# Question for the fractional-ball aiming fans

#### billyjack

##### Registered Loser
Silver Member
Based on many of the comments in the various recent aiming threads, I've decided to give the fractional ball aiming a try. I still don't understand why, but it definitely improved my pocketing. I find it easy and accurate when you're aiming your tip through the CB to a point on the OB, but what about edge-to-edge, 1/8 ball etc. when your tip is aimed beside the OB?
How do you shift your aim from CB center to CB edge accurately? Do you move your head slightly to the side? When you are sighting directly down the shaft, it seems lining up the CB edge, which is 1 1/8 inches to the side introduces some inaccuracy. Any thoughts from those who use this aiming method? Thanks in advance for the input. I think there's definitely something to be gained with this type of aiming.
Bill

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Silver Member

#### scottycoyote

##### AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
i imagine a line going thru the center of the cueball and i aint that line on the point on the object ball i would normally aim at if i wasnt using english. I then either hit to the left or right of center and allow a little for deflection, or use backhand english.

#### RiverCity

##### AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I made some pictures a while back that might help with the visualization of it. Aim with the edge of the ball, not the cue stick through the center.

For a straight on shot, the edges cover each other like this....

For a 15 degree cut, aim the edge of the cue ball for a 3/4 full hit....

On a 30 degree cut, you are looking at a 1/2 ball hit. In other words the edge of the cue ball is lined up with the center of the object ball.....

If you have a 45 degree cut, the edge of the cue ball only covers 1/4 of the object ball, like this...

A thin cut, approaching 90 degrees is an 1/8th of a ball hit....

There are other angles, throws, skids etc that you have to accommodate for, but this is the gist of most of the fractional aiming systems.
Chuck

#### BigCat

##### The Panda Diaries
Gold Member
Silver Member
RiverCity said:
I made some pictures a while back that might help with the visualization of it. Aim with the edge of the ball, not the cue stick through the center.

For a straight on shot, the edges cover each other like this....

For a 15 degree cut, aim the edge of the cue ball for a 3/4 full hit....

On a 30 degree cut, you are looking at a 1/2 ball hit. In other words the edge of the cue ball is lined up with the center of the object ball.....

If you have a 45 degree cut, the edge of the cue ball only covers 1/4 of the object ball, like this...

A thin cut, approaching 90 degrees is an 1/8th of a ball hit....

There are other angles, throws, skids etc that you have to accommodate for, but this is the gist of most of the fractional aiming systems.
Chuck

Nice illustrations of the fractional aiming system. This is exactly how I aim also, and it's nice to see it shown visually like this. Good job.

Ray

#### billyjack

##### Registered Loser
Silver Member
RiverCity said:
I made some pictures a while back that might help with the visualization of it. Aim with the edge of the ball, not the cue stick through the center.

Thanks for the pics Chuck. Since I'm now playing in an 8-ball league, those are the images i need to burn in my brain for the "money ball" shot.
My problem with aiming this way has more to do with sighting. All along, I've been taught to position my head and eyes so I'm directly in line with the cue, sighting down the shaft like a shotgun barrel, with both eyes open. Now I'm trying to aim with the edge of the CB, which is 1 1/8" off to the side (with a center ball hit). How do you move your sighting from center of CB to edge of CB and still stay accurate? Your sighting line would need to be exactly parallel to the shaft, but half a ball to the side. Maybe I'm making too much of this, but if your sight line is not exactly half a ball to the side of the stick and exactly parallel, your error would multiply as distance between CB and OB gets greater.
Damn, this is tough to explain. Maybe I'll try and post a diagram when I have more time. Thanks to all for any input.
Bill

Silver Member
.............

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#### Patrick Johnson

##### Fish of the Day
Silver Member
KNOWING an easy and sure way to aim it takes all the 'jitters' out of the shot, and thereby increases the pocketing percentages.

I think this must be the main attraction of fractional aiming.

