Team USA will not have Justin Bergman at Mosconi Cup

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
Emily Frazer explained the reasoning why, and though I am a huge Justin Bergman fan, I understand. It's difficult being in her position and trying to keep the Mosconi Cup ship running smoothly.

Me personally, I'm afraid to fly in airplanes. I flew one time when I was a teenager and never again. I don't know if that's the case with Justin, but I think Emily Frazer is trying to lay all the cards on the table before the event so we can all pull in the same direction.

View attachment 608436
No worries Jam. I always tell the pilot to fly low and slow. ;)
 
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MitchAlsup

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Me personally, I'm afraid to fly in airplanes. I flew one time when I was a teenager and never again.
If I can drive to a destination in 3 days or less, I will not get on an airplane. From my present location I can make everywhere in this country other than Maine and Alaska and Hawaii with this rule.

It is not so much the airplane, or the flight:: it is TSA, and feeling like you are in prison for 7 hours of a 4 hour flight.

You see, I am old enough to remember flying when if you made it to the ticket stand with 3 minutes before the door closes, you got on the flight.
I am old enough to remember walking out on the tarmac to greet my father as he deboarded a plane.
I also remember getting really drunk on time at the Frat house, driving out to the Pittsburgh airport and playing hide and go seek from 3:00 AM to about 5:00 AM with nobody else inside the terminal.

TSA ruined airplane travel.
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
If I can drive to a destination in 3 days or less, I will not get on an airplane. From my present location I can make everywhere in this country other than Maine and Alaska and Hawaii with this rule.

It is not so much the airplane, or the flight:: it is TSA, and feeling like you are in prison for 7 hours of a 4 hour flight.

You see, I am old enough to remember flying when if you made it to the ticket stand with 3 minutes before the door closes, you got on the flight.
I am old enough to remember walking out on the tarmac to greet my father as he deboarded a plane.
I also remember getting really drunk on time at the Frat house, driving out to the Pittsburgh airport and playing hide and go seek from 3:00 AM to about 5:00 AM with nobody else inside the terminal.

TSA ruined airplane travel.
When I was a kid we flew only on prop planes. It took three and half hours to fly from Dayton to New York, a distance of 600 miles, in a two engine plane. Only two and a half hours in the big four engine Constellations. No matter, I got sick and threw up on every flight! It was bumpy! :rolleyes:
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
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I'm confused. Is she making the decision for Justin? It's worded that way. Why not let him ultimately decide whether he wants to go or not?
Pretty clear that this is a Matchroom decision. Why they decided to say anything about it I don't know. It's a non story if they say nothing and just chose four other players.
 

pwd72s

recreational banger
Silver Member
I'd like to hear what Justin has to say...

Plane vs. drive? Years ago, Brock Yates, writing for Car and Driver, made a strong case that for any distance of 500 miles or so, you were better off driving. And this was before TSA and mask requirements, so probably could stretch that to 1,000 miles.
 

BeiberLvr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Pretty clear that this is a Matchroom decision. Why they decided to say anything about it I don't know. It's a non story if they say nothing and just chose four other players.

But if they say nothing, then fans are going to have a ton of questions when the team is announced and he's not one of the players.

Better to nip it in the bud now.

Of course, there will still be questions in December, because pool players seem to have the memory of a...what's that animal that always forgets stuff? I can't remember.
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm confused. Is she making the decision for Justin? It's worded that way. Why not let him ultimately decide whether he wants to go or not?

I don't read it that way at all.

From EF's statement it appears JB won't commit to overseas travel and MR feels that's unfair to the rest of the US team, end of story.

Lou Figueroa
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Pretty clear that this is a Matchroom decision. Why they decided to say anything about it I don't know. It's a non story if they say nothing and just chose four other players.

Announcing a US team without JB on it automatically generates a truck load of questions.

Lou Figueroa
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
I don't read it that way at all.

From EF's statement it appears JB won't commit to overseas travel and MR feels that's unfair to the rest of the US team, end of story.

Lou Figueroa
You do understand that what you just said makes no sense. How does his not wanting to fly become unfair to anyone else? He's not asking any of them not to fly with him, is he? His choice not to fly (he could take a boat!) is a personal decision that does not impact anyone but himself. Presenting it as somehow unfair is to do an injustice to Justin, and places blame on him for making this choice. Kind of an ugly statement to make in my opinion, and should have been left unsaid.

And as for anyone with the opinion that he has somehow diminished Team USA's chances, that is no more than an excuse to fail in my opinion as well. Justin has rarely played in the tournaments held in the last few months and has not had good (any) results in the ones he has played in. I can't even find his name anywhere on the list of money winners this year. His addition or subtraction from this year's team is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. There are many other deserving choices out there, who have been playing and doing well. How about Josh Roberts for one?
 
