Statement from The Legends of Pocket Billiards

kanzzo

hobby player
"improtant for John to play old time straight pool shots"
this is what he told in his DVDs and the way he played straight pool for the 20 years prior to his world record. He probably would have taken a record of 526+ even playing some unorthodox shots. But he pointed out multiple times, he was very happy he didn't need to.

He did this record first of all for himself. And this was important to him.

But yes, there could be some hindsight bias and it wasn't really the point.


I was just proposing this as a new rule for straight pool high runs:

"Calls out of an untouched rack are not allowed"
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
this is what he told in his DVDs and the way he played straight pool for the 20 years prior to his world record. He probably would have taken a record of 526+ even playing some unorthodox shots. But he pointed out multiple times, he was very happy he didn't need to.

He did this record first of all for himself. And this was important to him.
Uh huh...
But yes, there could be some hindsight bias and it wasn't really the point.
Fair enough, but it doesn't matter what you say to someone while screaming. They're still going to take exception to the volume. ;)
I was just proposing this as a new rule for straight pool high runs:

"Calls out of an untouched rack are not allowed"
I like it... Can't imagine it ever happening though. 14.1 purists don't even want templates used at all. The notion of adapting rules for their use. Despite the intent. Will be a tough sale.
 

kanzzo

hobby player
apologies but this post screams bias....

"improtant for John to play old time straight pool shots" vs "Jason shouldn't be proud of his play"

Before you go off the deep end, I'm clearly using your comments on a wide sweeping brush, and the words in the quotes above aren't verbatim. ...but I'm still using your words.

I can't even continue replying as this is such fabricated crap on John's end that my head is spinning as I'm even just typing this. The notion that John would not have done anything to get that 527th ball is ridiculous. Regardless if it were a dead ball, bank, carom, 'new timey'..., etc.


This is where I got my comment from.

0:50 "I feel sick shooting the bank because I feel the run almost doesn't count"


"in the case I run 500 here I don't wanna hear "yeah, but he banked one""
 

kanzzo

hobby player
"Jason shouldn't be proud of his play"
And I didn't say anything about Jayson, he was warming up and getting a feel for the table and was kinda banging around. It was the first session at the table.

Bobby was so impressed with this shot that he stepped into the camera and said to the viewers "How you liked that?" (1:23)

So just answering his question. I absolutely didn't like that. It's incredibly easy to do on Perma-Rack and I feel the run doesn't count. (It was a run of something like 56 balls and not his world record run. But I think a rule to prevent this in the world record run is still needed.)
 
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Cameron Smith

is kind of hungry...
Silver Member
This is where I got my comment from.

0:50 "I feel sick shooting the bank because I feel the run almost doesn't count"


"in the case I run 500 here I don't wanna hear "yeah, but he banked one""
John is just talking here, I wouldn’t take what he is saying too seriously. He’s just trying to emphasize how much he values playing classic straight pool.

If he was on 518, and had no break shot I can almost guarantee he would try to call a ball out of the rack and he would do a three rail combo carom bank if he was on 525.
 

kanzzo

hobby player
John is just talking here, I wouldn’t take what he is saying too seriously. He’s just trying to emphasize how much he values playing classic straight pool.

If he was on 518, and had no break shot I can almost guarantee he would try to call a ball out of the rack and he would do a three rail combo carom bank if he was on 525.
and this is why we need rules beforehand. To know which balls count and which don't. So we don't have to rely on the judgement of a player being close to his goal, he had for the last 20 years.

The corner ball was never the issue racking the balls with the triangle, there are always small gaps between some spots and this makes this shot a big gamble. And racking with a triangle you never get two racks exactly the same.

Straight pool is about key balls and position on break ball and controlled break shot with CB getting in middle of the table. Not learning 4-5 ways to call a ball from the undisturbed rack and being able to always continue your run no matter where you end up at the end of the rack.
 

Shuddy

Diamond Dave’s babysitter
Silver Member
This is where I got my comment from.

0:50 "I feel sick shooting the bank because I feel the run almost doesn't count"


"in the case I run 500 here I don't wanna hear "yeah, but he banked one""
Is it easy?

I use a magic rack when I play straight pool. I’ve sometimes attempted a shot I first saw Souquet play: firing into one of the two head balls and banking the other head ball into the opposite side pocket. I think I’ve made that shot twice out of 20-30 times. There are several shots like this, all of them very difficult to pull off. Well, not difficult, just random.

EDIT: Sorry, that wasn’t the post the I was supposed to reply to 😂 Was supposed to reply to an earlier post of yours.
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
and this is why we need rules beforehand.
We already have rules in place. You just don't happen to like the ability for players to shoot dead balls from a solid rack. I happen to think the triangle outline is a farse. Lets be objective here. If the rack was done correctly, then a dead ball is just as playable from a triangle rack vs a template rack.
So we don't have to rely on the judgement of a player being close to his goal, he had for the last 20 years.
When did players get the opprotunity to make the rules on the fly...? Is there some version of 14.1 where this is allowed..? I'd be crazy good at that game.
The corner ball was never the issue racking the balls with the triangle, there are always small gaps between some spots and this makes this shot a big gamble. And racking with a triangle you never get two racks exactly the same.
A flaw of the triangle, not a benefit. Of course I guess depends if you think you should have a solid rack to break into to begin with. Someone else in another part of the forum hates templates as well. Something about templates taking away some level of purity from the game. I asked if they'd be annoyed if they're opponent slug racked them. Seeing as gaps between racked balls seems to have some level of purity. Didn't get a direct answer to that question.
Straight pool is about key balls and position on break ball and controlled break shot with CB getting in middle of the table. Not learning 4-5 ways to call a ball from the undisturbed rack and being able to always continue your run no matter where you end up at the end of the rack.
No straight pool is about putting more balls into pockets then your opponet. Everything else is subjective opinion.
 

gerryf

Well-known member
calling a ball from the unbroken rack has a long history.

