stuff to remind my noobies about APA at states

[toddgator]

If you jump, you must use your regular playing cue.......... you cannot switch to your break cue................

Kim

I can't find a reference in the APA handbook to dispute it, but I can say for a fact that I watched a 9ball singles match in Vegas for the black tier (6-9SL's at the time) and one player switched to his break cue to successfully make a jump shot and they allowed him to continue shooting without questioning him.

The guys playing were both ranked among the top 10 APA players nationally (I mean "ranked" in the loosest sense since players aren't actually publicly ranked or seeded going in to the tournament) so needless to say the match was pretty popular and had a large group of people watching including 2 APA ref's donning their official APA "red smocks" and not a single person, officials included, questioned the player who switched to his break cue to execute the jump.

Maybe the players agreed b/w themselves (although I doubt it) beforehand or maybe the officials were so bored from watching a lot of mediocre pool over the course of the week that they didn't think it was worth intervening since the opposing player didn't question it. Either way I can only describe what I witnessed.

 

[CreeDo]

A few nitty ones that got our team:

Playoffs: Everyone only gets one time out. You might be used to your 3 having multiple time outs.
But if you call that second time out during playoffs... foul, BIH.

The last ball was made and my buddy rolled the CB up to the racking area when it was clear
it wasn't going to scratch. Minus ten points.

This one, I need like weeks of training to unlearn - don't reach into the pocket to catch a ball
that looks like it will scratch. Even if you dip it in there for just a second and then remember and
yank your hand back out like it's a hot stove... they may call you on it.
Doesn't matter if it's your own scratch or the opponent's. Minus ten points.

[8b] I'm not sure if this is in the rulebook or not but if you're shooting at the same pocket as before
and just leave the marker there from a previous miss, you're asking for trouble.
Best to physically pick it up and re-mark the pocket.

If you line up shots with your stick, keep it in your hands at all times, don't lay it on the table.
Also don't allow the tip to accidentally mark the cloth with chalk, you can get called for a marking foul.
This is especially easy to do accidentally if pointing at a spot on the rail for a kick/bank.

One I've done outside of playoffs: For god's sake, make sure the coach doesn't accidentally nudge
an object ball and especially the cue ball while gesticulating and explaining the shot

Don't allow the coach to place the cue ball for the other player. I've heard this is a foul,
never saw it called.

Last bit of advice: make EVERYone shoot EVERYthing. You scratch on the 9, make them spot it and shoot it.
You wouldn't believe how many people dog it in these events, especially if they're in it for the first time.
And, certain players get an attitude about this and let it go to their head. Not that we're playing mind games here,
it's just something you should do because there's no downside and a potential upside.

Theoretically, I think if they just grab the rack like they don't have to shoot it, you could call a super nitty
foul and win that rack because grabbing the rack = conceding that game.
I'd have to look that one up, it's not one I'd ever call, but just be aware of the possibility.

 

[wrickyb]

Look in the APA rules for jump shot No special cue such as jump cues oe Break cue. There is no gray area hrer.

The best way to manage the close ball double hit is if frozen you can stroke through but you can not push through into the rail pinching the balls between the cue tip and the rail. So look to see if frozen then the must use an angle right ore left or jack up. But still could be a foul.

Bumped by another player or spectator is addressed. If it is your team mate ball in hand. Other team or spectator put the bals back and if unable to do that rerack and start game over. Also If found to not be accidental it can be loss of game or match.

Also on the moved ball during shot if the cue ball or another moves through where the moved ball was setting this is a foul. Also you can not reset balls moved on a shot until all balls have stopped moving.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

 

[justadub]

A few nitty ones that got our team:

Playoffs: Everyone only gets one time out. You might be used to your 3 having multiple time outs.
But if you call that second time out during playoffs... foul, BIH.

The last ball was made and my buddy rolled the CB up to the racking area when it was clear
it wasn't going to scratch. Minus ten points.

