Streaming Players & Problems

[Fast Lenny]

I make sure to get paid for my streaming service as these events want the promotion of it with people watching online as do the event sponsors. They also want it put online and captured so its saved for the future. Players need to appreciate the added money for the event because it would be less added money if you don't have the live streaming as some sponsors would not be interested.

Its like asking the production crew who broadcast a sporting event to give the players a cut of the crews revenue. The event pays the players just like the added monies that come from the sponsors/host room pay the players. If the event wants me to come in as a videographer/streamer to provide them a service so they can get more added money/sponsors then players are barking up the wrong tree when the stream is free for viewers. I have had a few who hate the streaming and think the internet is hurting them but others have appreciated it and are happy friends and family can tune in along with getting the sponsors they have some air time along with themselves.

 

[(((Satori)))]

........................................

 

[cueenvy]

That was, I believe, one of Winters' points. He feels he is losing his anonymity by playing on a stream.

Gideon

What's that's worth?

He's getting a little old to think pool is gonna work out for him.

 

[Fast Lenny]

Shane posted this so I guess its not free streamers he is after but PPV guys but the added monies during the events that are PPV need to be recouped somehow and the stream does that. Events, promoters and room owners allow streamers to do this so they can get money back they put in.

It seems some players think people should organize events, do all that work, and put money up front for nothing. It doesn't work like that, some players should try and step into the role of a promoter. Cant hate on guys who have done it and become successful because they put the money behind it and organized it, they took the risk. Players should thank the promoters who get the added monies and not bash them for making a buck on an investment.

 

[crww]

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[rackemup20]

Who is Shane Winters to think he should get a cut of PPV. Is he even relevant in the pool world. When has he ever done anything of significance on a 9' table. To me players like sky, Bergman, Dechaine, SVB, and the caliber of those guys should be getting the stream money not some short stop. I don't think people would care if Shane winters doesn't show up for a tourney. One less punk to worry about

 

[Gary G]

Rome wasn't built in a day

I'm not sure if I have a place in this thread but I
volunteer w Xtreme pool challenge streaming and
I personally want to thank Lenny for what he does
because I've experienced the work and time it
takes to set up and tear down for a tournament .
There's the day before (approx 8 hrs) then after
the tourn. when everyone has left an no help (approx 4 hrs) at whatever time in the early morning then the
travel time back home . This is a thankless job that
most of the time is done as a labor of love for the game. I hope more people appreciate the FREE streaming that is given to them and help support
those who work very hard to make it possible. I
truly believe that with more streaming will bring
more sponsors/advertising money . I think the
thing to remember here is ROME WAS NOT BUILT
IN ONE DAY , it will take time but it will catch on
and be the future to out more money into tournaments.
I look forward to see everyone at the expo next week.
Again thank you Lenny and everyone else that's working
hard to make this work. :thumbup: Gary G

 

[book collector]

I would think it would be obvious to most people that put more than 30 seconds of thought into this, that if there was a lot of money to be made streaming tournaments , there would be 1000 streamers.
Some of them with huge production companies.
I think counting Accustats there are 5 .
All of them that I have met are pool fans first and foremost and are spending all their time and energy and a lot of their own money for next to nothing , hoping that one day it will be a lucrative business.
I try to support these guys whenever I can, because I like to watch the free matches on You Tube and because in my own way , I want pool to be mainstream just like they do , but I can't go out and help any other way , so I spend a little money once in a while with them, so they can stay out there.
If you enjoy Lennys and the others videos, buy something from them , or send them something to help, if enough people care, it can make a huge difference.

 

[clydeNbonnie]

All I want to know is who Shane Winters is voting for Hillary or Bernie?

 

[Strictly]

All I want to know is do I really have to wait until November for people to stop exercising their "wit" through politics

 

[JCIN]

I love how some people think added money is owed them or just falls from the sky. Let the paradigm shift to no added money and the players only play for the money they draw on the gate and ppv.

The whining would be amazing.

 

[j_zippel]

I love how some people think added money is owed them or just falls from the sky. Let the paradigm shift to no added money and the players only play for the money they draw on the gate and ppv.



The whining would be amazing.

Whoop. There it is


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[lfigueroa]

Most do not that I know of but I am going to talk to the promoters of events I do which are a few to have players sign a rules/waiver form when they do their entry so it will stop that issue and cover all involved. If a player doesn't want to get a shot at the added money from sponsors of the event and attention for their own sponsors when they get on the stream then they don't need to play and are not being forced to play.