In November, on Friday the thirteenth, I ran 365 while playing Nixon Jones in Wilmington, North Carolina. I knew Nixon fairly well. He was the owner of the establishment, and I had played there quite often when I was in that part of the country. What was most interesting about that game was that I made the run off my own break. I called the one ball, at the front of the triangle, in the left side pocket. It’s a shot that can be made maybe one time in three, but you can never take a chance on it in a tournament. What you do is hit the cue ball high and drive it into the right side of the one ball. If you hit the cue ball in the center, it will force the object ball forward; if you hit it high, with force-follow, the one will carom and bounce back toward the left side. On this occasion, the ball dropped in the pocket and I went on from there, without missing, for more than an hour and a half.

Cohen, Stanley; Mosconi, Willie. Willie's Game: An Autobiography . Open Road Media. Kindle Edition.
 

Shuddy

Diamond Dave’s babysitter
Silver Member
This is where I got my comment from.

0:50 "I feel sick shooting the bank because I feel the run almost doesn't count"


"in the case I run 500 here I don't wanna hear "yeah, but he banked one""

John Schmidt: Even though the tables are tight with those 4.5” pockets.

😂 😂 😆
 

kanzzo

hobby player
We already have rules in place. You just don't happen to like the ability for players to shoot dead balls from a solid rack. I happen to think the triangle outline is a farse. Lets be objective here. If the rack was done correctly, then a dead ball is just as playable from a triangle rack vs a template rack.
I think I am best at shooting dead balls from a solid rack at my level of play. I alway call front ball in straight pool if I loose the lag. I had multiple runs continued if I didn't get position on the break ball.

It's a science to read a rack and take gaps into account. It takes away this knowledge from the player, if the rack is same every time.

And it took me a little to understand, how the discussion got this turn arguing about Schmidt.
It's probably wishful thinking for it to be employed by anyone looking to set some level of record when it is not a requirement otherwise.
This sentence got me to mention Schmidt. He was looking to set a record and I remembered from interviews and DVDs that it was important for him. So just an example to prove your point wrong.
 

kanzzo

hobby player
calling a ball from the unbroken rack has a long history.

In November, on Friday the thirteenth, I ran 365 while playing Nixon Jones in Wilmington, North Carolina. I knew Nixon fairly well. He was the owner of the establishment, and I had played there quite often when I was in that part of the country. What was most interesting about that game was that I made the run off my own break. I called the one ball, at the front of the triangle, in the left side pocket. It’s a shot that can be made maybe one time in three, but you can never take a chance on it in a tournament. What you do is hit the cue ball high and drive it into the right side of the one ball. If you hit the cue ball in the center, it will force the object ball forward; if you hit it high, with force-follow, the one will carom and bounce back toward the left side. On this occasion, the ball dropped in the pocket and I went on from there, without missing, for more than an hour and a half.

Cohen, Stanley; Mosconi, Willie. Willie's Game: An Autobiography . Open Road Media. Kindle Edition.

it's one time in three on triangle rack, its 9 out of 10 on Perma Rack
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Most straight pool players know two or three shots off a 15 or 14 ball rack — they’re not dead but will sometimes go.

Lou Figueroa
 

kanzzo

hobby player
When did players get the opprotunity to make the rules on the fly...? Is there some version of 14.1 where this is allowed..? I'd be crazy good at that game.

No rules on the fly. Where did you get this from? With every run between 2006 and 2019 Schmidt was hoping to run 500+. In every run he would hate it to shoot a bank. Because he would hate to get this accomplishment and hear someone say "Yeah, but you banked once".

In 9 Ball players with the best break won the tournaments. (Strickland, Bustamante, Archer). Then Magic rack was introduced and Immonen and Deuel and Alcano started to run out sets with a soft break. The rule was changed, because they felt it's not in the spirit of 9 ball to break with 4 mph and run out tournaments.
 

kanzzo

hobby player
Most straight pool players know two or three shots off a 15 or 14 ball rack — they’re not dead but will sometimes go.

Lou Figueroa


this are the typical balls. The are very high percentage on a perfect rack. (It's a triangle rack in the video. Was recorded on first try with no editing.)
 

kanzzo

hobby player
Is it easy?

I use a magic rack when I play straight pool. I’ve sometimes attempted a shot I first saw Souquet play: firing into one of the two head balls and banking the other head ball into the opposite side pocket. I think I’ve made that shot twice out of 20-30 times. There are several shots like this, all of them very difficult to pull off. Well, not difficult, just random.

EDIT: Sorry, that wasn’t the post the I was supposed to reply to 😂 Was supposed to reply to an earlier post of yours.
guess you will find the above video helpful
 

kanzzo

hobby player
Lets be objective here. If the rack was done correctly, then a dead ball is just as playable from a triangle rack vs a template rack.
The referee would put in some randomness being unable to rack the ball exactly the same every time.

You have to rack the balls randomly in 9-Ball and 10-Ball. Taking away the random factor in these games seems like an improvement on first sight but is actually bad for the game. So embrace some imperfection ^___^
 
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