I have a question for fractional aimers, but I think I'll post it as a poll.

pj
chgo

#### RonV

##### AIMING,BANKING,D.SYSTEMS
Silver Member
billyjack said:
Based on many of the comments in the various recent aiming threads, I've decided to give the fractional ball aiming a try. I still don't understand why, but it definitely improved my pocketing. I find it easy and accurate when you're aiming your tip through the CB to a point on the OB, but what about edge-to-edge, 1/8 ball etc. when your tip is aimed beside the OB?
How do you shift your aim from CB center to CB edge accurately? Do you move your head slightly to the side? When you are sighting directly down the shaft, it seems lining up the CB edge, which is 1 1/8 inches to the side introduces some inaccuracy. Any thoughts from those who use this aiming method? Thanks in advance for the input. I think there's definitely something to be gained with this type of aiming.
Bill
Hi, If you wish to know anything about aiming pleases get in touch with me...I have been giving people aiming lessons over the phone and have been very successful at it...They have come for a reaL lessons also from York Pa.Oregon and very happy with there progress...I have heard things like have`nt missed a ball or a bank since the lesson and i played a guy 1 pocket and he gave me 9,8 and by the time we were finished I was giving him 8,7...needless to say i was very pleaded with that...

I have given lesson on the phone to guys in 8 states and am meeting 3 of them in Valley forge for personal coaching...I teach the swivel or the pivot system as some call it for aiming, also diamond and banking systems and have worked with some of the best players in the world...Mika Immonon,thorsten H, Fabio Petrone from Rome,Max Eberle, Karen Corr. Jeanette Lee And Jennifer Barretta. and more..So if you need some help call me (h) 212-737-0077 (cell) 917-656-7189...There is n/c for the phone lesson, i just like to help people who love the game and are in trouble...RonV.

#### BRKNRUN

##### Showin some A\$\$
Silver Member
Neil said:
I know what you are saying. I had the same problem and dismissed this method of aiming because of it. Due to the recent threads on it, I decided to give it another shot. I had the same problem, but came up with a least a partial solution.

Look at the pictures in this thread. Now, look at where the center of the cueball is. That is what I aim at, not the edge of the cueball. It has the same effect. When the cueball center is way off the object ball, I use my old aiming methods.
I must say, I was rather surprised at how well that method works. I have found it most beneficial on those long hard cuts that can really make you think twice. KNOWING an easy and sure way to aim it takes all the 'jitters' out of the shot, and thereby increases the pocketing percentages.

FYI - The 1/4 CB to Edge shot you can still use the center CB... The only difference is when you line up your cue through center CB, you use "just outside" the edge of the shaft to line up with the edge of the OB...(this effectivly puts the 1/4 CB in line with the Edge of the OB)

The Edge to Edge contact can be done by a "reverse pivot" that actually measures out the correct alignment...

You will align your cue through the 1/4 of the CB to the edge of the OB...then "pivot" your cue to center CB...

The math of this that since the pivot (back to center CB) changes your aim by a 1/4 it subtract the 1/4 that you had lined up for...the result is a edge to edge contact......and with a little practice...a razor thin cut...(very effective when you want to play safe and not move the OB)

#### Bob Jewett

##### AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
RiverCity said:
... If you have a 45 degree cut, the edge of the cue ball only covers 1/4 of the object ball, like this ...
A nit: I think it doesn't make any practical difference, but the cut angle for a 1/4-ball hit is not 45 degrees. If you really, really get a 1/4-ball hit, and don't have throw, the cut angle is 48.5903779 degrees. That's enough different from 45 degrees that you would miss most shots if you needed one and got the other.

I said that there is no practical difference because as you use any system you will learn to subconsciously adjust for its flaws. For fractional ball, I think you will learn that something that looks like 1/4-ball to you will get a certain cut angle that you will recognize. It doesn't make much difference whether the real cut angle is 45 or 48 or 42 as long as you can match the two up consistently.

#### Patrick Johnson

##### Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Bob Jewett said:
...For fractional ball, I think you will learn that something that looks like 1/4-ball to you will get a certain cut angle that you will recognize. It doesn't make much difference whether the real cut angle is 45 or 48 or 42 as long as you can match the two up consistently.

