Tapered reamer for coring?

cueman

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
The Reamer



Finally received this thing. It actually works better than I could have hoped. With the small taper it cuts the hole fast without too much heat on moderately hard wood. On softer wood it cuts like butter. Took about a minute to ream the Pau Ferro in the video. I put a vacuum at the bore outlet at the left end of the head stock to draw air to cool and clear the flutes of dust.


No dry spots going to happen here. Can let the west systems soak in for a while first. Or even use titebond I guess. I plan to put the "A" joint at the small end to lock things in so to speak. We'll see how long it stays sharp.

JC
How long did the reamer stay sharp? I see in later videos you abandoned this tapered method. Is that just because you want to use full butt length cores or were there down sides with tapered coring for forearms and butts?
 

JC

Coos Cues
Gold Member
How long did the reamer stay sharp? I see in later videos you abandoned this tapered method. Is that just because you want to use full butt length cores or were there down sides with tapered coring for forearms and butts?
I didn't taper enough cores to dull it and yes you are correct when I decided finally that my preferred method of building my cues was a full core I quit tapering them and concentrated on processes for the full core construction.

If I were building cues with an A joint I would be 100% tapering them I found no downside to it.
 

JoeyInCali

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The Reamer



Finally received this thing. It actually works better than I could have hoped. With the small taper it cuts the hole fast without too much heat on moderately hard wood. On softer wood it cuts like butter. Took about a minute to ream the Pau Ferro in the video. I put a vacuum at the bore outlet at the left end of the head stock to draw air to cool and clear the flutes of dust.


No dry spots going to happen here. Can let the west systems soak in for a while first. Or even use titebond I guess. I plan to put the "A" joint at the small end to lock things in so to speak. We'll see how long it stays sharp.

JC
That is one expensive tool .
After mulling it over , I find no value in them .
 

cueman

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I like the tapered core idea, but have a few reservations. One is the heat causing some sensitive woods to crack. Second is does it veer off or ream straight? Third but probably the most unlikely problem if using epoxy to glue it, is could the angle create the splitting maul effect? Last is could that bit be used on any of the lighter weight cue lathes?
 

JC

Coos Cues
Gold Member
I like the tapered core idea, but have a few reservations. One is the heat causing some sensitive woods to crack. Second is does it veer off or ream straight? Third but probably the most unlikely problem if using epoxy to glue it, is could the angle create the splitting maul effect? Last is could that bit be used on any of the lighter weight cue lathes?
I didn't do this but you can have them built with air cooling built in much like the gun drills. I put a vacuum on the end to draw air and chips through and the wood felt to the touch about the same as when gun drilling. Not scientific.

The taper I used is only .020 over the core length and veering off was not an issue in the slightest. Some people feel that tapering should render a consistent wall thickness on the outer wood but I fail to see the science of a benefit that outweighs the amount of wood necessary to ream out to accomplish that. This is where problems of heat begin. I am only interested in the glue bond compared to a sliding in core, not the wall thickness.

I would gun drill it and taper it with as much wood still on the round as possible. The thinner the wall the more trouble you're asking for. Another cue builder reported it was a bitch tapering BEM due to the hard eyes. Funny because heavier wood like coco or ebony just melts like butter.

The splitting effect shouldn't be an issue and here is why. You can push the wood together lightly dry and mark the mating point at the ends. Knowing the taper allows you to calculate the precise thickness of the glue line if you push the parts together short of the zero clearance point. This way depending on the glue you're using you can calculate exactly how far to push them together wet compared to the dry minimum and know exactly how thick the glue is in there by how far short of the dry spot you push them. You need to take this into account when building the pieces that they will not engage each other as far with the glue in there or the relationship will be off between what you had dry. The tapered cores I built I glued with titebond and the taper allowed me to do so as I consider it a superior adhesive for the application and know of no other technique to glue cores into wood using it. Titebond has consistently outperformed all other adhesives on wood to wood joints in every test I have ever seen which is what got my interest. This includes marine epoxy.
 

Scratchy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I didn't do this but you can have them built with air cooling built in much like the gun drills. I put a vacuum on the end to draw air and chips through and the wood felt to the touch about the same as when gun drilling. Not scientific.

The taper I used is only .020 over the core length and veering off was not an issue in the slightest. Some people feel that tapering should render a consistent wall thickness on the outer wood but I fail to see the science of a benefit that outweighs the amount of wood necessary to ream out to accomplish that. This is where problems of heat begin. I am only interested in the glue bond compared to a sliding in core, not the wall thickness.

I would gun drill it and taper it with as much wood still on the round as possible. The thinner the wall the more trouble you're asking for. Another cue builder reported it was a bitch tapering BEM due to the hard eyes. Funny because heavier wood like coco or ebony just melts like butter.

The splitting effect shouldn't be an issue and here is why. You can push the wood together lightly dry and mark the mating point at the ends. Knowing the taper allows you to calculate the precise thickness of the glue line if you push the parts together short of the zero clearance point. This way depending on the glue you're using you can calculate exactly how far to push them together wet compared to the dry minimum and know exactly how thick the glue is in there by how far short of the dry spot you push them. You need to take this into account when building the pieces that they will not engage each other as far with the glue in there or the relationship will be off between what you had dry. The tapered cores I built I glued with titebond and the taper allowed me to do so as I consider it a superior adhesive for the application and know of no other technique to glue cores into wood using it. Titebond has consistently outperformed all other adhesives on wood to wood joints in every test I have ever seen which is what got my interest. This includes marine epoxy.

