rail work and UPS

dendweller

Active member
So I've talked to someone about doing rail work, have total confidence in them but am worried about the UPS loosing them.

My question is, what do people think my chances are of finding a set of rails for a gold crown 4 if they were lost.

I was thinking I'd buy another set ahead of time but haven't been able to find any.
Thanks
 

David in FL

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So I've talked to someone about doing rail work, have total confidence in them but am worried about the UPS loosing them.

My question is, what do people think my chances are of finding a set of rails for a gold crown 4 if they were lost.

I was thinking I'd buy another set ahead of time but haven't been able to find any.
Thanks

I think you’re worried about something that is extremely unlikely to happen…

If you really are worried, you could at wait till after the holiday rush to ship them. Other than that, I really wouldn’t sweat it.
 

GoldCrown

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
So I've talked to someone about doing rail work, have total confidence in them but am worried about the UPS loosing them.

My question is, what do people think my chances are of finding a set of rails for a gold crown 4 if they were lost.

I was thinking I'd buy another set ahead of time but haven't been able to find any.
Thanks
Maybe Mark Gregory will build a new set for you. Regardless of cost and time they will be as good as is it gets. You’ll have your current ones as a back up.
 
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Willowbrook Wolfy

Your wushu is weak!
I think you’re worried about something that is extremely unlikely to happen…

If you really are worried, you could at wait till after the holiday rush to ship them. Other than that, I really wouldn’t sweat it.
I work for UPS and would ship them now. It’s busier but they have us on 7 days and surprisingly the shifts are a bit slower than normal season because of that this year. Plus it will ship faster now. There are not a lot of lost packages at UPS. The biggest issue is damaged packages with flimsy boxes being the biggest culprit there.
 

jimmyco

NRA4Life
Silver Member
UPS don't lose large packages often.
Employee theft? That is something, but I wouldn't sweat it over rails.
 

Timkrieger

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Ok, I'm an expert on this topic because I have worked at UPS for 7 years and also I have shipped rails to Mark for rail work. Don't buy an extra set of rails. Avoid shipping until after Christmas. Don't ship items you care about, items that can't be replaced, between Thanksgiving and Christmas; this is the UPS peak season obviously and I would generally avoid this as the systems are at max capacity. Next, UPS will not lose your rails, but they could damage them. Oversized packages do not get lost, all packages over 70lbs in the UPS system are characterized as oversized or "irregular" they get special treatment. The best thing to do is to insure the rails as "high value." I insure for $10,000 replacement cost on my Centennial rails. It cost a little extra, maybe even couple hundred bucks, but what you get for that price is white glove treatment through the entire shipment. They get a personal escort at each point of the shipment process.

Finally, if you're shipping rails, build a little cardboard box end-cap to reinforce the ends. Mark Gregory knows this too. I know this from first hand bad experience, protect the ends! You need to double, triple reinforce the ends to protect them in transit.
 

Hoogaar

Registered
probably a stupid question, but I'll ask anyway. I see a lot of people that have sent their rails in to a few different well regarded guys to "get them done" - what exactly is it that they do that is so special?

I know absolutely nothing about table set up or table mechanics or anything like that. As such, I have a hard time imagining what they could possibly do to for it to be worth the investment. I'm guessing you're looking at close to $1000 for shipping to and fro plus the work? Maybe even more?
 

David in FL

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I insured my GC4 rails for $5000 dollars when I shipped them to Mark, lol. At least if they got lost on the way I'd have a chance at coming out ok.

Sadly, that’s not how shipping insurance works.

If they “lose” 4 wheels that you shipped, they’re not replacing your car, regardless of any inflated value you assigned to those wheels… 😉
 

rexus31

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Sadly, that’s not how shipping insurance works.

If they “lose” 4 wheels that you shipped, they’re not replacing your car, regardless of any inflated value you assigned to those wheels… 😉
Do you think the UPS clerk knows the value? If you tell them replacement value is $5,000 they will insure for $5,000.
 