Part of the entry form for CSI's US One Pocket Open includes a wavier. By signing up a player agrees to be on-camera and allows their image to be used. It also stipulates that if you play on the streaming table you agree to wear a CSI logo patch on your shirt.

I think it's a good thing for both the promoter and the players. And if the promoter can squeeze a few extra bucks out of a stream and/or DVD sales, that's a good thing because it helps support the promoter's good efforts for the event and hopefully for future events. Plus, afterwards, the CSI patch looks cool on your pool cue case

Lou Figueroa

 

[kollegedave]

Lenny made a great original post. I didn't really know how streaming works, and Lenny's post was certainly educational for me.

I agree 100% with you Lenny. The players should be thankful that people give a S*#! such that they are willing to watch a stream.

I do not understand most players today. Probably the only players that make an attempt to create a brand associated with them are European players and SVB.

Where I am, a player could hire a small marketing firm to create a highlight video and take pictures of him and create a packet explaining all the consumers he could influence in a year and how many more he could influence with x amount of sponsorship, and he could do this for a very reasonable price. He could then approach appropriate companies about sponsorships with a professional-ish pitch.

Instead, they complain online like other people owe them something. These guys wear Hustlin' shirts, drive hours to one bar table event after another, but they don't hustle for a sponsor(s). I don't get it.

Who knows, maybe they tried this and it didn't work, but the little contact I have had with pros makes me think they are more interested in action, and less interested in understanding how to market themselves.

Just my 0.02

kollegedave

 

[Worminator]

I love how some people think added money is owed them or just falls from the sky. Let the paradigm shift to no added money and the players only play for the money they draw on the gate and ppv.

The whining would be amazing.

As usual, Justin comes in and hammers it out of the park in 2 sentences.

Question - Does Accustats pay any royalties to players?

 

[Johnnyt]

Did most of the players that want a free piece of the stream now, start asking after the "French Con Job" in NY? Johnnyt

 

[WGDave]

I handle streaming and don't do all the work that Desiree and Oscar do with running events but I can tell you for the hours put in they don't make a fortune and it probably equates to minimum wage. I do know behind the scenes stuff and you have lots of things happening before, during and after an event with countless people involved.

A promoter has to work the deal with host rooms/casino to get some added money, then work deals with sponsors and then satisfy the sponsor with value to keep them. You have to promote on social media and get the word out which is hours of time before the event. You have to setup and are the first one there and last one out the door. You have to deal with complaints from players and you will get cry babies in every tournament.

You have to deal with your travel cost and players looking for perks to come play the event whether its free rooms, entries, food/drink and so on. Depending on the scale like say CSI and Derby you are talking all the vendors you have to deal with, room kickback percentages, tournament director, referees, a crew like BadBoys to set up and tear down who do a great job. You have your media such as photographers and live streaming.

You have lots of money going out and risk so you should have some reward. If I have $20,000 in cost upfront monies and I make a few thousand I deserve it for the risk I took just like the players who risk there money to travel and play. The players don't always win the money and take a loss and sometimes promoters do too.

I know I am leaving much out which others can add to who have done stuff so maybe Mark Griffin, Ozzy, Greg Sullivan, Oscar and Desiree or Jay Helfert can chime in but trust me the good promoters out there and people who run tours earn the little money they might make in proportion to the scale of the work in an event for pros.

The amateur side of it all is what truly makes money and if the pros all stopped playing the recreational guys out there playing leagues and in the poolrooms would just continue on. I would like to see the pros make big dollars but the money just isn't there and with pool it might never be.

My suggestion to some players is to clean up their act and get together so they can put on their own events, control the video content. Random drug testing for stuff other then marijuana and don't dress like slobs. I think if you are a professional then dress the part, it doesn't have to be a suit but a nice collared shirts and pants (not jeans) with shoes would be nice or maybe go the golf look which is a mix of sport and dress.

Well enough rambling out of me for now. Time to get out and play some pool.

Lenny, thanks for taking the time to answer my question. It is really appreciated!

Agree 100% with your thoughts, and with more voices like yourself and others in the billiard world speaking out, it can only get better for all. Stay vocal.

As far as Oscar, Desiree & Ernesto are concerned; they are the best thing to happen to the sport on the west coast one could ever ask for.

 

[one stroke]

Players have always overestimated thier worth and its led to them cutting thier nose of despite thier face on many occasions and its led many people to pull out of the game and take thier money with them,,

1

 

[HawaiianEye]

Who is Shane Winters? Is he a comedian, like Jonathan Winters?

 

[Johnnyt]

I can see two very top action players getting a cut of the stream, but not tournaments. I do think that some of the streams are pricing themselves out. JMO. Johnnyt