Snookers Providence RI - 9-Ball - $5000.00 Guaranteed First Place

[Snooker's RI]

All tournament info has been has been sent in to AZ may be a day or so for the post - Thanks for all the support - As soon as the tournament ended Steve said "Let's get working on the next one"

Some thought has been made about an adjusted format let me throw it out there for comment:

Since the final day saw 9 A's, 6 B's and 1 C with a B winning it tells me that the one game spot for the A's and B's is close - To change the race I was thinking A's to 9, B's to 8 and C's to 6

Change the game to 10 ball but a lower ranked player breaks 9 ball and the 10 ball spots after the break - The higher ranked player has to break 10 ball - Break from anywhere behind the head string

To get rid of the racking issues do rack your own 10/9 doesn't count

 

[10zIn]

Ray will probably post all the results but I do know that:
Steve Roy took 1st
Mhet Vergara took 2nd
3rd/4th was Ivo and Billy the Kid
5th/6th Brett Boemels(sp) / Randy Labonte

The handicap was tough was but it was a great tournament.
My hat is off to Ray Mac for a great job of running the show.

think ur 5th/6th spot is wrong. but will c it on AZ soon.

 

[AtLarge]

deleted to change format..................see next post

 

[AtLarge]

Since the final day saw 9 A's, 6 B's and 1 C with a B winning it tells me that the one game spot for the A's and B's is close

That's useful information, but the answers to the following questions should also help in evaluating whether the handicaps were appropriate:

- How many matches involved an A vs. a B, and how many of those were won by the A?
- How many matches involved an A vs. a C, and how many of those were won by the A?
- How many matches involved a B vs. a C, and how many of those were won by the B?
​

In evaluating whether the handicaps were appropriate or "right," you also need to identify the purpose or objective of the handicaps. Was it to equalize everything and make most matches highly competitive if the two players both played at their normal levels? If so, you'd expect to see a pretty even split in the A vs. B, A vs. C, and B vs. C matches and a pretty equal number of A's, B's, and C's in the final 16 (which did not happen). Or was the objective to just give the lower-ranked player a slightly better chance of winning, such that he was apt to win only if he played above his normal level and the higher-ranked player played below his normal level?

To change the race I was thinking A's to 9, B's to 8 and C's to 6

This would make it easier for A's when playing B's and harder for both A's and B's when playing C's. I think you need the answers to the questions listed above to know whether this is too much of a change, too little, or just right. But if the tournament switches to 10-ball, the matches will take considerably longer on average, and lengthening the races may not be feasible.

Change the game to 10 ball but a lower ranked player breaks 9 ball and the 10 ball spots after the break - The higher ranked player has to break 10 ball

Changing to 10-ball is good (but favors the A's more.). Whether the lower-ranked player needs the breaking advantage of breaking 9 balls instead of 10 balls depends, again, on the answers to the questions above. And since the lower-ranked player could no longer win the game on the break, the higher-ranked player should not be able to, either. (This is taken care of with your last item below.)

Break from anywhere behind the head string

Fine.

To get rid of the racking issues do rack your own 10/9 doesn't count

Excellent.

 

[Koop]

think ur 5th/6th spot is wrong. but will c it on AZ soon.

Probably, that was off memory and a decent amount of beer :grin:

 

[Koop]

All tournament info has been has been sent in to AZ may be a day or so for the post - Thanks for all the support - As soon as the tournament ended Steve said "Let's get working on the next one"

Some thought has been made about an adjusted format let me throw it out there for comment:

Since the final day saw 9 A's, 6 B's and 1 C with a B winning it tells me that the one game spot for the A's and B's is close - To change the race I was thinking A's to 9, B's to 8 and C's to 6

Change the game to 10 ball but a lower ranked player breaks 9 ball and the 10 ball spots after the break - The higher ranked player has to break 10 ball - Break from anywhere behind the head string

To get rid of the racking issues do rack your own 10/9 doesn't count

Hi Ray,

You and I had this conversation and this is not meant to sound whiny...BUT ... at least 3 of those B players should be playing as A's.

That said, I think 9, 7, 5 would be fair but ultimately it's your call.
Again, great job.

Koop

 

[Snooker's RI]

I will review the entire tournament to see how each class matched up

Yes, some players playing as B's could have been A's but as with all levels you will have different ends of the spectrum – Take a list of 100 players and ranked them in order - Now to create 3 classes you need to draw two lines – No matter where you draw those lines the players just above the lines will say “I play just as well as so and so, why am I in the higher level” – Players in the bottom of each class will question why the top players in that class are not in a higher level


My feelings about handicaps

Handicaps are needed to draw 64 players to a tournament but is that good for pool? I played in maybe 10 handicap tournaments last year. My best finish was 3rd and cashed 1 other time. My rank was set as an Open player. I had to do what I did when I began my pool career 30 years ago, start practicing. So as a top ranked player I had to start practicing to beat B’s and C’s. Years ago the lower ranked players had to practice to compete against the higher but that is now reversed. There needs to be an incentive to get better or the level of play will just get worse. Look at it this way if you don’t play and your game drops a level what will happen? The way things are going you will just get more weight. There are players that do try to get better and love the game but seem to stay at a certain level so I’m not says this for everyone but you guys are a small percentage of the total pool population. Example, we just had a $5000.00 first place tournament with a $20.00 entry for a chance to get in and you only had to compete against your own class for that entry. All you had to do was finish in the top 25% to win $100.00. We averaged 29 players per qualifier (8 A’s, 15 B’s and 6 C’s) and some players came back a few times. The A’s I understand because that player class is so small now and will get smaller. The B’s can compete but only the “Pool Lovers” came to play. The C’s just won’t play without a big spot but like some B’s a few of the “Pool Lovers” came to play.