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lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You do understand that what you just said makes no sense. How does his not wanting to fly become unfair to anyone else? He's not asking any of them not to fly with him, is he? His choice not to fly (he could take a boat!) is a personal decision that does not impact anyone but himself. Presenting it as somehow unfair is to do an injustice to Justin, and places blame on him for making this choice. Kind of an ugly statement to make in my opinion, and should have been left unsaid.

And as for anyone with the opinion that he has somehow diminished Team USA's chances, that is no more than an excuse to fail in my opinion as well. Justin has rarely played in the tournaments held in the last few months and has not had good results in the ones he has played in. Let's just say this hasn't been his best year by far. His addition or subtraction from this year's team is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. There are many other deserving choices out there, who have been playing and doing well. How about Josh Roberts for one?

If I'm suppose to be on a team, how is it fair to the rest of the squad if I tell them: I might get on the plane... or maybe not.

As to the rest, a lot of people are JB fans. Regardless of how you feel about him there are others that would question his absence.

Lou Figueroa
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
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Silver Member
If I'm suppose to be on a team, how is it fair to the rest of the squad if I tell them: I might get on the plane... or maybe not.

As to the rest, a lot of people are JB fans. Regardless of how you feel about him there are others that would question his absence.

Lou Figueroa
Who said he is supposed to be on the team? You?

Please tell me what he has done this year to qualify himself to be on the team. He hasn't played in any tournaments or won any money. Justin has been a non player this year, except for a challenge match. And you think he is supposed to be on the team just because he is Justin Bergman? Please!

This statement put out there by Matchroom castigating him for not wanting to fly is baloney! It didn't need to be said and is hurtful to a very nice guy who didn't need to be ostracized for making this decision. It shows a contempt on the part of the spokesperson for Matchroom to couch his absence in these terms. Are you beginning to get the picture now?
 
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kollegedave

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You do understand that what you just said makes no sense. How does his not wanting to fly become unfair to anyone else? He's not asking any of them not to fly with him, is he? His choice not to fly (he could take a boat!) is a personal decision that does not impact anyone but himself. Presenting it as somehow unfair is to do an injustice to Justin, and places blame on him for making this choice. Kind of an ugly statement to make in my opinion, and should have been left unsaid.

And as for anyone with the opinion that he has somehow diminished Team USA's chances, that is no more than an excuse to fail in my opinion as well. Justin has rarely played in the tournaments held in the last few months and has not had good results in the ones he has played in. Let's just say this hasn't been his best year by far. His addition or subtraction from this year's team is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. There are many other deserving choices out there, who have been playing and doing well. How about Josh Roberts for one?
Jay,

I read Emily Fraser's announcement a bit different than you.

It doesn't mean I am right.

I believe the statement from Matchroom asserts (whether you agree with it or not) that in their view, Justin's unwillingness to travel overseas" negatively impacts his team in that he has less experience in "Matchroom-type" of events whilst his teammates are preparing by attending those events, and to the extent there is some team benefit to shared experiences in a foreign place, the players miss out on having Justin there. Perhaps, more importantly, I think Matchroom wants the MC players to participate in other Matchroom events, and since Justin will not be at other overseas Matchroom events, they do not want him to get MC money, and they want that money to go to a player that will also attend other overseas Matchroom events and so he is out. Personally, I am a Justin Bergman fan, and if I was king of the universe he might make some different decisions in his pool playing career and maybe Matchroom would as well. However, unfortunately for JB and myself, I am not king of the universe, and Matchroom is the 3000 lbs. gorilla in the poolroom.

I agree wholeheartedly with your statement on Josh Roberts. He is always in the grease, and his Fargo Rate is above other players who were given a chance to play on the Mosconi Cup. To the extent that there is some "process" outside of "points" rankings to determine the team, I think Roberts should be given a chance. I would not be offended if the same opportunity were extended to Danny Olson, but not to the exclusion of Josh Roberts.

Just my 0.02

kollegedave
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Who said he is supposed to be on the team? You?

Please tell me what he has done this year to qualify himself to be on the team. He hasn't played in any tournaments or won any money. Justin has been a non player this year, except for a challenge match. And you think he is supposed to be on the team just because he is Justin Bergman? Please!

This statement put out there by Matchroom castigating him for not wanting to fly is baloney! It didn't need to be said and is hurtful to a very nice guy who didn't need to be ostracized for making this decision. It shows a contempt on the part of the spokesperson for Matchroom to couch his absence in these terms. Are you beginning to get the picture now?

Here's EF's statement again.