This one, I need like weeks of training to unlearn - don't reach into the pocket to catch a ball
that looks like it will scratch. Even if you dip it in there for just a second and then remember and
yank your hand back out like it's a hot stove... they may call you on it.
Doesn't matter if it's your own scratch or the opponent's. Minus ten points.

[8b] I'm not sure if this is in the rulebook or not but if you're shooting at the same pocket as before
and just leave the marker there from a previous miss, you're asking for trouble.
Best to physically pick it up and re-mark the pocket.

If you line up shots with your stick, keep it in your hands at all times, don't lay it on the table.
Also don't allow the tip to accidentally mark the cloth with chalk, you can get called for a marking foul.
This is especially easy to do accidentally if pointing at a spot on the rail for a kick/bank.

One I've done outside of playoffs: For god's sake, make sure the coach doesn't accidentally nudge
an object ball and especially the cue ball while gesticulating and explaining the shot

Don't allow the coach to place the cue ball for the other player. I've heard this is a foul,
never saw it called.

Last bit of advice: make EVERYone shoot EVERYthing. You scratch on the 9, make them spot it and shoot it.
You wouldn't believe how many people dog it in these events, especially if they're in it for the first time.
And, certain players get an attitude about this and let it go to their head. Not that we're playing mind games here,
it's just something you should do because there's no downside and a potential upside.

Theoretically, I think if they just grab the rack like they don't have to shoot it, you could call a super nitty
foul and win that rack because grabbing the rack = conceding that game.
I'd have to look that one up, it's not one I'd ever call, but just be aware of the possibility.

A lot of that was in my mind, good reminders tho. Some of it baffles me tho....I've never heard of 3's and lower only getting one timeout, and I've played states before.

And I also thought that a coach could place the cue ball for the player who has BIH. More stuff to have clarified.

Thanks

 

[8onthesnap]

The question I always ask and never get an answer, what if I shoot with a jump cue the entire match broken down and all could I use it to jump.with cause technically its my player at that point

 

[ScottK]

If you jump, you must use your regular playing cue.......... you cannot switch to your break cue................

Kim

I can't find a reference in the APA handbook to dispute it, but I can say for a fact that I watched a 9ball singles match in Vegas for the black tier (6-9SL's at the time) and one player switched to his break cue to successfully make a jump shot and they allowed him to continue shooting without questioning him.

The guys playing were both ranked among the top 10 APA players nationally (I mean "ranked" in the loosest sense since players aren't actually publicly ranked or seeded going in to the tournament) so needless to say the match was pretty popular and had a large group of people watching including 2 APA ref's donning their official APA "red smocks" and not a single person, officials included, questioned the player who switched to his break cue to execute the jump.

Maybe the players agreed b/w themselves (although I doubt it) beforehand or maybe the officials were so bored from watching a lot of mediocre pool over the course of the week that they didn't think it was worth intervening since the opposing player didn't question it. Either way I can only describe what I witnessed.

Whammo is incorrect.

If you jump you must use A regular shooting cue. You cannot switch to a cue designed for jumping and/or breaking. However, if your break cue is not a jump/break cue, and is not designed as a break cue, and has a leather tip, it likely falls within the definition of "Regular Shooting Cue" meaning you could switch to it for a jump shot. This may be what you witnessed in Vegas, or the ref there may just have not gotten the ruling correct. I play under two different LOs and they both interpret this rule differently, and they both interpret this rule incorrectly.

The question I always ask and never get an answer, what if I shoot with a jump cue the entire match broken down and all could I use it to jump.with cause technically its my player at that point

It still doesn't comply with the definition of a "Regular Shooting Cue" as defined in the APA rules. Those rules also state a jump shot may be attempted legally if the attempt is made with a "Regular Shooting Cue." As far as I'm aware, there isn't anything in the rules precluding you from playing your entire match with a jump cue, but if you want to play a jump shot you'd have to switch to a "Regular Shooting Cue" to do so legally.


REGULAR SHOOTING CUE: Any standard pool cue designed to shoot the majority of shots in a game of pool.

 

[Celophanewrap]

A few nitty ones that got our team:

Playoffs: Everyone only gets one time out. You might be used to your 3 having multiple time outs.
But if you call that second time out during playoffs... foul, BIH.