Right, and I think this is basically how all aiming is done, with or without a system - we learn that "this alignment = this cut angle" and repeat as necessary. Systems like fractional aiming are just a way of identifying some alignments that can be easily repeated (for instance, by lining up certain visible parts of the balls) so that they can be used as reliable "reference angles".

pj
chgo

#### Patrick Johnson

##### Fish of the Day
Silver Member
BRKNRUN said:
FYI - The 1/4 CB to Edge shot you can still use the center CB... The only difference is when you line up your cue through center CB, you use "just outside" the edge of the shaft to line up with the edge of the OB...(this effectivly puts the 1/4 CB in line with the Edge of the OB)

Of course, "just outside the edge of the shaft" means something slightly different for different tip widths. The difference between half of a 14mm shaft and half of an 11mm shaft is only about 1/16", but that makes a difference on thin cuts with small margins of error. You'll get used to the amount of adjustment that applies to your tip width.

The Edge to Edge contact can be done by a "reverse pivot" that actually measures out the correct alignment...

You will align your cue through the 1/4 of the CB to the edge of the OB...then "pivot" your cue to center CB...

The math of this that since the pivot (back to center CB) changes your aim by a 1/4 it subtract the 1/4 that you had lined up for...the result is a edge to edge contact......and with a little practice...a razor thin cut...(very effective when you want to play safe and not move the OB)

What exactly do you mean by "pivot"? Pivot the tip by moving your back hand (like with BHE)? Move the whole shaft sideways keeping it parallel with the original position? Something else?

Thanks,

pj
chgo

#### BRKNRUN

##### Showin some A\$\$
Silver Member
Patrick Johnson said:
Of course, "just outside the edge of the shaft" means something slightly different for different tip widths. The difference between half of a 14mm shaft and half of an 11mm shaft is only about 1/16", but that makes a difference on thin cuts with small margins of error. You'll get used to the amount of adjustment that applies to your tip width.

What exactly do you mean by "pivot"? Pivot the tip by moving your back hand (like with BHE)? Move the whole shaft sideways keeping it parallel with the original position? Something else?

Thanks,

pj
chgo

True statment and good point on the shaft thickness...

The way I personally apply the "shish-ke-bob" (I only do it on this one particular shot for super thin cuts)

I guess you could call it reverse BHE...I line up the cue straight through the 1/4 CB axis...I simply pivot the cue back to center before I stroke the shot...It is not a big pivot, but I do pivot the cue.

The way I apply it is I keep the bridge hand in place.....You could apply the pivot on the actual stroke as well if you wanted.....or you could actually move your brige hand to apply the pivot...

I think that any of the three methods will work once you get the proper feel...which is really the whole point of the method...if allows you to use easy references on the CB and OB to get a feel for your alignment.....(Instead of having to aim through center CB off into space or a point on the rail, or have to align edges with the cue being aligned with center at the same time)

It probably isnt a (true) mathematically correct 1/4 subtraction, but it is close enough to work surprisingly well...

Something interesting is that if you wanted to apply inside english on the shot, you would almost be back to the 1/4 CB (with a straight shaft)

so in essance it is almost lie you are setting up to hit a inside english cut shot using PE.....using a normal deflection shaft..

As I type this...These points you bring up are probably one of the reasons I have a harder time getting the feel for alignment on thin cuts with shaft that are thicker than 12.75.....I find that the shaft diameter of 12.5 - 12.75 fits much better in my bridge and is quite a bit easier for me to get the feel on a cut shot using this method.....(I will routinely hit cut shots too thick with a thicker shaft)

#### WesleyW

##### AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
RiverCity said:
I made some pictures a while back that might help with the visualization of it. Aim with the edge of the ball, not the cue stick through the center.

For a straight on shot, the edges cover each other like this....

For a 15 degree cut, aim the edge of the cue ball for a 3/4 full hit....

On a 30 degree cut, you are looking at a 1/2 ball hit. In other words the edge of the cue ball is lined up with the center of the object ball.....

If you have a 45 degree cut, the edge of the cue ball only covers 1/4 of the object ball, like this...

A thin cut, approaching 90 degrees is an 1/8th of a ball hit....

There are other angles, throws, skids etc that you have to accommodate for, but this is the gist of most of the fractional aiming systems.
Chuck

I've experiment this aiming system many times and I can tell you, you are making 1 big mistake.

If you are looking at a 1/2 ball hit, you will cut the OB with 30 degrees. But if you want a 30 degree cut, you will miss the shot when you are going for the 1/2 ball hit. It sounds controversial, but it's not.

