Schon or custom SP?

3

32-n-d

Registered
I'm in the market for a new cue and I can't decide what to get. My budget is ~$500 and I'm looking at getting a Schon, Predator SPWU (the wood joint SP), or just having a cuemaker build me a custom. I currently shoot with a 314 shaft and have gotten used to using english on the majority of my shots...but I'm working on breaking that habit to play a more consistent game.

I really want a custom built cue, but I'm afraid that I may not like the feel of it and that I'll have to force myself to like it. I know that in the future, I'll be able to narrow down on what I do and don't like about a cue (balance point, ferrule and joint material, pin size/type...) by shooting with a variety of different setups...but as of now, I have no specific prefrence other than cue weight.

I think that in purchasing a high-end production cue, I'll be buying a cue that, in general, hits good.

Any help is appreciated...thanks in advance.
 
32-n-d said:
I'm in the market for a new cue and I can't decide what to get. My budget is ~$500 and I'm looking at getting a Schon, Predator SPWU (the wood joint SP), or just having a cuemaker build me a custom. I currently shoot with a 314 shaft and have gotten used to using english on the majority of my shots...but I'm working on breaking that habit to play a more consistent game.

I really want a custom built cue, but I'm afraid that I may not like the feel of it and that I'll have to force myself to like it. I know that in the future, I'll be able to narrow down on what I do and don't like about a cue (balance point, ferrule and joint material, pin size/type...) by shooting with a variety of different setups...but as of now, I have no specific prefrence other than cue weight.

I think that in purchasing a high-end production cue, I'll be buying a cue that, in general, hits good.

Any help is appreciated...thanks in advance.
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well, if the cue you have made doesn't fit your game the way you want, you'll know pretty quick and still be able to sell it like new.

for 500 you can get a pretty nice custom cue from middle popularity cuemaker. you won't be able to get near a big name cuemaker for that. unless you find something used on the low end.

can't go wrong with a schon for the most part.

i went through the same phase, not really knowing exactly what i liked..........i went from a 200 muecci to a 350 used BCM custom to a 800 used phillippi.................now i know exactly what i like and i'm having a cue made for me around the same price as my last cue. nothing fancy, just exactly what i want in a cue.

it is gonna cost a little bit to find out exactly what you like, but i got my money back in each cue, except for the muecci.

VAP
 
Thanks for the reply vapoolplayer...I didn't expect to get replys that quick! I'm on the west coast (it's about 4:00am over here)...school really messed up my sleeping habit.

As for the Schon...that's precisely how I feel - "can't go wrong with a schon for the most part." I've hit with a few Schons and I have no complaints...they all hit very solid and predictable.

I think I'm starting to lean more towards getting a custom, for exactly what you said about the resale value. I don't need anything fancy, I just want a great playing cue. With all the cuemakers around...I just don't know who to pick. I know a guy that had a cue made by Ariel Carmeli, but I doubt that he'll let me shoot around with it (the cue has something like 12 points with all sorts of inlays worth at least a few thousand). How did you finally decide which cuemaker to go with? And how come you didn't get a BCM the second time around (after you found what you were looking for in a cue). What made you want to go to another cuemaker rather than getting another BCM to your "more specific" liking.

I'm sure that any of the revered cuemakers mentioned all over the forum are reputable...but I'd like to find a local (So. Cal.) cue maker that could walk me through finding exactly what I want. Or better yet, a cuemaker on the verge of becoming a "big name" so I can get in on their cues while they're cheap.

Thanks again for the reply...

BTW, where does all this AZBilliard Meucci hatred come from? :p
I've never encountered this before I started lurking around the forum. Quite a few strong players I knew are "die-hard" Meucci shooters. I know that they feel "whippy" - but I get insane amounts of english when I shoot with them (especially helpful on a slow table). I guess I respect Meucci since I'm an english junkie (again...I'm learning to cut down on that).
"i got my money back in each cue, except for the muecci." - Ouch.
 
