strategy for the lag?

PKM

OB-1 Kenobi
Silver Member
I was reading Phil Capelle and he says that lagging first could be an advantage, presumably because your opponent is then rushed to lag immediately after. I think I read someone else who claims the opposite, probably having in mind that the second player can gauge the speed in that brief delay before lagging.

I'm thinking specifically of a league match rather than a major tournament, so you might have a little more leeway in timing, which might suggest going second is better. What do you think?

Then again, in APA 8-ball and at my rudimentary skill level, the breaks aren't even much of an advantage, but I was just wondering.
 

matt9ball

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
i always go second...like you stated so i can gauge the speed...the delay should be more than enough to get a feel for the speed
 

shag_fu

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Generally a lag is done at the same time so 1 player does not have an advantage. In the league I play in that lags, the home team always lags 1st. And most players will lag in the middle of the table. This makes it more difficult for the 2nd player as most bar tables have some roll 1 way or the other. If I do lag, I try to lag with numbered balls if availalbe to give both players equal footing and lag at the same time. If you watch accu-stats, the players lag with the numbered balls as well and at the same time.
 

cplayermagic

Hustler
Silver Member
shag_fu said:
Generally a lag is done at the same time so 1 player does not have an advantage. In the league I play in that lags, the home team always lags 1st. And most players will lag in the middle of the table. This makes it more difficult for the 2nd player as most bar tables have some roll 1 way or the other. If I do lag, I try to lag with numbered balls if availalbe to give both players equal footing and lag at the same time. If you watch accu-stats, the players lag with the numbered balls as well and at the same time.

True. The tactic I use is slightly different. I let my opponent lag first while I turn my back so I can't gauge his speed. Then, I request the same courtesy. Most of the time my opponent agrees and turns his back. Then I put my cueball as close to the rail as I can with my hand. Sometimes I don't beat my opponent so I offer him best 2/3 and/or $20 if the match is worth a lot to me. I guess I just believe in taking this game a little more seriously than the rest of these jokers..
 

memikey

Never Has Been
Silver Member
In Uk and in Middle East and in most of Europe and Asia you each take one side of the table and both lag at the same time or as close to the same time as is reasonably possible (ie a momentary pause from one of the players is acceptable).
 

MrLucky

Pool Fanatic!!
Silver Member
That's funny...

cplayermagic said:
True. The tactic I use is slightly different. I let my opponent lag first while I turn my back so I can't gauge his speed. Then, I request the same courtesy. Most of the time my opponent agrees and turns his back. Then I put my cueball as close to the rail as I can with my hand. :eek: Sometimes I don't beat my opponent so I offer him best 2/3 and/or $20 if the match is worth a lot to me. I guess I just believe in taking this game a little more seriously than the rest of these jokers..

Where are these idiots? :confused:
 

excessknowledge

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
PKM said:
I was reading Phil Capelle and he says that lagging first could be an advantage, presumably because your opponent is then rushed to lag immediately after. I think I read someone else who claims the opposite, probably having in mind that the second player can gauge the speed in that brief delay before lagging.

I'm thinking specifically of a league match rather than a major tournament, so you might have a little more leeway in timing, which might suggest going second is better. What do you think?

Then again, in APA 8-ball and at my rudimentary skill level, the breaks aren't even much of an advantage, but I was just wondering.


I do not think it matters and practice makes perfect
 

randyg

www.randygpool.com
Silver Member
One of the "Golden Rules" of pool is:

Believe everything you read.....randyg
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
the lag is interesting

I have watched televised matches where the first player's ball had already hit the end rail and was over halfway back down the table before the other player hit their ball. Various other delays but the idea of simultaneous lags is obviously open to wide discretion.

I watched Corey and Efren lag on a video of the DCC one pocket event and then Corey carefully wipe both balls on his shirt afterwards. The first break is huge racing to three playing one pocket making this one of those things that make me go hmmmmm . . .

It could easily be argued that the lag and break are the most important shots in a game.

Hu
 

randyg

www.randygpool.com
Silver Member
"Corey carefully wipe both balls on his shirt afterwards."

Anyone know why??????
 

Jude Rosenstock

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
For starters, I seriously doubt there is much to gain by watching the first two or three feet of your opponent's lag. There simply hasn't been enough deceleration to make any accurate assessments. What's more, the footrail is just as big a variable as the speed of the cloth - perhaps even moreso depending on your venue.

With one exception, every lag I've ever participated in showed interest in a same-start beginning. The only time where the opposite was evident happened only a few weeks ago when my opponent, after practicing the lag 3 or 4 times, proceeded to quick-start before I had even gotten into my stance. I didn't even bother to get down to shoot. I just turned and looked at him like he was insane and we started again.

In my opinion, the lag is supposed to be a democratic process. It's not meant to be a mind-game. The goal is to send the cue-ball to the opposite end of the table and back, hoping to freeze it to the head-rail. You do that and it doesn't matter what your opponent does. The end result of my bizarre lag from a few weeks ago - After producing a near perfect lag in his quick-start, I proceeded to freeze mine to the head-rail. I can't remember how his "second" lag was but I do recall it wasn't quite as good.
 

PoolSponge

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
As to why Corey wipes both balls, I am assuming that you are not lagging with two cue balls, in that case you do not want chalk on the object balls.

As far as the lag, they are starting to use the rule that the second player to hit the CB must do so before the first CB has hit the end rail. I believe this is definitely more fair as that neither player should have the advantage of seeing what the other player has done. My focus on the lag is never on what the opponent is doing, rather, I focus on my shot and keep my mind in the feel of the shot. One way or another you need a good lag to win, focus on that.
 

gpeezy

for sale!
Skid

randyg said:
"Corey carefully wipe both balls on his shirt afterwards."

Anyone know why??????
He's is cleaning them to prevent a skid later in the match.He also keeps the cue ball pretty clean.I bet his shirts look like hell after a long session.
 

Andrew Manning

Aspiring know-it-all
Silver Member
PoolSponge said:
My focus on the lag is never on what the opponent is doing, rather, I focus on my shot and keep my mind in the feel of the shot. One way or another you need a good lag to win, focus on that.

Exactly right, I think. You gain far more through undivided concentration on your own stroke than you possibly could watching someone else's ball roll and then trying to adjust your own shot on a second's notice.

Also, hopefully you've been allowed to hit a few shots to get a feel for the speed of the cloth and the rails already, so you don't have to jump into the first rack totally unaware of how the table's playing. That should make any visual observation of speed from the other guy's shot pretty much irrelevant anyway.

-Andrew
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
only guesses

randyg said:
"Corey carefully wipe both balls on his shirt afterwards."

Anyone know why??????

Randy,

The reason could be totally innocent, just making sure that the balls hadn't picked up any trash or lint off the table to affect the break. On the other hand there could have been moisture or another foreign substance on one or both balls. With all the past examples of Corey's gamesmanship I found the action curious. One question I have is was the entire set of balls clean at the start of this game or had they been played with since cleaning? It would seem very interesting to carefully wipe down two balls if the rest were dirty. Not something truly damning, just something I found a bit odd.

I just reviewed that part of the video. Corey lost the lag and then walked down to the break area to wipe the balls off before Efren racked for himself. It could have been to clean the chalk off of the balls as someone else mentioned. It just caught my attention that he first nudged his ball down table a couple of times with the side of his stick and then followed it down table and cleaned it and then cleaned the one Efren had lagged with.

I watch these videos for pleasure but also to learn. Whenever there is something a little different I try to understand it. Does Corey always or often clean the balls after the lag? I don't know. It isn't another Watergate, just something to make me wonder.

Hu
 
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