The last ball was made and my buddy rolled the CB up to the racking area when it was clear
it wasn't going to scratch. Minus ten points.

This one, I need like weeks of training to unlearn - don't reach into the pocket to catch a ball
that looks like it will scratch. Even if you dip it in there for just a second and then remember and
yank your hand back out like it's a hot stove... they may call you on it.
Doesn't matter if it's your own scratch or the opponent's. Minus ten points.

[8b] I'm not sure if this is in the rulebook or not but if you're shooting at the same pocket as before
and just leave the marker there from a previous miss, you're asking for trouble.
Best to physically pick it up and re-mark the pocket.

If you line up shots with your stick, keep it in your hands at all times, don't lay it on the table.
Also don't allow the tip to accidentally mark the cloth with chalk, you can get called for a marking foul.
This is especially easy to do accidentally if pointing at a spot on the rail for a kick/bank.

One I've done outside of playoffs: For god's sake, make sure the coach doesn't accidentally nudge
an object ball and especially the cue ball while gesticulating and explaining the shot

Don't allow the coach to place the cue ball for the other player. I've heard this is a foul,
never saw it called.

Last bit of advice: make EVERYone shoot EVERYthing. You scratch on the 9, make them spot it and shoot it.
You wouldn't believe how many people dog it in these events, especially if they're in it for the first time.
And, certain players get an attitude about this and let it go to their head. Not that we're playing mind games here,
it's just something you should do because there's no downside and a potential upside.

Theoretically, I think if they just grab the rack like they don't have to shoot it, you could call a super nitty
foul and win that rack because grabbing the rack = conceding that game.
I'd have to look that one up, it's not one I'd ever call, but just be aware of the possibility.

Man, you guys have some unhealthy house rules. Some of that stuff tuat isn't in the book, if you try to call that at the national level you get a sportsmanship warning

 

[TheNewSharkster]

If a ball is frozen to the rail, your opponent *MUST* declare it is frozen or it is not considered frozen. So be sure to check balls close to the rail and call it frozen or they may get away with a blatant foul.

 

[Celophanewrap]

If a ball is frozen to the rail, your opponent *MUST* declare it is frozen or it is not considered frozen. So be sure to check balls close to the rail and call it frozen or they may get away with a blatant foul.

To take that a bit further, you both must agree that it's frozen, if you don't then don't be afraid to protect yourself - get a referee to make the decision

 

[EndoftheLine]

I have been to Nationals for 9 ball 3 times and there were a few things different from our "local' rules as each area is allowed to have their own 'bylaws'.
Here are a few things that I have found over the years.

You can actually place the chalk on the SIDES of the rails to help while coaching for an aim spot....I too couldn't believe it at first BUT it can not be touching any of the true cloth.....by being off the cloth it is not considered marking the table.

If you are, for example, a SL9 and you are facing a tough shot and need to really make a good, thought out decision, and you are "on the clock" (ie being watched or are in sudden death), you can call time out and not even talk to anyone....that can buy you some time.

I do believe that you can use a break cue to jump with as the rule for switching rules has been removed.

I would stress to a lower skilled player NOT to touch any ball that they may have unintentionally moved with their hand, clothes, and the like until the cue ball has stopped moving. It MUST be placed back to were the opponent feels it was. The reasoning hear is due to, as stated by another previously, if the cueball contacts the moved ball, it does become a foul. They should watch for this also. It was never clarified though what happens when the shooter does move a ball unintentionally and puts it back w/out following the rules......could cause a stir as some of the competitors will try to nit pick everything.

There are dress rules and more so at the finals level and I have always stressed that to my teams but I have watched final matches and seen people that are not dressed as stated.....open toe sandals and those aren't supposed to be allowed but, again, some people will try to use that rule to their advantage.

For captains.....you must request any patches (ie 9 on the break or rack and run) when the scoresheet is turned in...if you forget, oh well, they aren't going to dig thru anything to find the scoresheets to give you what is due so remember to ask when you turn the sheet in and if you are on the losing end of the match, stick with the winning captain (as that is who turns them in) as that is the only way you are going to be able to claim them.