32-n-d said:
Thanks for the reply vapoolplayer...I didn't expect to get replys that quick! I'm on the west coast (it's about 4:00am over here)...school really messed up my sleeping habit..
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if i'm not practicing........i'm on AZB.......i have NO LIFE........

32-n-d said:
I think I'm starting to lean more towards getting a custom, for exactly what you said about the resale value. I don't need anything fancy, I just want a great playing cue. With all the cuemakers around...I just don't know who to pick. I know a guy that had a cue made by Ariel Carmeli, but I doubt that he'll let me shoot around with it (the cue has something like 12 points with all sorts of inlays worth at least a few thousand). How did you finally decide which cuemaker to go with? And how come you didn't get a BCM the second time around (after you found what you were looking for in a cue). What made you want to go to another cuemaker rather than getting another BCM to your "more specific" liking...
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i'm pretty good friends with the local cuemaker, so i'm letting him build the cue for me. if for some reason it doesn't hit like i want it to, i'll get my money back out of it. i'm also on the list for a Hercek cue, but thats about 5.5-6 years away, so i'll be needing a cue till then. i

i would have gone with another BCM cue, but like i said, i know the guy here, and brian is out in arizona, so i figured i'd let the local man do it.

the phillippi i have was a spur of the moment thing, i saw it, liked how it looked, then when i picked it up, i knew i had to have it, so i bought it a week later. i love it for the most part, except the butt of the cue is a little thick in the back for my liking. and its about a 19.1, i've found that 18.7 with a little forward balance and a thin butt is the best for me.



32-n-d said:
BTW, where does all this AZBilliard Meucci hatred come from? :p
I've never encountered this before I started lurking around the forum. Quite a few strong players I knew are "die-hard" Meucci shooters. I know that they feel "whippy" - but I get insane amounts of english when I shoot with them (especially helpful on a slow table). I guess I respect Meucci since I'm an english junkie (again...I'm learning to cut down on that).
"i got my money back in each cue, except for the muecci." - Ouch.
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no offense to anyone, but muecci's are one of the worst hitting cue's for my taste. i started out with one, because i saw alot of them. i got alot of action, and it made me think i was hot shit, but after my stroke smoothed out, i was getting far too much action, and not enough control.

seems like everyone at one point and time has owned a muecci and sold it.........LOL

VAP
 
I have never owned a meucci dont know why but just never like them. Never hit with one until yesterday when a guy at the hall got a new one and was extatic (sp) over it and said hit with it you will be amazed. I wasnt but didnt want to hurt feelings told him it hit good. I said a cue hit bad before and the guy got a little mad at me and started causing a scene yes I learned my lesson keep your opinons to yourself even if the person says be honest!!!

Anyways if I was you I would go with a custom definatley. Since you dont know what you like yet just go to 2 different cue makers and get a sneaky done. You could get a sneaky done for about $200 and since your budget is $500 you can add a little to each. This way you can get 2 cues instead of just one! Just make sure they arent bar cue butts but they are actually spliced butts.
 
32-n-d said:
but as of now, I have no specific prefrence other than cue weight.
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Then you might be better off with a Schon. At least if you don't like the weight you can change out the weight bolt a thousand times to get it exactly where you want it. With almost all customs, if the cuemaker misses his mark, which they've been known to do, you can only change the weight by changing the shaft to something heavier or lighter, and that's a much smaller range and affects feel and balance more.
 
I guess I have no life too...played pool from 9:00pm - midnight, ate, straight to AZBilliards (and numerous cue websites).

I know exactly what you mean (about too much action with Meucci's). As I started to learn how to really "stroke" I was getting all kinds of action on the CB. I guess a lot of the players that don't like Meucci's have the luxury to play on well maintained, fast, tables. I play the majority of my practice time on VERY slow tables (for free though). I also get to play for free on really nice Brunswick Gold Crowns and Olhausen tables (tables are no more than two years old, and just got re-clothed with Simonis (sp?)a couple weeks ago), but these tables are at the game room at the university I go to...and I hardly attend lecture enough to be able to hang around the campus.

