Reyes & Parica Rivalry

[JoeyInCali]

Although he was not as successful overall in torunament play, I think head-to-head Parica has a winning record against Reyes in tournaments. I saw Jose beat Efren 13-4 in the finals of a big tournament at Hollywood Billiards in the late 90's/early 2000's with an unreal gear. And of course, Jose was the most feared 9-ball money player on the planet for a long time.

I was there at Hollywood.
Efren had to sit for 2 hours because he was on the hot seat.
We went across the street and ate at the Thai restaurant.
Efren was full when he played the finals and could not concentrate.
Then, the week after, he won the Gabriel's Open in Las Vegas.
Won a few overall titles at the Derby City.
Efren went the finals of the US Open 4 years in a row.
Beat Jose in the semis in 1997.
Won the World 9 in 1999.

 

[Stevexjfe]

cool thread
I have a memory of reading that efren beat up on everybody, including parica, I believe before cesar came stateside
I'll dig around and see if I could find it..I think it may have been in a mag, prob billiards digest
I've also read separately that efren played his best game in the 70s, couldn't find a game so he picked up carom
who knows tho..really, who knows? and is telling it like it was? would like to hear from them..

Yea Efren claims his best game is from 1972-76, he was going to travel to the US in 1979 a year after Parica did but an article was written about pool where the author had gone to the Philippines and seen Efren play. The article described a player called "Efren" which he delayed his travels and went to the US 5 years after with an alias name. I did find something regarding Efren and Parica, in this article written in 1983 it speaks about Efren beating Parica in money matches since 1976.

Efren Reyes: King of the Billiard Hotshots!

Here is very rare find on Filipino pool player Efren Bata Reyes , aka The Magician ! " Efren Reyes : The Making of a Filipino Pocket Billia...

anitokid.blogspot.com

 

[ShootingArts]

The problem with how two players would match up at their peak is that their peaks are usually not at the same time. I was in Greenway one night and just looking around before getting on a table when a guy nudged me and said, "stay away from that little Mexican!" Parica was playing nine ball and from what I saw that night and a handful of times afterwards, nobody had to like what Parica could lay down on a given night, big track or short.

Parica's stay in Baton Rouge was for a few months that trip best I recall, might have been just weeks. This was before Efren came over by a few years. I don't know who came before Parica but I have always considered him the point of the Filipino invasion.

Parica never had the flash of Efren, I wouldn't say Efren was more likely to get the cheese. I'm sure either would have negotiated a spot if they could get it, I doubt either needed it.

Parica taught me that "Mexicans" could be a tough nut to crack. It was a long time before I learned he wasn't really Mexican.

The best might be the one that got the first opening because the other might never get a real shot at a ball all night.

Hu

 

[HomeBrewer]

I LOVE Efren, he is the most creative player of all time and its his style and creativity that puts him above Parica. Perica was never the One Pocket player that Efern is, but in 9 Ball or 10 Ball I'd take Parica too.

There's a old Acc-Stats video of Parica running over Earl and it will give you some insight to how well Parica's rotation game was.

And yeah, Efren also plays high class billiards (straight rail, balkline and three cushion).

 

[evergruven]

Yea Efren claims his best game is from 1972-76, he was going to travel to the US in 1979 a year after Parica did but an article was written about pool where the author had gone to the Philippines and seen Efren play. The article described a player called "Efren" which he delayed his travels and went to the US 5 years after with an alias name. I did find something regarding Efren and Parica, in this article written in 1983 it speaks about Efren beating Parica in money matches since 1976.

Efren Reyes: King of the Billiard Hotshots!

Here is very rare find on Filipino pool player Efren Bata Reyes , aka The Magician ! " Efren Reyes : The Making of a Filipino Pocket Billia...

anitokid.blogspot.com

nice post and link, thanks for sharing
interesting in 1983 parica himself was referred to as "past his prime"- !
and even back then, efren was most proud of his game in the 70s
and even back then, efren's creativity and on-table magic was evident
I wonder who took first at the japan invitational where bata placed 2nd?

as talented as these pool players are, they also play chess..difficult to take their word for it re: who's best
at any rate, the convo is fascinating. do you have an opinion about who spotted who, raph?

