Received my Pro 1/CTE DVD today

JC

Coos Cues
Gold Member
This. And to be more specific, you have be aware that when you are moving into the shot, you are not aiming at anything. That is a very foreign concept, you'll only begin to understand after going through the motions.

That's the part that makes no sense at all. I see the two lines, no problem but then I put my bridge hand down somewhere. How can you put it down in the proper spot if you aren't aiming at something somehow? If it's not in the correct spot then after pivoting the cue tip will also not propel the cue ball in the exact proper direction to pocket the ball center pocket. You must be aiming at something, to do this or you will never put your bridge down in the correct spot. I understand your tip is placed down a half tip one way or the other but at what angle? None of this makes even a tiny bit of sense and I have now watched the video at my table and tried to do what it says but this one detail seems to be left up to something other than science. Isn't that how I aim now using ghost ball and fractions? By guessing where to start?
 

champ2107

Banned
once you have picked the two lines up and you are holding the visual of the two lines just move straight in to the half tip offset pivot position and then pivot to center and shoot. I don't get why people find this so hard? you have a reference point (center cue ball)to guide you to exactly where you have to be. lol look at the link below, i am moving straight to a right half tip offset position and then pivoting to center cue ball lol
 
Last edited:

JC

Coos Cues
Gold Member
once you have picked the two lines up and you are holding the visual of the two lines just move straight in to the half tip offset pivot position and then pivot to center and shoot. I don't get why people find this so hard? you have a reference point (center cue ball)to guide you to exactly where you have to be. lol look at the link below, i am moving straight to a right half tip offset position and then pivoting to center cue ball lol

So are you sliding into the shot bisecting the lines or on one of the two or what? Your cue tip has to be pointing somewhere when you place your hand down before you pivot doesn't it? Seeing two distinct yet different lines doesn't tell you where to place your hand. Maybe I'm just too stupid to understand this whole thing.
 

champ2107

Banned
So are you sliding into the shot bisecting the lines or on one of the two or what? Your cue tip has to be pointing somewhere when you place your hand down before you pivot doesn't it? Seeing two distinct yet different lines doesn't tell you where to place your hand. Maybe I'm just too stupid to understand this whole thing.

the line you will be closest to sliding on is the ctel and you can use that line in the beginning to help guide your cue to the half tip offset position. you are thinking too much about where your tip should be pointing. this system gets over thought too much and failure occurs :)
 

JC

Coos Cues
Gold Member
the line you will be closest to sliding on is the ctel and you can use that line in the beginning to help guide your cue to the half tip offset position. you are thinking too much about where your tip should be pointing. this system gets over thought too much and failure occurs :)

I have no problem with the pivot as I have been using back hand english well for quite some time. It's just pivoting out to center instead of center to out. So if you're going to use the CTE line as your guide to aim at pre pivot then what is the reference line for? My conclusion is that the placement of your bridge hand is the part of it that takes much practice and intuition in order for the system to work. And that this intuition may be easier to learn with less practice than the intuition required to make cuts shots around the ticks of the balls using ghost or fraction methods thus shortening the learning curve for the memorized motion part of aiming. Also that the total aiming areas needed to be learned are just a wedge shaped portion of the 180 degrees around the object ball. But they still need to be learned and memorized, there's just less of them. Am I wrong? If so how?
 

champ2107

Banned
I have no problem with the pivot as I have been using back hand english well for quite some time. It's just pivoting out to center instead of center to out. So if you're going to use the CTE line as your guide to aim at pre pivot then what is the reference line for? My conclusion is that the placement of your bridge hand is the part of it that takes much practice and intuition in order for the system to work. And that this intuition may be easier to learn with less practice than the intuition required to make cuts shots around the ticks of the balls using ghost or fraction methods thus shortening the learning curve for the memorized motion part of aiming. Also that the total aiming areas needed to be learned are just a wedge shaped portion of the 180 degrees around the object ball. But they still need to be learned and memorized, there's just less of them. Am I wrong? If so how?

reference line you are talking about is considered the aim line. That line helps your physical positioning. just pick up both lines in your visuals like stan shows, offset your body on a 45 degree while doing that and JUST move straight to the half tip offset position. (the left or right side of the vertical axis of the cue ball is your target) again stop over thinking this!
 
Last edited:

JC

Coos Cues
Gold Member
Thanks Everyone

I don't think I'm necessarily overthinking it. For some it's enough to know that something works and others want to know why.

Kind of like the difference between solving an algebra problem with the aid of a calculator or with just a pencil and paper.

I will shoot many shots now prior to posting here again.
 

champ2107

Banned
I don't think I'm necessarily overthinking it. For some it's enough to know that something works and others want to know why.

Kind of like the difference between solving an algebra problem with the aid of a calculator or with just a pencil and paper.