Lawnboy77

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Maybe Mark Gregory will build a new set for you. Regardless of cost and time they will be as good as is it gets. You’ll have your current ones as a back up.
This is exactly what I did as well. You can have the originals returned to original specs after the pro-cut customs return safely, and when all finished you will have the option to go tight, or standard size pockets. No down time with this method either, and that down time can be fairly significant if the mechanic is backed up with projects.
 

David in FL

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Do you think the UPS clerk knows the value? If you tell them replacement value is $5,000 they will insure for $5,000.
Of course the clerk doesn’t.

They will charge you to insure it for $5000, but when it comes time to make a claim the insurance company/department knows the value…

Just because I insure a box of Kleenex for $10,000, doesn’t mean that when it goes missing that’s what I get paid, even if I paid the cost of $10,000 worth of insurance.
 

fastone371

Certifiable
Silver Member
I sent my Gold Crown rails out to be modified. I made reusable wooden crates lined with 2" thick Styrofoam insulation. They where glued and screwed together except the end caps which I had marked, all they had to do was remove 4 screws o get the rails out. They shipped both ways just fine. Maybe I should rent the crates out, I still have them, they were too nice to just throw away.
 

GoldCrown

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I sent my Gold Crown rails out to be modified. I made reusable wooden crates lined with 2" thick Styrofoam insulation. They where glued and screwed together except the end caps which I had marked, all they had to do was remove 4 screws o get the rails out. They shipped both ways just fine. Maybe I should rent the crates out, I still have them, they were too nice to just throw away.
Crating yes....same as shipping expensive artwork. DIY or have the rails professionally crated/shipped.
 

CESSNA10

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
So I've talked to someone about doing rail work, have total confidence in them but am worried about the UPS loosing them.

My question is, what do people think my chances are of finding a set of rails for a gold crown 4 if they were lost.

I was thinking I'd buy another set ahead of time but haven't been able to find any.
Thanks
I would not worry about ups but look out for fedex.
They make th post office look good
 

bradsh98

Bradshaw Billiard Service
Gold Member
Silver Member
probably a stupid question, but I'll ask anyway. I see a lot of people that have sent their rails in to a few different well regarded guys to "get them done" - what exactly is it that they do that is so special?

I know absolutely nothing about table set up or table mechanics or anything like that. As such, I have a hard time imagining what they could possibly do to for it to be worth the investment. I'm guessing you're looking at close to $1000 for shipping to and fro plus the work? Maybe even more?
Something to consider: many local installers may only be proficient in setting up a table and installing cloth (if anything..). Because of this, many opt to send their rails to a qualified technician, for any number of advanced modification.

As for the modifications:
Pool table cushions are mounted on an angled surface. This angled surface is what controls the nose height of the cushion, which has a huge impact on the way that the balls rebound from the cushion.

Older Brunswick tables, prior to the mid-1970's, used a cushion profile that is no longer made. Because of this, the old rails require a change to this angular surface, in order to accept a modern day cushion profile. Unfortunately, while the change could be made by running the rail down a table saw, it won't necessarily produce the best results.. As such, those of us who perform quality rail modifications will have custom-made tooling, which allow very precise modification.

In addition to changing the angle of the cushion mounting surface, it will also be necessary to adjust the height of the sub-rail (the top side of the cushion mounting block). This provides consistency across the rail set, as they could vary. While the work is performed, the tooling allows for the rails to be bolted down, the same as if they were mounted on a pool table. This ensures that the modifications will be "perfect" when the rails are installed on the table.

After the rails have been modified to accept a modern-day cushion, the pocket work is performed. A good technician will know which angles to cut the ends of the rails, to create the desired play effect.

Lastly, the technician will likely be very proficient in covering rails, with a high level of quality.

These are only the basics....

Keep in mind, many of these old rails could be beat up from repeated recoverings, and poor execution by past installers. It could be necessary to completely replace the sub-rail, which is not a job for amateurs.

Also, most of the technicians performing this level of work will also replace the floating nut inserts (Gold Crown II+) or the figure 8 nut plate (Gold Crown I) with a Stafast threaded insert, which is much more robust.
 
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