If you find that someone is shooting too slow, you should report it. You don't really want to face sudden death. The refs will not interrupt in the middle of a rack to issue the warning either so if it is the last rack possibly, that shooter can take as long as they want to work thru it...the warning won't be issued until that rack is done (been there, seen it!)

If someone on your team has a nice bridge, you should ask them to bring it as the ones provided are not very steady to use.

It is best to have all players show their ID before the matches even start. There are always instances of teams being DQ'd for playing different people than who they say they are!

If the team is talking in a language you don't understand, be wary....there was a team that was DQ'd for coaching in another language. I am not sure how they got disqualified.

If you find that you are out, as the captain, you should follow thru to see how each team you lost to ends up as if a team that beat you is DQ'd you are eligible to return the next year to play again (at your cost) or get some of the money that they were entitled to.

Make sure that everyone has their IDs and APA cards. You can buy another one if you forgot your membership card but an ID would be hard to come by!

If anyone on your team is a smoker, have them bring some Nicorette gum (the new flavored ones aren't so bad)....they can chew this during a match to curb the cravings. They will be able to be much more relaxed and focused...it's really amazing the difference it can make.

And, as said.....HAVE FUN. You will meet some really nice folks and some not so nice ones but it's an adventure!

 

[SloMoHolic]

There has been some really EXCELLENT advice in this thread! Great job, everybody!

Here are a few of my suggestions:

1. As many have said, HAVE FUN! To expound on this, if you notice a player seems to be very distressed or succumbing to the pressure, don't be afraid to call a timeout SOLELY to help them relax. I have done this many times, even at Nationals, and it is a great technique. Have a couple of smart-ass icebreaker jokes in your arsenal. Write them down and keep the paper in your case if you have to. Call the time out, walk up to the table silently, look at the layout intently, then bust out with a knock-knock joke. Wink, smile, say, "Have fun!" and walk away. If you are a high skill level player, call a timeout during your own game, ask your SL2 or 3 to assist, and do the same thing, especially if you are feeling some pressure yourself. Similarly, I have called timeouts on my players to ask about the weather, a drink recommendation, and for directions to the restrooms (but don't forget to wink and smile). You get my drift.

2. If you intend to call a ref to watch a shot, be sure you notify the opponent and receive acknowledgement. If you just walk away without saying anything, the opponent is free to shoot without any consequences. I believe only the active player or the captain can call for a ref, but you'll want to verify that.

3. If you suspect ongoing silent coaching (via well-timed coughing or some kind of visual signal), discreetly slip away to notify a ref. If you confront the opposing team directly, they will stop and will essentially get off the hook. I have had two matches at Nationals where the opponents were using signals. Both times, the ref observed from a distance, agreed, awarded our team that single matchup, and warned the opposing team. Also, both times, the ref explained to the other team that HE was the one that noticed it, not us.

4. In any case, if you do ask for help from a ref, be ready and willing to accept their call and move on, even if you disagree with the call. Don't get caught up on a bad call, because it is final. Move on, and remember, you are playing pool to have fun.

Best of luck to you and your team!!!

-Blake

 

[justadub]

Again, folks....thanks very much.

This has been very helpful. And very much appreciated.

Sigh, just a few hours now, after a 10 month wait. C'mon sleep

 

[lorider]

Again, folks....thanks very much.

This has been very helpful. And very much appreciated.

Sigh, just a few hours now, after a 10 month wait. C'mon sleep

good luck dub. I am playing in my 8 ball doubles cities tomorrow.

hope we both do good. :grin-square:

 

[SloMoHolic]

Justadub and Lorider,

How did your teams do?

Was the advice helpful and applicable, or did it not make much of a difference this particular weekend?

I hope to hear good news from both of you.

I think this was a great thread, BTW.

-Blake

 

[justadub]

Lost in the second round on Saturday for 8-ball, and in the first round yesterday for 9-ball. Sigh.


