Terrible stroke

dquarasr

Registered
Lost 9-ball last night straight up 4 against 4, 31-22. Lost 8-ball straight up 3 racks to 0 (although two racks were dubious: first rack I inadvertently pocketed the 8 on a weird carom-carom-carom, second rack my SL4 opponent broke and ran out leaving me in my chair for the rack). This extends my winless streak to six weeks.

Afterwards, I got some help from one of the better players in my league last night. He pointed out a problem. I had no idea my stroke had devolved so badly. Here are two freeze frames of a straight shot, first right before contact, second just after. The irony is that this is while I am super-focusing on following through straight, without dropping my elbow.

Not sure how to fix it given that my intent is to follow through straight and I *think* I'm doing that. But the camera never lies.

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Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Looks like you might be instinctively steering your grip hand out to avoid hitting your rib cage. To solve that problem for myself I learned to stand more "closed" (facing the cue) with my hips and torso rotated a little out of the way of my stroke. Or you could just go ahead and hit your ribs...

pj
chgo
 

dquarasr

Registered
Looks like you might be instinctively steering your grip hand out to avoid hitting your rib cage. To solve that problem for myself I learned to stand more "closed" (facing the cue) with my hips and torso rotated a little out of the way of my stroke. Or you could just go ahead and hit your ribs...

pj
chgo
Thank, PJ. Yeah, that’s on my list of things to try. I will probably start over again with Mark’s book. I had slowly moved away from his approach trying to accommodate some limitations of my particular physique and injuries. I’ll see if I can reset and see how I might be able to get used to sight lines with my head slightly askew to allow for the neck problems I have. I think I didn’t give that approach enough time.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Thank, PJ. Yeah, that’s on my list of things to try. I will probably start over again with Mark’s book. I had slowly moved away from his approach trying to accommodate some limitations of my particular physique and injuries. I’ll see if I can reset and see how I might be able to get used to sight lines with my head slightly askew to allow for the neck problems I have. I think I didn’t give that approach enough time.
If you can't give your grip hand room to follow through comfortably, maybe dropping your elbow a little on the follow through will help.

pj
chgo
 

DrCue'sProtege

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You might be a "Wobbler" and your right hand just naturally veers to the left. And it's hard to correct too.

See a "QUALIFIED" instructor or a very good player.
 

One Pocket John

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member

I'm not an Instructor but I would like to offer a reminder.

From the photos it appears that you are physically forcing the cue thru the cue ball.
Reminder: Your cue probably weighs somewhere around 18oz, the cue ball weighs somewhere around 5.5 oz. That means your cue weighs over 3 times the weight of the cue ball.

Imagine if someone who weighs over 3 times your weight ran into you at some speed, your going to go flying. Same principle.

You don't need to help the cue go thru the cue ball. All you have to do is apply arm speed with a light grip and let the cue deliver itself forward in a straight line on it's own. The cue will come to a stop (after striking the cue ball) either naturally or because you intentionally stop the cues forward travel.

Have a good day. :)
John
 

dquarasr

Registered

I'm not an Instructor but I would like to offer a reminder.

From the photos it appears that you are physically forcing the cue thru the cue ball.
Reminder: Your cue probably weighs somewhere around 18oz, the cue ball weighs somewhere around 5.5 oz. That means your cue weighs over 3 times the weight of the cue ball.

Imagine if someone who weighs over 3 times your weight ran into you at some speed, your going to go flying. Same principle.
Oh, I know what that feels like. I played ice hockey for my high school team: 5'4", 118 lbs when I graduated. When I was younger I was very fast, kept me out of trouble. When I got to 17-18, everyone was HUGE and just as fast. :)

You don't need to help the cue go thru the cue ball. All you have to do is apply arm speed with a light grip and let the cue deliver itself forward in a straight line on it's own. The cue will come to a stop (after striking the cue ball) either naturally or because you intentionally stop the cues forward travel.

Have a good day. :)
John
Yes, it's something I continually have to remind myself. Thanks for your input.

Yesterday I went back to a stance per Mark Wilson. Worked a little bit better, but not 100%. I also am working on rotating my hips so I have more clearance per a suggestion from Imac007 via DM. That was better still, but I still occasionally move my elbow out. Much better than when I first posted, but still requires work to be more consistent.

I also noticed that if I super relax my grip, have my thumb pointing down as has also been suggested here, I'm more consistent with the stroke being straight. Working on it. It's only day 2. ;)
If it's at all possible to make and post a video (it's free to do on YouTube) it will be easier to evaluate what you're doing.
I'll work on it, Bob, using the "new" (old!?!) approach I describe in the previous paragraph. I'll try to put something up later today. Thanks.
 
