huge part of my setup. My shooting hand has to endup in the exact spot and my body wraps around that ?rock? being the grip hand.
It takes time for this to happen lots of repetition you will get it I?m sure. My play is evolving everyday too and one day I will get it as well. Aiming systems are too mechanical, I think most players use elements from different systems to create a visual. Most don?t know they are using a system, it just makes sense to them to aim in a certain way. Approach is huge part of my setup. My shooting hand has to endup in the exact spot and my body wraps around that ?rock? being the grip hand.
There's two ways to play this game. One way is to play and have fun and the other way is to play and enjoy it.
If you want to play and have fun then play with feel and instinct like many describe here. When you play this way you let your subconscious take over and basically free wheel. Playing this way there is very little effort put out thus you wind up having fun. The pitfall with this type of game is everything has to be going your way. As soon as things get sticky and pressure from your opponent is applied and you start to feel the duress, the first thing out the window is your instinct and feel. Then what do you have to fall back on? Nothing. IMO, when you play with instinct and feel, the only people that you will beat are the ones that you will beat anyway.
The other way to play and enjoy is to concentrate on all the shots, weather they are simple shots or difficult ones. When you practice you must do so correctly, meaning that you must take your time and understand all that you are doing. Condition your minds eye to find the pocket, visualize the spin and speed required, try to pin point your desired cue ball location for position.
Playing this way your are not relaying on your instincts, If pressure is applied you will be able to withstand the coming storm and you will be able settle down. Playing this way only you will know when you are under pressure and no one else will because you are doing everything with complete understanding of the shots. When you play this way there is much enjoyment derived because there is not much guess work in what you are doing.
If you want to play and have fun then play with your friends, have a few beers, and just let it fly.
If you want to play and win, then you have to hard nose every shot.
If you want to play and have fun then play with feel and instinct like many describe here. When you play this way you let your subconscious take over and basically free wheel. Playing this way there is very little effort put out thus you wind up having fun. The pitfall with this type of game is everything has to be going your way. As soon as things get sticky and pressure from your opponent is applied and you start to feel the duress, the first thing out the window is your instinct and feel. Then what do you have to fall back on? Nothing. IMO, when you play with instinct and feel, the only people that you will beat are the ones that you will beat anyway.
The other way to play and enjoy is to concentrate on all the shots, weather they are simple shots or difficult ones. When you practice you must do so correctly, meaning that you must take your time and understand all that you are doing. Condition your minds eye to find the pocket, visualize the spin and speed required, try to pin point your desired cue ball location for position.
Playing this way your are not relaying on your instincts, If pressure is applied you will be able to withstand the coming storm and you will be able settle down. Playing this way only you will know when you are under pressure and no one else will because you are doing everything with complete understanding of the shots. When you play this way there is much enjoyment derived because there is not much guess work in what you are doing.
If you want to play and have fun then play with your friends, have a few beers, and just let it fly.
If you want to play and win, then you have to hard nose every shot.
Playing by feel is does not mean the same as not carrying about what you doing. Feel and instinct do not come from thin air but are result of countless ours of practice. Training requires acute awareness of tendencies and actions. In addition you must evaluate and conclude. This way you can learn what works and what does not.
A child learns the alphabet and spells c---a----t, an adult will write cat and he/she will not think about the letters.
Competition requires ability to execute under pressure conditions.
It is easy to fall apart unless of course you have done something a 1000 times – THE SAME WAY. Your game goes on automatic – dead stroke.
A child learns the alphabet and spells c---a----t, an adult will write cat and he/she will not think about the letters.
Competition requires ability to execute under pressure conditions.
It is easy to fall apart unless of course you have done something a 1000 times – THE SAME WAY. Your game goes on automatic – dead stroke.
Wolven said:
It's coming. Used to be I didn't feel or just "know" any shot now I"m sometimes on automatic. Last night I was practicing table length corner to corner shots from all angles and it seemed like I couldn't miss. The auto pilot was just "on". Everything I looked at went in without having to use two or three different systems to check out whether I was aiming correctly. I just looked at the shot while standing and when I got down on the shot I was lined up.... every time. It felt like I had a piece of Rodney Morris's brain in my head
My daily practice is "enabling" this to happen more often. I can't count on it and don't intend to be able to count on it. I still will be taking my time and checking out my aim with 2 or 3 instant checks from different aiming systems but it sure does provide some confidence and also some positive reinforcement to keep on keeping-on with the sometimes boring and sometimes seemingly pointless daily practice.
dabarbr said:
NO NON-CHALANTIN!!
Thanks dabarbr. I appreciate your insights and couldn't agree more that full attention must be paid and full effort be given.
As my friends/teachers Sailor and Mark Wilson say ... NO NONCHALATIN!!! and from Mark Wilson..... "Complete every stroke of the cue to perfection, regardless of how simple or difficult the shot may be. Make no distinction between the difficult or less difficult shots but apply yourself completely to each opportunity to strike a pool ball."
(Sailor... I can hear you now.:thumbup: )
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The Dazzler
New member
Jeff, players like myself (Daryl Peach), Tony Drago, Rodney Morris, etc etc who are "feel" players would play a shot in this order:
1. Identify the shot that needs to be played.
2. Get down on the shot from behind the CB.
3. I know the shot i am wanting to play, now that i am down on the shot i "feel" aiming point on the object ball, the power of the shot, and also the correct place to strike the CB.
I dont have a clear explanation of why i aim where i do to pocket balls etc, i guess its just through hours and hours of practice that i know.
I certainly feel that if i miss a shot its not because i aimed wrong, its more likely to be because i moved as i was striking the CB, or didnt follow through with the cue in a straight line.
