SVB cheating? Shaw/SVB Derby 9 Ball

Coop1701

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
After all of the "Fake News," "alternative facts," unfounded claims, and inappropriate accusations in this thread, I'm surprised nobody has any comments on the video yet.

Regards,
Dave


The judge has ruled this video evidence will not be allowed.

The Jury is instructed to disregard this video marked as exhibit #5
 

Positively Ralf

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Why don't they just have referees racking? Then again, isn't the derby supposed to be a homage to the older days of hustler tournaments like the Johnston city one and no refs allowed?
 

Neil

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Why should it be cheating if the tournament rules allow it? I think most people have a problem with how the break determines a large part of who the winner is - in pro tournaments and "winner breaks". If the break decides over the outcome too much the game does not become more attractive.

Just my 2 cents.

Many seem to have that opinion and it makes no sense to me. The only way it really is true is if the 9 is constantly made on the break. It's just one shot. The rest of the balls also have to be made.

The pros have spent countless hours perfecting their skills on every type of shot to increase the chance of running out when given the opportunity to do so.

Yet, for some unknown reason, doing the same with the break shot, which in all reality is just another shot, it is frowned upon.

The only part I don't understand is what took the pros so long to learn how to shoot a break shot properly. You certainly don't just take a hard whack at an open ball. Why should you do it for the break?

If you want a random opening, but the balls in a bucket and pour them out over the rack area.
 

Meucciplayer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Well, I never accused Shane of cheating. However, when Shaw saw the relatively large gap and took a pic of it, I think he had a right to make Shane rack again. Everything else was pure BS on the side of Shaw.

How do you see the issue, Dr. Dave? Would you agree that asking for a rerack is ok?

(Apart from your findings that the gap would not have improved Shane's situation anyway?)
 

billiards102

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
After all of the "Fake News," "alternative facts," unfounded claims, and inappropriate accusations in this thread, I'm surprised nobody has any comments on the video yet.

Regards,
Dave

Thank you for taking the time to put this video together.

Your continuing efforts to improve the game do not go unnoticed. I encourage people to check out your other videos and resources @ http://billiards.colostate.edu/
 
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dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
BTW - That's a great video. Gotta give you props Dr. Dave.
Thanks to everybody for the supportive posts. I appreciate it.

I'm glad you guys like the video. I filmed it on Saturday, and my arm still hurts today from breaking so many times in a row (some with more power than my old arm can handle).

Regards,
Dave
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
Well, I never accused Shane of cheating. However, when Shaw saw the relatively large gap and took a pic of it, I think he had a right to make Shane rack again. Everything else was pure BS on the side of Shaw.

How do you see the issue, Dr. Dave? Would you agree that asking for a rerack is ok?

(Apart from your findings that the gap would not have improved Shane's situation anyway?)
I can see why players sitting in their chair watching good breaks, one after another, with easy run-outs, would be suspicious with all of the examples of pattern racking and gap manipulation we've seen over the years.

Jayson certainly had a right to inspect the rack and to ask for a re-rack based on that photo.

Obvioulsy, I wasn't impressed with Jayson's unprofessional behavior in how he handled the situation.

Regards,
Dave
 
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Dimeball

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yes, the attitude Jayson exhibited is the real topic to me. Dunno about you guys, but, some flunky swipes a rack of balls with his hand, in a rack your own tourney, that I just racked, boy look. May have been "more than just words" going on, OR at least back in my younger days... LOL.

The dude was really trying hard to make SVB look bad and pretty much made him look better for his composure. Ain't karma great!
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Silver Member
Yes, the attitude Jayson exhibited is the real topic to me. Dunno about you guys, but, some flunky swipes a rack of balls with his hand, in a rack your own tourney, that I just racked, boy look. May have been "more than just words" going on, OR at least back in my younger days... LOL.

The dude was really trying hard to make SVB look bad and pretty much made him look better for his composure. Ain't karma great!

If Shane had’ve called him for raking the balls, it could’ve got interesting.
 

HouTexPlayer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Shaw's point was valid and SVB's rack should have been addressed - perhaps with a TD or someone with the ability to provide some guidance and influence. Shaw's reaction was out of line for a professional player though - just my .02.
 

pwd72s

recreational banger
Silver Member
Many thanks to Dr. Dave...excellence itself in that video.

The behavior? Well, that's up to each of us to judge.
 

Meucciplayer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thanks, Dr Dave. Your website is a great help in many ways. I use it a lot but there is so much information there that I need to concentrate on only smaller parts - else I would be lost. As my knowledge grows, I search more and more parts of the great info you supply.
 

$TAKE HOR$E

champagne - campaign
Silver Member
Sums it up, if everybody's doing it.... ;)
 

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dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
Thanks, Dr Dave. Your website is a great help in many ways. I use it a lot but there is so much information there that I need to concentrate on only smaller parts - else I would be lost. As my knowledge grows, I search more and more parts of the great info you supply.
I get that a lot ... "your website is too big and I get lost." I totally understand. I sometimes get lost trying to find stuff even though I put it all there. The following page might be useful for people who use or recommend my site:

How to Use billiards.colostate.edu

I also hope to improve and modernize the site at some point in the future.

Regards,
Dave
 

Meucciplayer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Oh, it is not so much that I can't find stuff (happens sometimes also) but more that I am just not good enough as a pool player to absorb it all at once. It's more my own capacity to remember what to do in a certain situation when it comes up during a game.
 

Ak Guy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Why, why , why?

I don't get it. If Shaw really believes Shane and Dennis cheat when racking there is a simple solution, challenge them to a long winner breaks race in 9 Ball. Put some big money on the match. Should be easy for him as he feels he looses because they cheat.

Find a good neutral racker and use the Magic Rack. Who ever the rack guy is can ref the game. Then Shaw can prove he is right by taking Shane and Dennis down.

Why is it he does not do this? I think both Shane and Dennis would accommodate him.

I also plead with tournament directors, set some professional standards and show players the door when they act out. Don't tolerate childish temper tantrums and attempts to destroy ones character with the hope of gaining some future advantage.

Those types of people are not truthful, lack self control, and tarnish the game.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
... I also plead with tournament directors, set some professional standards and ...
And they could start by providing rackers (not necessarily refs) for the games. It would be that expensive and probably not all tables would want/require it. I feel this whole thread is due to a failure of tournament administration. At the time of the problem a single person could have racked for all the active tables.
 
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