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straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You might be pulling your arm up rather than drop the elbow. There's also what looks like apprehension on your face. Try putting your stick on the shot line and just pulling the trigger. If you think about it, once the stick is in line, there's nothing more to aim.
 

dquarasr

Registered
I've set up a straight shot drill with donuts. I have a donut to place the CB and OB on the same spot each time, plus another donut "downstream" of the CB, but not visible while down on the shot (the CB blocks this last donut). Then I execute the shot and see if the tip of the cue is over the downstream donut. This is helping me gauge my progress.
 

Scott Lee

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I've set up a straight shot drill with donuts. I have a donut to place the CB and OB on the same spot each time, plus another donut "downstream" of the CB, but not visible while down on the shot (the CB blocks this last donut). Then I execute the shot and see if the tip of the cue is over the downstream donut. This is helping me gauge my progress.
Are you using a lazer level so you know your lines are truly straight?

Scott Lee
 

dquarasr

Registered
Are you using a lazer level so you know your lines are truly straight?

Scott Lee
No, don’t have one

EDIT: but I used a tape measure’s straight edge to align the donuts with the center of the target pocket opening.
 
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Scott Lee

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
No, don’t have one
So you don't even know if your lines are straight, your stroke is straight, or your 'aiming' is straight. I'm coming to Miami in a couple of weeks. Let's get together, and fix this once and for all!

Scott Lee
 

dquarasr

Registered
So you don't even know if your lines are straight, your stroke is straight, or your 'aiming' is straight. I'm coming to Miami in a couple of weeks. Let's get together, and fix this once and for all!

Scott Lee
See my edit. I’m in central Fl near Orlando. Let’s discuss via DM.
 

PoolBoy1

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Lost 9-ball last night straight up 4 against 4, 31-22. Lost 8-ball straight up 3 racks to 0 (although two racks were dubious: first rack I inadvertently pocketed the 8 on a weird carom-carom-carom, second rack my SL4 opponent broke and ran out leaving me in my chair for the rack). This extends my winless streak to six weeks.

Afterwards, I got some help from one of the better players in my league last night. He pointed out a problem. I had no idea my stroke had devolved so badly. Here are two freeze frames of a straight shot, first right before contact, second just after. The irony is that this is while I am super-focusing on following through straight, without dropping my elbow.

Not sure how to fix it given that my intent is to follow through straight and I *think* I'm doing that. But the camera never lies.

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Good point maybe too square. Place balls of right foot on target line. That being a line from the object ball ghost strike spot to the cue ball center. Then step into the shot with your left side. It's a sideways stance. Your right hand to shoulder will swing more naturally back and forth more freely. Also the head does not have to be so square. Let it naturally rotate some to the right while keeping nose bridge over shaft.....always do a pre shot routine to get into this position. Checkpoints: rear foot on target line, front and rear hand and elbow and shoulder forms a straight line.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
... I used a tape measure’s straight edge to align the donuts with the center of the target pocket opening.
That should be plenty accurate enough. An alignment like that is far more accurate than your stroke will ever be.

Even more accurate would be to stretch a thread along the line and then remove it when you have the donuts in place. I put a pin in the cloth -- no damage -- to anchor each end with a little stretch. I think this gets a more accurate line of donuts than even a laser.
 

Good Sam

Registered
That should be plenty accurate enough. An alignment like that is far more accurate than your stroke will ever be.

Even more accurate would be to stretch a thread along the line and then remove it when you have the donuts in place. I put a pin in the cloth -- no damage -- to anchor each end with a little stretch. I think this gets a more accurate line of donuts than even a laser.
I used a purple chalk line and popped an "X" from corner pocket to corner pocket diagonally across the table. The purple chalk is the !east permanent chalk out there. The lines were gone the first time I brushed my table afterwards.
 

dquarasr

Registered
I’ve been working on stroke, trying to scratch in the same pocket as OB, CB set up three diamonds from OB, OB two diamonds from corner pocket, straight in shot. I can scratch now maybe every five-seven shots, and where I don’t scratch, I’m much closer than when I started. Checking that cue goes over the extra target donut to verify I’m cueing straight.

Every so often my elbow comes out a little, though less than before I started this drill.

Also, via video, and I can’t believe I was doing this, I found I was jumping up as I finished my stroke! I had no idea I was doing that. Still working on it all……
 
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