Recommend a Shot

[jdr]

I've had this situation come up a couple times in the last month and I really haven't decided what the best play is. It usually comes up when the opponent is playing safe. The game is 9 ball and you can barely clip the right side of the 8.

I've been leaning towards kicking at the 8 hitting the head rail and the rail near the 8 (2 rails) to try to get the 8 to the foot rail and the cueball behind the 9. But I'd be interested in hearing other ideas. Thanks.

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[cigardave]

If jump cues are allowed I would definitely jump the 9 with the intent of having the 8 go two rails and end up at/near the Brunswick. I would jump to get draw off of the 8. Looks like it would take a slight cut to the right and therefore whitey could sneak back behind the 9 if I get a great roll. By jumping, I'm looking to get the most separation between the 8 and whitey.

If jump cues are not allowed, I'd kick to the short rail up by the headstring... with the intent of going rail first before hitting the 8. I'd go this way because the odds are better re-tying up my opponent... by comparison to going to the nearer short rail first.

 

[socks]

if you can see and clip the 8, i'd say clip the 8, it should send the cue ball to the head rail and the 8 to the foot rail. for the slightly more daring, could do a slight masse, doesnt require much on this one, and that would send the 8 to the head rail and the cue to the foot rail behind the 9.

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[okinawa77]

So, let me get this straight. Is this what you are trying to do?

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[socks]

So, let me get this straight. Is this what you are trying to do?

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FYI: To show the track lines, double-click on the ball and draw the track line. When you are done drawing the track line, double-click again to end the track line editing.

this is how i read jdr's shot discription

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not sure why you would go for a long way kick, especially if you can see the ball....

 

[av84fun]

No matter what you do (except luck the 8 in) your opponent is the heavy favorite to win.

Jumping the 9...as far away from the CB that it is and as close to the rail as the 8 is would present a significant risk of hopping the CB off the table for a sell out.

Clipping the 8 is certainly an option.

In addition, kicking off the head or foot rails would present high probability of hitting the 8. The head rail kick is both more difficult and would send the 8 near the corner pocket...unless you luck it in.

Kicking off the foot rail would lessen that risk and is also an easier shot. If the shot came up in a Hill/Hill rack, other than asking the opponent if he would settle for half the wager...I would clip the 8.
(-:

 

[Andrew Manning]

So, let me get this straight. Is this what you are trying to do?

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FYI: To show the track lines, double-click on the ball and draw the track line. When you are done drawing the track line, double-click again to end the track line editing.

I don't think that's what he was talking about, but that is the shot I'd attempt here. Seems fairly high percentage to get the hook, and if you don't hook him, he still probably can't see enough of it to make it, meaning a difficult return safety is all he has, and even if he can see enough of the ball, I don't envy him shooting that shot trying to get position on the 9.

-Andrew

 

[jdr]

this is how i read jdr's shot discription

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not sure why you would go for a long way kick, especially if you can see the ball....

yeah, that's kinda what I settled on. (I think it's also CigarDave's recommendation). When I would hit directly into the ball, this is what would happen. (Maybe my original cuetable diagram is a little off, but it's a very thin cut into the 8.) I think the induced spin on the 8 from hitting on the left side of the 8 causes the angle to shorten up, making it harder to get it behind the 9. Also, the 8 barely moves because of the thin hit. The times I've tried this, it was a sell out.

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[Jude Rosenstock]

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This is the option I thought of, too. I like this one the most. It's not terribly difficult to execute and has a wide margin of error. The spin is going to send the cueball to the footrail automatically. It's not unfathomable to think you're better than 50/50 to win with this shot.

 

[okinawa77]

I like Socks masse shot. I think I would feel more comfortable shooting this shot.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

I like Socks masse shot. I think I would feel more comfortable shooting this shot.

Yeah, it's practically a no brainer. You don't even have to jack-up that high.

 

[av84fun]

Yeah, it's practically a no brainer. You don't even have to jack-up that high.

I'm sure you are a TOP player and have seen your name placing high in some tournaments.

So it is with respect that I suggest that in a pro match or an action game involving such players with serious money involved, they would rarely opt for the curve shot.