Well, I've e-mailed Jerry Eick at Blackheart cues a few times but am still awaiting a price and wait estimate. I've contacted Viattorre, but they never responded.

I pretty much just want a sneaky pete (ebony on birds eye maple). I can't decide if I want the joint and ferrule made out of ivory though. Or should I just stick to what they normally use on their cues? I don't want this to turn into a "pro/con ivory thread"...but does real ivory make that much of a difference in the hit?

BTW, thank to both of you again for replying. Are both of you in Virginia? (usernames)
 
32-n-d said:
I guess I have no life too...played pool from 9:00pm - midnight, ate, straight to AZBilliards (and numerous cue websites).

I know exactly what you mean (about too much action with Meucci's). As I started to learn how to really "stroke" I was getting all kinds of action on the CB. I guess a lot of the players that don't like Meucci's have the luxury to play on well maintained, fast, tables. I play the majority of my practice time on VERY slow tables (for free though). I also get to play for free on really nice Brunswick Gold Crowns and Olhausen tables (tables are no more than two years old, and just got re-clothed with Simonis (sp?)a couple weeks ago), but these tables are at the game room at the university I go to...and I hardly attend lecture enough to be able to hang around the campus.

Well, I've e-mailed Jerry Eick at Blackheart cues a few times but am still awaiting a price and wait estimate. I've contacted Viattorre, but they never responded.

I pretty much just want a sneaky pete (ebony on birds eye maple). I can't decide if I want the joint and ferrule made out of ivory though. Or should I just stick to what they normally use on their cues? I don't want this to turn into a "pro/con ivory thread"...but does real ivory make that much of a difference in the hit?

BTW, thank to both of you again for replying. Are both of you in Virginia? (usernames)
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once you get your stroke right, it won't matter what kind of cloth you're playing on. i actually prefer slower cloth, as it lets me hit the balls with more authority.

as far as ivory, i won't use anything but ivory ferrules, i love the way they hit. i do have a mcdermott I shaft on order, it doesn't come with ivory, i'll try it, and maybe have it modified. i use a stainless steel joint, i've used wood to wood, and they both hit very well IMO.

the ivory joint will noticably soften the overall hit of the cue.

VAP(from virginia)
 
Thanks too drivermaker...you must have posted while I was typing.

As for your reply about the Schon...if I do get one, it will probably be a very basic cue-and I'll be able to "fiddle" with the variations while I hone in on my cue preferences.
 
No ivory just makes it look nice now if you get an ivory ferrule then yes they give IMO a soft hit. Schon has kind of a solid hard hit. I would just get a wood to wood joint 3/8-10 with ivory ferrule in one and the other try a different joint maybe a 5/16-14 or 18 piloted joint with maybe an aegis 2 or other type ferrule just try them out depending on who you get them from if you dont like them I would buy one from you!!! LOL!! Dont expect to get a reply from black boar he isnt making cues for the public for another 2 or 3 years he has an exclusive deal with lucky. This info was in another thread just dont know where, didnt feel like looking it up! Yeah we are both in Va I am near dc and I think VAP is in richmond.
 
See I dont think the ivory joint makes a different IMO. I do say the ferrule cause I have an espirtu sneaky pete and I didnt like the hit of that when I first got it so I put an ivory ferrule on it and IMO it significantly soften the hit. The joint is a 5/16-14 piloted joint. But to each is own I guess I currently play with a cue that doesnt have a ferrule and man that thing hits solid!!! probably end up cracking the wood if I keep breaking with it but I like the way the thing hits!!
 
My problem is, I like the look and feel of wood joints, but I want the balance of a heavier joint. I have a cheap sneaky pete butt that my 314 fits and I really like how it feels more like hitting with a solid one piece cue...but without added weight that a stainless joint gives to the front (like my Viking which I originally bought the shaft for), stroking it feels awkward.