 

[pt109]

People seem to forget that Jose is five years older than Efren. When Jose was dominating the Japan tournaments, 7out of 8, and a second,
Efren was playing in them also, at least some of them.
And I was told by a man close to them that Jose was the best money player ever of the Pinoys.
They had two different approaches to the game…Jose could shove his chips with both hands…Efren was playing a set for $500 once.
Jose said that even at that price, Efren never bet his own money.

But Efren’s approach to his career might have been the better one, pretty sure he ended up with more money in his old age.

 

[Stevexjfe]

nice post and link, thanks for sharing
interesting in 1983 parica himself was referred to as "past his prime"- !
and even back then, efren was most proud of his game in the 70s
and even back then, efren's creativity and on-table magic was evident
I wonder who took first at the japan invitational where bata placed 2nd?

as talented as these pool players are, they also play chess..difficult to take their word for it re: who's best
at any rate, the convo is fascinating. do you have an opinion about who spotted who, ralph?

I'm not sure and we may never know! It's all conjecture at the end of the day. I just thought It would be an interesting forum to create and was fascinated to listen to what people thought about it.

 

[sjm]

I'm surprised by the poll results, although the real answer is they didn't match up too often.

Back in the 1990s, there weren't many who thought Efren the better action player than Jose at nine-ball.

PS Although it's possible, it's very hard to believe, regardless of what Efren says, that he played his best pool in the 1970s, because he didn't learn the fringe games until the 1990s and learning the fringe games made him a much more complete player in front of our very eyes.

 

[JoeyInCali]

I'm surprised by the poll results, although the real answer is they didn't match up too often.

Back in the 1990s, there weren't many who thought Efren the better action player than Jose at nine-ball.

PS Although it's possible, it's very hard to believe, regardless of what Efren says, that he played his best pool in the 1970s, because he didn't learn the fringe games until the 1990s and learning the fringe games made him a much more complete player in front of our very eyes.

He's basing his speed in 15-ball rotation.
Back then , he spotted everyone in rotation.
That includes Bustamante, Andam and Luat.

 

[evergruven]

I'm not sure and we may never know! It's all conjecture at the end of the day. I just thought It would be an interesting forum to create and was fascinated to listen to what people thought about it.

you just summed up well what I love about this place. thanks for sharing!
ps sorry I initially got your name wrong, raph..the "l" has been removed

 

[CrownCityCorey]

I am not a believer that both of Efren and Jose's primes lined up. Parica became a great player much earlier on.

Personally, I've played both of them for cash and in tournament play, and both are a very, very intimidating and tough opponents. Efren is much smoother and a more consistent player, but Jose has this "grit" where he can just dig in and become unbeatable for a time. Sometimes a very long time... IMO, this makes Jose a tougher cash opponent than Efren is. But, Efren's consistency makes him a tougher tournament opponent.

So to answer the OP question, for the cash... early on Jose is giving Efren weight in all pocket games. Later in their careers, I still liked Jose apart from One Pocket and Straight Pool which Efren really took too and excelled at.

Jose has always been underrated due to his: lack of humility, simpler game, and narrower audience for cash games.

 

[sjm]

He's basing his speed in 15-ball rotation.
Back then , he spotted everyone in rotation.
That includes Bustamante, Andam and Luat.

Yes, that makes sense. Thanks for that insight.

 

[CanadianGuy]

I'm not sold on including any game other than 9 ball when making the comparisons with these two, same with Buddy and Earl, the four of which I consider the greatest ever

 

[ShortBusRuss]

People seem to forget that Jose is five years older than Efren. When Jose was dominating the Japan tournaments, 7out of 8, and a second,
Efren was playing in them also, at least some of them.
And I was told by a man close to them that Jose was the best money player ever of the Pinoys.
They had two different approaches to the game…Jose could shove his chips with both hands…Efren was playing a set for $500 once.
Jose said that even at that price, Efren never bet his own money.