Using a straight edge, it is apparent that nearly the full 8 ball can be struck without curve thereby providing extremely predictable outcomes for the CB and the 8.

Sure, even bangers could hit the 8 with curve but the issue becomes where? Even for top players IMHO predicting the outcomes of both balls given the curving approach path CIT imparted to the 8 and the effect of side on the departure angle and speed of the CB coming off the rail would introduce unacceptable variables vs. clipping the 8 at a specifically known CP.

On the other hand, any player who believes that he/she can control a curve shot over a distance of around 3 feet and hit the OB within a tolerance of, say, 1/4 inch should certainly shoot that shot.

Regards,
Jim

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

On the other hand, any player who believes that he/she can control a curve shot over a distance of around 3 feet and hit the OB within a tolerance of, say, 1/4 inch should certainly shoot that shot.

Regards,
Jim

Exactly. I mean, I know I can perform this sort of masse and have reasonable control even from 8 feet out (I did it yesterday). You have to be familiar with this shot. The key is, you're only about 20 inches away from the 9 ball so you won't even have to hit it that hard to get the proper masse.

 

[steev]

y'all should keep in mind that the diagram isn't exact. he said you can only 'clip' the 8. if it's as thin as that, the masse seems like the best option by far.

of course i'm a hero so i go for the jump bank to win.

-s

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

of course i'm a hero so i go for the jump bank to win.

-s

That's fine so long as you don't start threads with titles like, "How come my winning percentage sucks?"

 

[Patrick Johnson]

If jump cues are allowed I would definitely jump the 9

I don't think a jump is feasible with this layout. If the 9 was closer to the cue ball than to the 8, maybe.

I also think the masse is pretty wishful - you're essentially trying to accomplish the same thing you'd be trying to do by thinning the 8 (in the opposite directions), except with the added difficulty of the masse.

I'd thin the 8 and 2-rail to the foot rail near the upper right corner pocket, hoping to hide the 8 between the 9 and the lower left corner pocket. It ain't particularly high percentage, but what is from here?

pj
chgo

 

[av84fun]

I don't think a jump is feasible with this layout. If the 9 was closer to the cue ball than to the 8, maybe.

I also think the masse is pretty wishful - remember, both balls have to get where you want them to go. I'd thin the 8 and 2-rail to the foot rail near the upper right corner pocket, hoping to hide the 8 between the 9 and the lower left corner pocket. It ain't particularly high percentage, but what is from here?

pj
chgo

HEY...WE FINALLY AGREE ON SOMETHING!! The world must be about to end!
(-:

 

[av84fun]

Exactly. I mean, I know I can perform this sort of masse and have reasonable control even from 8 feet out (I did it yesterday). You have to be familiar with this shot. The key is, you're only about 20 inches away from the 9 ball so you won't even have to hit it that hard to get the proper masse.

Cool! Some are much more adept on curve shots than others and frankly, I think that many shots are jumped that could be better approached by curving.

It's just that we see that kind of shot coming up all the time in pro matches and yet I can count on one hand the number of times that I've seen pros shoot curves in the past few years...and I have seen all the televised events and have tons of videos as well. They much more often kick or jump.

You must have practiced curves a great deal..which is GREAT and as I suggested is something of a vanishing art due to jumping.

Regards,
Jim

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Cool! Some are much more adept on curve shots than others and frankly, I think that many shots are jumped that could be better approached by curving.

It's just that we see that kind of shot coming up all the time in pro matches and yet I can count on one hand the number of times that I've seen pros shoot curves in the past few years...and I have seen all the televised events and have tons of videos as well. They much more often kick or jump.

You must have practiced curves a great deal..which is GREAT and as I suggested is something of a vanishing art due to jumping.

Regards,
Jim

Actually, going through some of the BCTV videos on youtube, I've seen a few curve-shots performed (http://www.youtube.com/user/BClub).

I think a lot of new amateurs lean on their jump cues a little too much and pay less and less attention to the art of kicks and masses.

 

[av84fun]

Actually, going through some of the BCTV videos on youtube, I've seen a few curve-shots performed (http://www.youtube.com/user/BClub).

I think a lot of new amateurs lean on their jump cues a little too much and pay less and less attention to the art of kicks and masses.

TOTALLY agree!