I will shoot many shots now prior to posting here again.

it is wise to learn how to do it and then figure out "why it works" This is where all the failures have occurred, right PJ :thumbup:
 

mohrt

Student of the Game
Silver Member
Once you have your visuals of the two lines, without moving your head, look at the cb. Now, find center of cb, and slide your bridge hand up to where you want it while keeping your tip pointed at half a tip off center of the cb. Then just pivot to the center of the cb, and shoot. You can, and should look at the ob last, but be careful not to change what you are aimed at. Even if it looks like it won't go, shoot down that line anyways and see what happens.

This is a pretty good description. When sliding in, you are not "aiming" down either of these reference lines, but instead moving straight in on the visual, or the face of the cue ball, whichever works better for you to understand.

If you want to know all the hows and whys before you try to execute the system, you'll go down the same road all the naysayers do. That is just the reality, no one has a mathematical diagram for this, yet. However, that is not necessary to make it work.
 

champ2107

Banned
This is a pretty good description. When sliding in, you are not "aiming" down either of these reference lines, but instead moving straight in on the visual, or the face of the cue ball, whichever works better for you to understand.

If you want to know all the hows and whys before you try to execute the system, you'll go down the same road all the naysayers do. That is just the reality, no one has a mathematical diagram for this, yet. However, that is not necessary to make it work.

when your trying to help these new guys out, they will not understand "moving straight in on the visual" as you noticed above, you quote the dvd which these guys have in front of them. You have to find away that they will understand, the easiest way for these guys to understand is to follow the ctel in at the beginning until they get some experience.
 
Last edited:

scottjen26

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Agree that we should try to explain it in other ways, but I also find using the language that Stan uses helpful in being consistent.

For me, there were a few difficult things that you have to get past in order to "get" the system, assuming you are trying to analyze it before just trying it out as described at a table:

1) Where to aim. You aren't really aiming at any specific thing - point on the ball, on the table, etc. You pick up the lines (visuals) as described, and when you have that good, solid picture of the OB, you simply slide in toward the OB along that line, tunnel, plane, etc., however you want to look at it. For the manual version, that means you are sliding in down the line of aim with your tip offset 1/2 tip on the proper side for the shot.

I know it seems weird, and I've seen the question asked a bunch of times, and I for one can't explain it, but it works. I use the CTE line as more of starting reference, then I shift eyes/head as necessary to pick up the secondary aim line. Once I "see" that picture, I know I'm visually lined up correctly. With just a bit of practice, your bridge hand will align with your visual picture of the shot, just like it does when you are using any other method - we don't usually look at the table when placing our bridge hand using ghost ball or anything else, our brain is very good at putting it in the right position to hit the spot our eyes are looking at

2) Knowing when to use what aim line and pivot. This is not summarized in the DVD but rather taught through a bunch of examples that you have to work through, and working through those is key to understanding the system and seeing that it works. It has been summarized here in many different threads, and I'm sure myself and others would be happy to do so again for anyone struggling with this after watching the DVD.

3) Getting used to the pivoting concept, and learning to trust the shot. For me, the pivoting wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it would be, especially once I switched to Pro1, it's so seamless now I doubt anyone can even tell that I'm doing it. Even when done manually someone would really have to watch you once it's ingrained into your routine.


If you follow the instructions on the DVD, ask any questions you have here on the forum, and suspend your preconceived notions of aiming the way you always have, I think you'll find that the system works as described, and if you find you pocket balls better with it than it might be something to adopt.

Scott
 

mohrt

Student of the Game
Silver Member
when your trying to help these new guys out, they will not understand "moving straight in on the visual" as you noticed above, you quote the dvd which these guys have in front of them. You have to find away that they will understand, the easiest way for these guys to understand is to follow the ctel in at the beginning until they get some experience.

You tell em what you want.
 

mohrt

Student of the Game
Silver Member
lol still bitter because i spoke the truth about the system you use? you dont even use cte/pro1

Why are you trying to pick a fight with me? I don't care how you teach the system, you do what you want. That is what I meant by that statement. I have nothing to be bitter about, and you obviously have no idea what I use.
 

mohrt

Student of the Game
Silver Member
Agree that we should try to explain it in other ways, but I also find using the language that Stan uses helpful in being consistent.

For me, there were a few difficult things that you have to get past in order to "get" the system, assuming you are trying to analyze it before just trying it out as described at a table:

1) Where to aim. You aren't really aiming at any specific thing - point on the ball, on the table, etc. You pick up the lines (visuals) as described, and when you have that good, solid picture of the OB, you simply slide in toward the OB along that line, tunnel, plane, etc., however you want to look at it. For the manual version, that means you are sliding in down the line of aim with your tip offset 1/2 tip on the proper side for the shot.