Let me explain. When you are looking for a 1/2 ball hit, you need to draw the 1/2 ball hit-line (CB to the OB). From this line, you take 30 degrees, deflect away from the line. The imagine line is different, when you are comparing to a full ball hit. So when you drawing an imagining line from a full ball hit and changing your shot to a 1/2 ball hit, the angle will be lesser than 30 degrees.

To apply this aiming system. The first thing you do is aiming at the 3/4 ball hit. Then you need to draw the 3/4 ball hit-line, and imagine the 15 degrees, if this shot will not make the ball, you need to start again, by aiming at a 1/2 ball hit, and draw a 1/2 ball hit-line, and start from there to imagine the 30 degrees.

#### BRKNRUN

##### Showin some A\$\$
Silver Member
WesleyW said:
I've experiment this aiming system many times and I can tell you, you are making 1 big mistake.

If you are looking at a 1/2 ball hit, you will cut the OB with 30 degrees. But if you want a 30 degree cut, you will miss the shot when you are going for the 1/2 ball hit. It sounds controversial, but it's not.

Let me explain. When you are looking for a 1/2 ball hit, you need to draw the 1/2 ball hit-line (CB to the OB). From this line, you take 30 degrees, deflect away from the line. The imagine line is different, when you are comparing to a full ball hit. So when you drawing an imagining line from a full ball hit and changing your shot to a 1/2 ball hit, the angle will be lesser than 30 degrees.

To apply this aiming system. The first thing you do is aiming at the 3/4 ball hit. Then you need to draw the 3/4 ball hit-line, and imagine the 15 degrees, if this shot will not make the ball, you need to start again, by aiming at a 1/2 ball hit, and draw a 1/2 ball hit-line, and start from there to imagine the 30 degrees.

Or us can stand along the OB path to the pocket and imagine the Ghost Ball...Find the "center" of the Ghost Ball and then make your aim line from the Center axis of the CB through the center of your ghost ball...It will tell you exactly which aim to use...(and you never have to know the actual degrees or angles)

I rarely do this any more except for extreme long off angle cuts or if I am practicing my visualization process but you can also do the following during the above process to help find the aim point.

While standing along the OB path line and you pick your required Ghost Ball Contact that will pocket the ball, place the tip of your cue on the cloth right were the center of the Ghost Ball would be...Now (leaving the tip in place, swing the butt end of the cue around so that it is centered over the CB AXIS point...That is your aim line and your cue will now point exactily where you should aim center CB.....(which will be one of the 4 fractional aiming points....or very darn close)

With this method...you don't have to know the degree of cut.......Frankly I can never really tell the difference between 30 degrees and 40 degrees....If you set up two balls on the table and asked me to give you an approxomate guess what the cut angle is...I would probably be wrong by more than 10 degrees.

#### Patrick Johnson

##### Fish of the Day
Silver Member
... when you drawing an imagining line from a full ball hit and changing your shot to a 1/2 ball hit, the angle will be lesser than 30 degrees.

As Bob Jewett said, the shooter just knows "I line it up this way and it goes that way." That's all that's necessary - the actual measurement in degrees isn't important.

pj
chgo

#### billyjack

##### Registered Loser
Silver Member
Thanks all for the input. While my aiming went in the toilet for last Thursday's league night, I definitely think there's something to be gained here by working from fixed points on the OB rather than guessing at the contact point of the side of the CB you can't see at address. Ron V, I'd like to take you up on you're phone call offer. I'll PM you for a good time once I'm back home.

Bill

#### FLICKit

##### AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Finally got a chance to try the fractional ball aiming system. Was amazed at how well it worked.... Made many shots in a row with much ease.

After awhile though, I found that some shots needed a slight bit more accuracy.

Overall, I may need to hone in my angles to fractional aiming numbers a bit more.

The two outside edge shots seemed a bit difficult to zero in. But they definitely get shots close to the pocket with some relative ease. May need to review some tricks on how people do those. The outside edge of the stick helps to get from half ball hit to quarter ball hit. Going further was a bit of a challenge.

Also of note, was that backwards cuts didn't quite seem the same. Seemed like they needed to be cut more (essentially add an extra fraction or so). Did anyone else experience this?