If I get a custom, I'm definitely sold on an ivory ferrule, but what about an ivory joint? Is an ivory joint comparable to a wood joint hit...but with the added weight towards the front? If so...ivory it is. Please don't tell me an ivory butt cap helps too...thats another $100 into the cue!
 
lukeinva said:
See I dont think the ivory joint makes a different IMO.
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Sure it does....there's a hell of a difference between the hit/feel of an ivory joint compared to stainless as well as affecting the balance and weight of the cue. In his case, he's going to be exceeding his $500 budget real quick with his champagne tastes though.
 
Well, I just picked up a Schon LTD 315 and overall I like it pretty well. Today I am taking it to the local cue man and have him cut down the tip/ferrule/shaft a tad. So it will be less than 13mm. And lo and behold I do find that I get more deflection with this cue then I was used to with my other one with the 314 on it. So I have to retrain myself on how to shoot with inside english. Now where did I put Joe Tucker's book?

And I am also going to have him build me a custom cue to my specs. Since he is new I will get it for $200 to $250. No ivory or fancy scroll work but he does put out a nice cue.

Jake
 
32-n-d said:
My problem is, I like the look and feel of wood joints, but I want the balance of a heavier joint. I have a cheap sneaky pete butt that my 314 fits and I really like how it feels more like hitting with a solid one piece cue...but without added weight that a stainless joint gives to the front (like my Viking which I originally bought the shaft for), stroking it feels awkward.

If I get a custom, I'm definitely sold on an ivory ferrule, but what about an ivory joint? Is an ivory joint comparable to a wood joint hit...but with the added weight towards the front? If so...ivory it is. Please don't tell me an ivory butt cap helps too...thats another $100 into the cue!
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If you want weight towards the front of the cue get a stainless steel joint!! No you dont need an ivory butt cap!!
 
lukeinva...is your sneaky for sale?

Also, how are the players in Virginia. I lived there during the summer almost 10 years ago with my dad while he was stationed in Newport News Naval Base. I stayed around Virginia Beach with some relatives during that time also...pretty nice place (Virginia Beach...not Newport News).
 
drivermaker said:
Sure it does....there's a hell of a difference between the hit/feel of an ivory joint compared to stainless as well as affecting the balance and weight of the cue. In his case, he's going to be exceeding his $500 budget real quick with his champagne tastes though.
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Yes your right about the ivory. I dont like the SS joint never have just to shiny for my taste!! I usually play with a wood2wood joint what the hell do I know!! yeah if you keep talking about ivory this and that you going to be getting a $1000 sneaky pete!! LOL
 
32-n-d said:
lukeinva...is your sneaky for sale?

Also, how are the players in Virginia. I lived there during the summer almost 10 years ago with my dad while he was stationed in Newport News Naval Base. I stayed around Virginia Beach with some relatives during that time also...pretty nice place (Virginia Beach...not Newport News).
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No my sneaky isnt for sale!! though i can probably get you another espiritu sneaky if you want. What I was told is Russ doesnt make them unless he knows you and this pro that lives around me is very very good friends with russ. Russ sponsors him and he only made like 20 sneakys. Again this is what the pro told me. So they may be valuble I dont know. IS THERE ANYONE ELSE OUT THERE THAT HAS A RUSS ESPIRITU SNEAKY PETE??? But I will ask my friend if he wants to sell his I will let you know! Yeah I am way way north of VA beach! Players in Va are jam good I mean they are the best in the country NO ONE CAN BEAT US!! NO ONE DAMN IT!! Unless of course they are better but other than that no one can beat us!! :D
 
Thanks for the replys...

Jake-I (and I'm sure many others) would like to hear your review on the Schon and the custom-maybe a comparison? I think side-by-side comparisons are most helpful since reviews are mainly the same old things about likes and dislikes, but its hard to tell to what extent.

I too fell for the "deflection" trap...although the shafts do deflect less than the better shafts I've hit with (older and newer Joss and Schon). I think the drawbacks about deflection are blown way out of proportion, and I found that I'd gladly take back a little bit of deflection in return for a more solid hit. I guess the main advantage of a Predator shaft is its radial consistency. But then again...how much fluxuation can a shaft possibly have?
 
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