In it she says "Bergman will not commit or travel to an event outside of the the US." That and the rest of the statement implies he was offered a slot on the team. So the answer to your first question is that it is MR who believes he should be selected for the team. Further, I never said *I* thought he should be on the team but rather that he has fans that feel that way and would question why he wasn't included. Lastly, that statement does not show "contempt" in any way, shape or form. It is merely an explanation of the situation, capisce?

Lou Figueroa
 

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jtompilot

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
When I was a kid we flew only on prop planes. It took three and half hours to fly from Dayton to New York, a distance of 600 miles, in a two engine plane. Only two and a half hours in the big four engine Constellations. No matter, I got sick and threw up on every flight! It was bumpy! :rolleyes:
That 2.5 hrs in a Connie must include the check in time🛩
The Filipino players spend half the year in the states, I’m OK if they play every other game🤣
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
Jay,

I read Emily Fraser's announcement a bit different than you.

It doesn't mean I am right.

I believe the statement from Matchroom asserts (whether you agree with it or not) that in their view, Justin's unwillingness to travel overseas" negatively impacts his team in that he has less experience in "Matchroom-type" of events whilst his teammates are preparing by attending those events, and to the extent there is some team benefit to shared experiences in a foreign place, the players miss out on having Justin there. Perhaps, more importantly, I think Matchroom wants the MC players to participate in other Matchroom events, and since Justin will not be at other overseas Matchroom events, they do not want him to get MC money, and they want that money to go to a player that will also attend other overseas Matchroom events and so he is out. Personally, I am a Justin Bergman fan, and if I was king of the universe he might make some different decisions in his pool playing career and maybe Matchroom would as well. However, unfortunately for JB and myself, I am not king of the universe, and Matchroom is the 3000 lbs. gorilla in the poolroom.

I agree wholeheartedly with your statement on Josh Roberts. He is always in the grease, and his Fargo Rate is above other players who were given a chance to play on the Mosconi Cup. To the extent that there is some "process" outside of "points" rankings to determine the team, I think Roberts should be given a chance. I would not be offended if the same opportunity were extended to Danny Olson, but not to the exclusion of Josh Roberts.

Just my 0.02

kollegedave
Thank you Dave. That's a lot of convoluted reasoning to justify simply saying that Justin will not be on Team USA this year. Once again, based on his non record in tournament play this year I would not think he would have been considered anyway. Ms. Fraser should have thought twice about posting a message like this, just like the earlier scribe about players needing to sign an agreement not to play in any other U.S. Open "type" events. Read her message again. She talks about Justin's choice not to fly somehow "punishing" Team USA's chances to win. I call BS on that! She goes on to say there is no disrespect meant, after she just disrespected him. The entire statement is disrespectful imo. I know many people are either afraid or feel the need to be careful in criticizing Matchroom. I'm not one of them.

There's a right way and wrong way to do business. Being honorable and respectful is the right way as far as I'm concerned.
 
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fastone371

Certifiable
Silver Member
If I can drive to a destination in 3 days or less, I will not get on an airplane. From my present location I can make everywhere in this country other than Maine and Alaska and Hawaii with this rule.

It is not so much the airplane, or the flight:: it is TSA, and feeling like you are in prison for 7 hours of a 4 hour flight.

You see, I am old enough to remember flying when if you made it to the ticket stand with 3 minutes before the door closes, you got on the flight.
I am old enough to remember walking out on the tarmac to greet my father as he deboarded a plane.
I also remember getting really drunk on time at the Frat house, driving out to the Pittsburgh airport and playing hide and go seek from 3:00 AM to about 5:00 AM with nobody else inside the terminal.

TSA ruined airplane travel.
Also old enough to remember when people wore their best clothes when they flew I bet. Last time I was at the airport I couldn't believe how some people presented themselves, they looked like they were living under bridges.
 

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
Announcing a US team without JB on it automatically generates a truck load of questions.

Lou Figueroa
That's how I see it, too. Yes, Bergman has been in very limited competition of late, but based on Fargo rate, he's the fourth best American player, and third when you take note that Dechaine is semi-retired from pro pool.

SVB 828. tied with Filler for #1 Fargo rating in the world
Mike Dechaine 801, 29th best Fargo rating in the world
Skyler Woodward 800, 30th best Fargo rating in the world
Justin Bergman 794, 47th best Fargo rating in the world
Corey Deuel, 778, 83rd best Fargo Rate in the world.

The last time Justin played in a major WPA sanctioned event, to my best recollection, was at the 2019 International, where he finished fourth in a killer field. Justin has also played fairly well in past Mosconi Cups. So, as you suggest, Bergman's absence would be conspicuous.

Whether Matchroom handled the announcement as well as they might have can certainly be questioned, but they'd have had to address the Bergman omission at some point no matter what, and doing so early made sense to this fan.
 
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