The second round loss for 8-ball was just one of those things...my 7 got beat by a 3, who played pretty well for a 3 but not crazy good, he just got some good fortune on leaves and such.

I lost my match to another 5, one that I should have won but simply didn't. I was up, hill-2 and didn't close him out. Good player, ran out or nearly out most times. It was a good match. The other loss was my 3 vs their 3, my guy left an 8-ball hanging...whatta gonna do?

9-ball was crazier, in that most of the games were lopsided wins for each team, and it came down to two 3's playing the last match. The other team was ahead by enough points that it became a 17-25 race, that was all their player needed to score enough match points for the win. It was back and forth the whole way, and ended up hill-3 before he won. That was really a fun match, actually. They had played each other the day before, and my player won that one.

Am I disappointed, yes. Upset, no. (Other than in my own personal play, of course, heh.)
Things went fairly smoothly, there was no major drama or whining or anything that is often associated with APA tourneys. Playing on 7-footers sure is different. No excuses, just a different style of play.

Now we gotta get back there next year.

 

[SloMoHolic]

Lost in the second round on Saturday for 8-ball, and in the first round yesterday for 9-ball. Sigh.


The second round loss for 8-ball was just one of those things...my 7 got beat by a 3, who played pretty well for a 3 but not crazy good, he just got some good fortune on leaves and such.

I lost my match to another 5, one that I should have won but simply didn't. I was up, hill-2 and didn't close him out. Good player, ran out or nearly out most times. It was a good match. The other loss was my 3 vs their 3, my guy left an 8-ball hanging...whatta gonna do?

9-ball was crazier, in that most of the games were lopsided wins for each team, and it came down to two 3's playing the last match. The other team was ahead by enough points that it became a 17-25 race, that was all their player needed to score enough match points for the win. It was back and forth the whole way, and ended up hill-3 before he won. That was really a fun match, actually. They had played each other the day before, and my player won that one.

Am I disappointed, yes. Upset, no. (Other than in my own personal play, of course, heh.)
Things went fairly smoothly, there was no major drama or whining or anything that is often associated with APA tourneys. Playing on 7-footers sure is different. No excuses, just a different style of play.

Now we gotta get back there next year.

Awwwwww.

I'm glad you had fun and got to sweat some close matches, though. And now your team has some experience on those 7 footers, too.

Even though it didn't turn out like we wanted, it sounds like it was a positive overall experience, and that is a good thing.

Keep up the good work. I think you're a heck of a captain, and overall, you seem like you are just a good person anyway.

Best of luck for next session!

-Blake

 

[justadub]

Awwwwww.

I'm glad you had fun and got to sweat some close matches, though. And now your team has some experience on those 7 footers, too.

Even though it didn't turn out like we wanted, it sounds like it was a positive overall experience, and that is a good thing.

Keep up the good work. I think you're a heck of a captain, and overall, you seem like you are just a good person anyway.

Best of luck for next session!

-Blake

Thanks. We have two great teams. (Four common players between the two teams.) A whole bunch of great friends. It was a lot of fun to spend the weekend together, going out to dinner and evening entertainment (and The Bruins won, too!) and just hanging out with each other. I hope we can keep the teams together, 9-ball might need some shuffling, due to skill levels...

There were three teams from our division there on both days, so it was good to have that much representation from our part of the world, and those folks are our friends, too. Sadly, none of use got past the second round either day. Again, sigh.

Certainly makes me wanna get back again next year. Three sessions between now and then, we gotta get our butts in gear!

 

[lorider]

sorry to hear you did not win dub, sadly our team did not go far either.

I will have to say the atmosphere was a lot different than last week. it was a lot more laid back. not quite as laid back as a regular league night but definitely not as intense as last week at the 8 ball cities.

well I have 2 more shots. we have 9 ball cities this weekend, same team as played in 8 ball and everyone said they will be there this time.

then we have 9 ball doubles the following weekend. I will be running back and forth between Memphis and tunica between the 9 ball doubles and the napa nationals time permitting. my doubles team told me to concentrate on the nationals and they will try to do the best they can without me.