I know it seems weird, and I've seen the question asked a bunch of times, and I for one can't explain it, but it works. I use the CTE line as more of starting reference, then I shift eyes/head as necessary to pick up the secondary aim line. Once I "see" that picture, I know I'm visually lined up correctly. With just a bit of practice, your bridge hand will align with your visual picture of the shot, just like it does when you are using any other method - we don't usually look at the table when placing our bridge hand using ghost ball or anything else, our brain is very good at putting it in the right position to hit the spot our eyes are looking at

2) Knowing when to use what aim line and pivot. This is not summarized in the DVD but rather taught through a bunch of examples that you have to work through, and working through those is key to understanding the system and seeing that it works. It has been summarized here in many different threads, and I'm sure myself and others would be happy to do so again for anyone struggling with this after watching the DVD.

3) Getting used to the pivoting concept, and learning to trust the shot. For me, the pivoting wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it would be, especially once I switched to Pro1, it's so seamless now I doubt anyone can even tell that I'm doing it. Even when done manually someone would really have to watch you once it's ingrained into your routine.


If you follow the instructions on the DVD, ask any questions you have here on the forum, and suspend your preconceived notions of aiming the way you always have, I think you'll find that the system works as described, and if you find you pocket balls better with it than it might be something to adopt.

Scott

Good stuff. When I reached proficiency with manual CTE, I began to see from a standing position which direction the pivot would be, left or right. Then I was able to see the line I would end up post pivot. From there I was able to slide the cue directly into the post-pivot position. Ala, Pro1. Two great things about Pro1: 1) You don't need to manually pivot, and 2) The bridge hand placement makes no difference, put it where it is comfortable.
 

champ2107

Banned
Why are you trying to pick a fight with me? I don't care how you teach the system, you do what you want. That is what I meant by that statement. I have nothing to be bitter about, and you obviously have no idea what I use.

lol yea im trying to pick a fight! you got a little upset when i told the truth about the cte system you use and you and the others flamed me out! you guys are part of the mis guided cte claims mixing in the system you use together with pro1. you use the hal houle 1/2 pivot system, you then changed the name of it, i have followed that site you have up and see your mindset change from over the last couple months on cte. i have never changed my view of it in 4 years. you guys quote stan from the dvd, which these guys have in front of them and they are struggling trying to understand it and you think its going to help them, right!?!
 
Last edited:

champ2107

Banned
Agree that we should try to explain it in other ways, but I also find using the language that Stan uses helpful in being consistent.

For me, there were a few difficult things that you have to get past in order to "get" the system, assuming you are trying to analyze it before just trying it out as described at a table:

1) Where to aim. You aren't really aiming at any specific thing - point on the ball, on the table, etc. You pick up the lines (visuals) as described, and when you have that good, solid picture of the OB, you simply slide in toward the OB along that line, tunnel, plane, etc., however you want to look at it. For the manual version, that means you are sliding in down the line of aim with your tip offset 1/2 tip on the proper side for the shot.

I know it seems weird, and I've seen the question asked a bunch of times, and I for one can't explain it, but it works. I use the CTE line as more of starting reference, then I shift eyes/head as necessary to pick up the secondary aim line. Once I "see" that picture, I know I'm visually lined up correctly. With just a bit of practice, your bridge hand will align with your visual picture of the shot, just like it does when you are using any other method - we don't usually look at the table when placing our bridge hand using ghost ball or anything else, our brain is very good at putting it in the right position to hit the spot our eyes are looking at

2) Knowing when to use what aim line and pivot. This is not summarized in the DVD but rather taught through a bunch of examples that you have to work through, and working through those is key to understanding the system and seeing that it works. It has been summarized here in many different threads, and I'm sure myself and others would be happy to do so again for anyone struggling with this after watching the DVD.

3) Getting used to the pivoting concept, and learning to trust the shot. For me, the pivoting wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it would be, especially once I switched to Pro1, it's so seamless now I doubt anyone can even tell that I'm doing it. Even when done manually someone would really have to watch you once it's ingrained into your routine.


If you follow the instructions on the DVD, ask any questions you have here on the forum, and suspend your preconceived notions of aiming the way you always have, I think you'll find that the system works as described, and if you find you pocket balls better with it than it might be something to adopt.

Scott

scott you yourself said it did not click in until you seen a picture of the visuals with the baseballs in it, i continue to give an answer different ways until that particular person catches on, i try not to repeat failure over and over, you know what i mean? :thumbup: as for me i had know help learning the system, i did it all on my own, experimenting until i got it. These guys have to find out stuff through trial and error so i just try to guide them in the right direction.
 
Last edited:

sfleinen

14.1 & One Pocket Addict
Gold Member
Silver Member
Why are you trying to pick a fight with me? I don't care how you teach the system, you do what you want. That is what I meant by that statement. I have nothing to be bitter about, and you obviously have no idea what I use.

Monte:

Quick suggestion: bit bucket 'im. No use in trying to defend yourself, as you're one of the most courteous, helpful, and respectful folks on this entire forum. Everyone knows that. Bit bucket 'im (like a lot of us have), and you'll be rid of that obstacle.

Keep up the great work on the blog. It's appreciated by a lot of us out here!
-Sean
 
Top