I shared in the purchase and agreed with John’s rationale on minimum taper as having a lot of merit. However, I was only able to manage to complete a couple on my CueSmith Deluxe. The tool has a righthand spiral, 3 flutes. I had a lot of problems with the flutes digging themselves in and locking up my system. John has much beefier machines and I suspect his had the power to just eat it up, but mine could not. I have since retired it from use as regardless of wood, it would lock me up tight as a drum, I could not control feed to prevent it. I still think it’s an obvious and excellent approach to coring, but if I were to order another, I would have it made with a lefthand spiral or just straight flutes, FWIW.
There was at least one other fellow in on the purchase, I’m not sure what his experience, or equipment, was. Perhaps he’ll weigh in.

Mac


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whammo57

Kim Walker
Silver Member
your kidding right? By what possible logic could it not be considered better? Is it that a full length straight core floating in spray foam insulation is supposedly good enough?
floating in spray foam???? what are you talking about????
 

JoeyInCali

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I didn't taper enough cores to dull it and yes you are correct when I decided finally that my preferred method of building my cues was a full core I quit tapering them and concentrated on processes for the full core construction.

If I were building cues with an A joint I would be 100% tapering them I found no downside to it.
I use a 7" long boring bar and I can have a much thicker bottom than if I used that reamer .
I still don't see an advantage to it .
I have an A-joint. Wood threads going down a reinforced top of the handle core .
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
Along with a small metal lathe, a cue lathe, a few more lathes, I have 21"x40" wood lathe, five horsepower or so. I have done ornamental turnings as big as a couple feet long and twelve or fourteen inches in diameter. The blanks for my gouges run $100 plus. With all of this, I can tell y'all the potential for a hell of a trainwreck exists. I shudder at the idea of a tapered boring bar grabbing from end to end. It's kinda exciting when an eight hundred pound lathe starts doing the Watusi across the shop floor too!

With all of the things to go wrong I think a stepped center hole and a stepped center core with glue relief lines would be the better idea. I would look up some of the woodturners sites, there is a national association and a smaller group of super knowledgeable people that could and will help.

If I were trying this I would support both ends and at least two places in the middle or have the butt inside the headstock. Inline skate wheels can be used to make good steady rests and since they can flex a little it gives a little added protection.

I suspect everyone on this forum already knows this but when trying something new or new woods be sure not to stand inline with the stock.

My thoughts were to match the boring to the outside taper of the cue or to just use a plain stepped hole which some builders are already doing.

Trying to make tooling do something it isn't meant to do isn't for the faint of heart! I would prefer to play with this on a medium sized metal lathe that is securely bolted down. My buddy's roughly seventeen inch or bigger times sixty inch metal lathe comes to mind. Build or buy a spider and have basically all of the butt you are boring inside the headstock and chuck. No doubt overkill but I have seen things go crazy just cutting soft plastic.

It will probably set you back another $700 or $1000 but a roughing bar would probably be a good idea.

Just late night/early morning ramblings.

Hu
 

Kim Bye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
"shudder at the idea of a tapered boring bar grabbing from end to end. It's kinda exciting when an eight hundred pound lathe starts doing the Watusi across the shop floor too!"
If you have bored a hole matching the small diameter of the reamer, and you go slow I don't think that it will be a problem at all.
 
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BarenbruggeCues

Unregistered User
Silver Member
"shudder at the idea of a tapered boring bar grabbing from end to end. It's kinda exciting when an eight hundred pound lathe starts doing the Watusi across the shop floor too!"
If you have bored a hole marching the small diameter of the reamer, and you go slow I don't think that it want be a problem at all.
You can't drive to China from the US in a Kia. With the right equipment almost anything is possible.
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
"shudder at the idea of a tapered boring bar grabbing from end to end. It's kinda exciting when an eight hundred pound lathe starts doing the Watusi across the shop floor too!"
If you have bored a hole marching the small diameter of the reamer, and you go slow I don't think that it want be a problem at all.



You can't drive to China from the US in a Kia. With the right equipment almost anything is possible.


I don't know why I keep typing boring bar! I caught it a few times, I see I missed it some too. No sleep to speak of last night, I'll blame it on that!(grin) I had some small specialty reamers made at three hundred a pop but more to the point of this discussion I have a fourteen inch or so tapered reamer. Give that SOB half a chance and it will wrap up most anything.

I agree with you about the right equipment, however most cue smiths don't have the type of equipment to handle the kind of load a big reamer will produce if it grabs. I built myself a set-up that effectively lets me see where a tool is cutting inside a blind hole. Seems like that might be handy for this reamer idea. You could cut away over ninety percent of the wood single point cutting then even turn a reamer by hand with the right set up to guide it. I think that might be the way I would ream a tapered hole but as I started posting in this thread I started remembering why I abandoned tapered cores for a cue long ago! Tapered reamers for coring pool cues seem to offer more headaches than they do returns.

Hu
 

cueman

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I shared in the purchase and agreed with John’s rationale on minimum taper as having a lot of merit. However, I was only able to manage to complete a couple on my CueSmith Deluxe. The tool has a righthand spiral, 3 flutes. I had a lot of problems with the flutes digging themselves in and locking up my system. John has much beefier machines and I suspect his had the power to just eat it up, but mine could not. I have since retired it from use as regardless of wood, it would lock me up tight as a drum, I could not control feed to prevent it. I still think it’s an obvious and excellent approach to coring, but if I were to order another, I would have it made with a lefthand spiral or just straight flutes, FWIW.
There was at least one other fellow in on the purchase, I’m not sure what his experience, or equipment, was. Perhaps he’ll weigh in.

Mac


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Do you want to sell your bit cheap? If so pm me a price.
 
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