One thing i will say is, you should NEVER change your mind once your are down on the shot.
Make your shot decision, and view your striking point before you get down on the shot, never "adjust" your aim once you are down on the shot...get back up if you feel that something is wrong!
I hope this helps you mate.
D4RYL.
1. Identify the shot that needs to be played.
2. Get down on the shot from behind the CB.
3. I know the shot i am wanting to play, now that i am down on the shot i "feel" aiming point on the object ball, the power of the shot, and also the correct place to strike the CB.
I dont have a clear explanation of why i aim where i do to pocket balls etc, i guess its just through hours and hours of practice that i know.
I certainly feel that if i miss a shot its not because i aimed wrong, its more likely to be because i moved as i was striking the CB, or didnt follow through with the cue in a straight line.
One thing i will say is, you should NEVER change your mind once your are down on the shot.
Make your shot decision, and view your striking point before you get down on the shot, never "adjust" your aim once you are down on the shot...get back up if you feel that something is wrong!
I hope this helps you mate.
D4RYL.
The Dazzler
New member
Wolven said:
I think everyone is different, if they werent it would be a boring world right?
What you say above makes a lot of sense to me personally......this is the sort of logic and methods that have got me to where i am at the moment.
I will add that 1 hour of super solid practice is far better than 10 hours of slack practice!
In fact, i break my practice up into hourly sessions because its natural that a humans concentration span deteriates drastically after an hour.....once again though, i guess were not all the same.
D4RYL.
The Dazzler said:
Thank you Daryl. It's rather brave of you to step out from the pack and identify youself. I appreciate your willingness to explain what happens when you aim.
Have you always aimed like this or has it come about with years of practice?
A lot of very interesting discussion, great points and great suggestions being made. Thanks.
Another thing that I sense when I shoot by feel is a certain heaviness of hit for thicker shots. I know that seems pretty obvious. But it's more than just thickness; it's almost like feeling a resistance that the object ball is going to give the cue ball. The thicker the aim, the more chunky the object ball feels.
Another thing that I sense when I shoot by feel is a certain heaviness of hit for thicker shots. I know that seems pretty obvious. But it's more than just thickness; it's almost like feeling a resistance that the object ball is going to give the cue ball. The thicker the aim, the more chunky the object ball feels.
The Dazzler
New member
JimS said:
Yeah, ever since i can remember i have aimed like this....i defo didnt have any systems....i just used guess work in the begining until i sarted to recognize exactly where i need to hit.
D4RYL.
bluepepper, you answered your own question. Real feel players just eyeball the table, get down, then shoot. But, even us feel players come across shots that require special attention. In fact, I think everyone has some level of 'feel' in them.
Some people here claim that you're a hopeless player if you don't use a proper concious aiming system. Can't understand why.
Daryl himself stepped in and explained how he does it. To me, that method seems far more natural than complicated aiming systems. That's how I do it also, but obviously not quite that well...yet...
Btw Daryl, congratulations once again on your big title and a big thanks for the posts here. They really are an eye opener.
The bottom line is that we should stop searching for magic tricks to radically improve our game. There aren't any. Only thousands of hours of concentrated and structured practice time will do it. And even then, 99.999999% percent of us will never get a shot at winning a pro event.
Daryl himself stepped in and explained how he does it. To me, that method seems far more natural than complicated aiming systems. That's how I do it also, but obviously not quite that well...yet...
Btw Daryl, congratulations once again on your big title and a big thanks for the posts here. They really are an eye opener.
The bottom line is that we should stop searching for magic tricks to radically improve our game. There aren't any. Only thousands of hours of concentrated and structured practice time will do it. And even then, 99.999999% percent of us will never get a shot at winning a pro event.
I don't see why having backup aiming techniques is a bad thing, but I do think you're right about feel being primary. I just came up with another angle recognition technique yesterday that I'll share soon. It seems to help with deciphering a certain range of shots. It may not be as practical for another range of shots, but it seems to have value.
Anyway, after using it over and over again, the method is becoming a quicker process. Eventually, these angles may be recognized without any conscious use of the system, though the system was what organized those shots in my inventory.
Anyway, after using it over and over again, the method is becoming a quicker process. Eventually, these angles may be recognized without any conscious use of the system, though the system was what organized those shots in my inventory.
Thanks for the input Daryl. It is nice to see a great player join in the discussion, there is a lot we can all learn from you. I have watched the games from your march to the title many times. I told some of my friends that a world champion made a comment on my post they all thought it was pretty cool. I believe now more than ever that I’m on the right track.
Just as a sideline.
The logical approach to pool I have adopted from my training and teaching of chess.
There was a study by de Groot where chess positions were shown to amateurs and professionals alike. It was discovered that amateur players saw individual pieces while masters saw chunks. So, a common grouping of pieces was a single ‘unit’ to a master.
Kind of like angles and relationships between balls, packets and rails.
In cases for instance of simple and common forced 4 move checkmate amateur player would have to calculate the moves one by one, while for experienced player the idea comes in a flush it takes about a second the see the whole forced sequence it is like a flood, it is automatic.
Just as a sideline.
The logical approach to pool I have adopted from my training and teaching of chess.
There was a study by de Groot where chess positions were shown to amateurs and professionals alike. It was discovered that amateur players saw individual pieces while masters saw chunks. So, a common grouping of pieces was a single ‘unit’ to a master.
Kind of like angles and relationships between balls, packets and rails.
In cases for instance of simple and common forced 4 move checkmate amateur player would have to calculate the moves one by one, while for experienced player the idea comes in a flush it takes about a second the see the whole forced sequence it is like a flood, it is automatic.