But Efren’s approach to his career might have been the better one, pretty sure he ended up with more money in his old age.

Funny story about that. Jose's wife has money, and has subsidized Jose's billiard career for quite a long time. I think there might have been a stipend involved for much of that time.

 

[ShootingArts]

nice post and link, thanks for sharing
interesting in 1983 parica himself was referred to as "past his prime"- !
and even back then, efren was most proud of his game in the 70s
and even back then, efren's creativity and on-table magic was evident
I wonder who took first at the japan invitational where bata placed 2nd?

as talented as these pool players are, they also play chess..difficult to take their word for it re: who's best
at any rate, the convo is fascinating. do you have an opinion about who spotted who, raph?

I think playing chess has more of an impact than most people realize. Before we could practice pattern play on a computer there was chess. When chess patterns are mastered reading a pool table is simple! One odd thing, after playing chess a few years I found checkers immensely harder to play. I had played checkers since I was a toddler but now I was working on end game strategy from the opening moves. That was a brain buster!

Hu

 

[ShortBusRuss]

I think playing chess has more of an impact than most people realize. Before we could practice pattern play on a computer there was chess. When chess patterns are mastered reading a pool table is simple! One odd thing, after playing chess a few years I found checkers immensely harder to play. I had played checkers since I was a toddler but now I was working on end game strategy from the opening moves. That was a brain buster!

Hu

Or, it could be those with better natural ability to recognize patterns extremely quickly are prone to be better at both chess and pool.

We know that pattern recognition is either a structural or biochemical thing, because of how it goes haywire in some forms of mental illness, causing one to see patterns where there are none, i.e. "A Beautiful Mind". Correlation, not Causation.

 

[ShootingArts]

Or, it could be those with better natural ability to recognize patterns extremely quickly are prone to be better at both chess and pool.

We know that pattern recognition is either a structural or biochemical thing, because of how it goes haywire in some forms of mental illness, causing one to see patterns where there are none, i.e. "A Beautiful Mind". Correlation, not Causation.

Russ, I didn't see patterns immediately, it was an acquired skill. Then I struggled with seeing too many patterns. I forget why they were giving me sequence tests long ago. I struggled with those. Not that I couldn't see sequences, I could see multiple equally valid sequences. Piss poor tests!

I have an opinion that seeing patterns and possible outcomes playing chess transfers to other things. Without first one, you don't have the other. I can't remember when I started playing checkers, probably as a toddler. Played for years until my brother and I were bored one day and made that first crude chess set.

Rarely played checkers for the next few years, played a lot of chess. Much to my surprise, when I played checkers again I found the game much more difficult than chess! I was working on the end game pattern from the opening moves and checkers didn't have the flexibility of chess. I think checkers has been cracked now but this was long ago.

Hu

 

[baalpeteor]

I think playing chess has more of an impact than most people realize. Before we could practice pattern play on a computer there was chess. When chess patterns are mastered reading a pool table is simple! One odd thing, after playing chess a few years I found checkers immensely harder to play. I had played checkers since I was a toddler but now I was working on end game strategy from the opening moves. That was a brain buster!

Hu

Then it could be said that a great mind knows how to go between pattern and non-pattern play in the blink of an eye. It seems you were fine with checkers when you "just played" and didn't need "end game strategy" or "opening moves", and now that your brain knows patterns it wants to use just that to see everything else.

 

[MattPoland]

In context of the comments in the article, wouldn’t it have been very likely Parica‘s dominance/legacy would’ve been better cemented in 1986 than Efren’s? I know Efren was making waves in the 80s but I feel like his real legacy building occurred in the 90s and 00s.