In 1987 I played in the BC Open, I was a B at the time. Total expenses were about $800.00. I beat Steve Mizerak to make it into the cash for $300.00. No New England B player will ever accomplish something like that again, do you know why?

 

[Koop]

Point taken Ray, well said.

 

[Dave in Boston]

Ray I agree BUT.....

There is a major differance between now and thirty years ago. First of all the cost of living is incredible higher now, so people have to work mutliple jobs or what ever to survive so that practice time is limited.

Second of all 30 years ago there were places to play everywhere and the cost to play was significantly cheaper.

But I do agree for 20 bucks this tournament was amazing, told you this in person and will tell you agian. Great job.

I hear a lot from the higher players on this subject and they all say the same as you. And to a point I agree with you but not everyone can have the time, money or even talent to become an "A" player so are those individuals supposed to be punished? Are they to give up pool totally and not support it? If This is true then you might as well close the pool halls and stop the tours now because only 1 out of 20 is going to be able to compete.

 

[Snooker's RI]

OK, now the solution

No more handicap tournaments, only player class tournaments. The incentive to get better will be in what I call a “Kick Up” program to make prize money increase in the higher levels. This program will need a restructuring of the whole tournament process and an alliance between tours at all levels. Without getting into all the details the way it works is $1.00 per player is kicked up to each class above (Player classes: Pros; Open; A; B; and C). So the Pros Fund will receive $1.00 per player from every tournament held in the entire country. Open thru B Fund will receive $1.00 per player from each tournament below them for each region. Many more detail about the program need to be worked out but that is a quick explanation how it will work.

Now “C” players can play in their tournaments but the prize money will be cut because $4.00 per player is removed for each one of the classes above them. Want the higher prize money? Get better and move to the next class.

 

[Snooker's RI]

This post should be moved to the main forum to get more people involved

 

[Snooker's RI]

Continued on the Main Forum titled

Restructuring Pool on a National Level

 

[ragu]

i agree with dave , not with all the practive in the world is going to help a huge majority of players become "a" players , most players have already hit their peak and practice will only make them more consistent, as far as the races making them longer isnt going to make it more competive just give the "a" players more of an edge over "b" players . im sure you understand the event wont survive if you cater to only "a" players. you have to make the lower player think they have a chance to win lol. i agre for $20 its a great chance for some players to play for a "chance at $5000 but a couple of times in some players will get discouraged. maybe getting last place money isnt always enough incentive. im just surprised more "a" players didnt get involved in this . what a chance at $5000 they are passing up

 

[Art Vandelay]

Some ideas:

IMO bieng a "B" player (apa 6) and getting 1 game on the wire is a joke when playing a "A" player. I lost 8-4 when I played an "A".

I played one "B" and won hill-hill

I played one "C" player, and gave up 1 game on the wire. I won 7-1.

there needs to be more ranking levels, as there are huge talent gaps going on here. Sure everyone will want to play, it's only $20. I'll play every time. But for me to win something like this, I'd have to be on fire to beat 2 or 3 "A" players.

The tournment was set up for the A's to roll over everyone, I was shocked that a B won.


why not look into handicaps via. balls vs games.


How about handicapping the entry fee?

or, if we go down the road of everyone has to practice and get better so we can compete with the "A", how about letting pros play? I'd pay $20 for a shot to rack for Archer.

 

[Snooker's RI]

Results from the RR Challenge

When A's played B's - A's won 23 matches B's won 15 matches
When A's played C's - A's won 9 matches C's won 2 matches
When B's played C's - B's won 10 matches C's won 7 matches

The rest of the matches were classes playing each other

 

[Art Vandelay]

In 1987 I played in the BC Open, I was a B at the time. Total expenses were about $800.00. I beat Steve Mizerak to make it into the cash for $300.00. No New England B player will ever accomplish something like that again, do you know why?

I think I know why - didn't Steve Mizerak die a few years back.

 

[Snooker's RI]

Funny - No, it has to do with paying $800 to play the pros compared to paying $20.00 and wanting more weight

 

[Rodney]

Results from the RR Challenge

When A's played B's - A's won 23 matches B's won 15 matches
When A's played C's - A's won 9 matches C's won 2 matches
When B's played C's - B's won 10 matches C's won 7 matches

The rest of the matches were classes playing each other

That looks like pretty good results. The better player should be favored IMO. If you make it a 50/50 result, you'll probably lose a lot of players, maybe more than you lose having the better player favored.

Ray, I didn't introduce myself, or play, but it seems like you ran a really good event.

Remember, you'll never please everyone.

Rodney

 

[Snooker's RI]

Hi Rodney,

Yes, you are correct there - We have a 9 ball tourny on Wed night - $20.00 entry - 6:30 start - we get 40-50 players

 

[Snooker's RI]

Let's say we try for the 50/50 split - How can we do it?