"The Color Of Money" Shot Question

Mickey Qualls

You study the watch......
Silver Member
Played league last night, this shot came up. The player didn't play it like Eddie did, but the question arose as to whether or not this would have been a legal shot.

I can't find a YouTube video to link, I'll try to (lead up to and) describe the scene...

Eddie just got beat by Mosell, and starts hustling. The old lady beats him, then he beats her double or nothing. Eddie plays the guy with the hat, who beats him and gives him the "'Kk-ckk" sound when he takes his money. Eddie banks the nine, hat guy pays Eddie (and gives hat guy the "Ckk" sound back to him).

Eddie is then wearing a sweater vest, and is looking at his shot. The cue ball is frozen to the rail, and the eight is frozen in line with the cue ball. Eddie drills the cue ball, and the eight goes in the far corner pocket. The cue ball is still frozen to the rail.

Is that a legal shot ? Or does Eddie double hit the cue ball ?
 

iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Is this the shot where he kicks into the rail, and then hits the ball? If its that shot, maybe the high karate kept it there and legal?
 

Gunn_Slinger

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've shot this one a few times. I wet the tip taking all the chalk off.
I level the cue as much as possible and mis-cue over top of the cue ball.
No double hit.
I use this method on the shot where the cue ball is corner hooked and the OB
is along the rail. Wet the tip, level the cue, hit the top of the CB into the point.
No double hit.
Good luck
ps.
I picked this method up from'Geese from the east',Mike Gerace,
Met Mike when he was 13. Nickname could have been 'Action Jackson'!!
He loved to gamble.
Miss you buddy.
 

BmoreMoney

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've shot this one a few times. I wet the tip taking all the chalk off.
I level the cue as much as possible and mis-cue over top of the cue ball.
No double hit.
I use this method on the shot where the cue ball is corner hooked and the OB
is along the rail. Wet the tip, level the cue, hit the top of the CB into the point.
No double hit.
Good luck
ps.
I picked this method up from'Geese from the east',Mike Gerace,
Met Mike when he was 13. Nickname could have been 'Action Jackson'!!
He loved to gamble.
Miss you buddy.

Yeah I miss Geese too. He sure could play but he was funny as hell too!
 

Chopdoc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Everybody and their mother was trying that back in the eighties. Wasn't hard once you got it down. I haven't tried it in 20 years. Seems a bit cliche now.



Legal? I think it depends on whether you do it right, as was essentially already said.






.
 

ChrisSjoblom

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
An intentional miscue is not a permitted shot. It is unsportsmanlike conduct.

Bob, I understand that to be true, but I'm at a loss to understand why it is unsportsmanlike conduct. Can you give an example that might clarify it for me? Thanks in advance.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Bob, I understand that to be true, but I'm at a loss to understand why it is unsportsmanlike conduct. Can you give an example that might clarify it for me? Thanks in advance.
It is not a permitted stroke (when intentional) any more than shooting with the side of you cue is a permitted stroke, and it's often the thing. Most miscues involve contact with the ferrule or shaft. Dr. Dave has lots of high-speed videos of examples, and I think all of the examples showed secondary contact. So, if it's intentional, you are shooting with the side of your stick. If a miscue is unintentional, it is an allowed shot even though there may have been ferrule contact. Judging intention is sometimes difficult.

Bob Byrne has some examples of when miscues can make shots that are not otherwise possible. One is with cue ball frozen to object ball frozen to cushion at a 45-degree angle or so. You can miscue and send the object ball straight along the rail.
 

RiverCity

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Bob Byrne has some examples of when miscues can make shots that are not otherwise possible. One is with cue ball frozen to object ball frozen to cushion at a 45-degree angle or so. You can miscue and send the object ball straight along the rail.

"Wimpy's Pinch" was another one Bob did on one of his tapes.
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Gold Member
Silver Member
It is not a permitted stroke (when intentional) any more than shooting with the side of you cue is a permitted stroke, and it's often the thing. Most miscues involve contact with the ferrule or shaft. Dr. Dave has lots of high-speed videos of examples, and I think all of the examples showed secondary contact. So, if it's intentional, you are shooting with the side of your stick. If a miscue is unintentional, it is an allowed shot even though there may have been ferrule contact. Judging intention is sometimes difficult.

Bob Byrne has some examples of when miscues can make shots that are not otherwise possible. One is with cue ball frozen to object ball frozen to cushion at a 45-degree angle or so. You can miscue and send the object ball straight along the rail.

I remember that shot....Robert said it was worth the price of the book.....
....it was worth much more to me...it helped me understand many contacts where the middle of the ball is actually under the rail....and I won a lot of prop bets.

I would let the shot go, if I was gambling at pool...but I expect a ref to call a foul.
...at snooker?....don't even think about it.
 

Gunn_Slinger

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
JUst to clear this up. It's not technically a mis-cue.The tip hits the top of the CB and
slided off and up. There is no shaft or ferrule contact, only tip contact.
It can be done with a chalked tip, but is much harder and you may foul.
There is no foul in my method.
 

BmoreMoney

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Everybody and their mother was trying that back in the eighties. Wasn't hard once you got it down. I haven't tried it in 20 years. Seems a bit cliche now.



Legal? I think it depends on whether you do it right, as was essentially already said.






.

If this is the same shot I believe it is, it was in the bag of trick shots we did to impress the girls sometimes. The problem came when inevitablely one would ask " well why don't you just shoot it straight on"? Lol. I'd always say here, my buddy will explain it to you and split !
 

Wybrook

A. Wheeler
Silver Member
You don't have to wet your tip and all that jazz...

Just hit the very top of the CB and it will not double hit.
 

Chopdoc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You don't have to wet your tip and all that jazz...

Just hit the very top of the CB and it will not double hit.


Yup. True.

No miscue necessary. Just practice it.

The harder part is actually intentionally setting up the shot without picking up the balls and placing them. LOL! MUCH harder.





.
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
The cue ball is frozen to the rail, and the eight is frozen in line with the cue ball. Eddie drills the cue ball, and the eight goes in the far corner pocket. The cue ball is still frozen to the rail.

Is that a legal shot?
This shot is certainly possible with a legal hit; although, depending on how it is hit, it could be a foul.

FYI, all of the famous movie shots are described in detail in the following articles:

"Billiards on the Big Screen - Pool Hall Junkies" (BD, October, 2004).
"Billiards on the Big Screen - The Color of Money" (BD, September, 2004).
"Billiards on the Big Screen - The Hustler" (BD, August, 2004).

and the following video demonstrates a version of the shot in question:

NV A.9 - Frozen kick off the rail shot

Enjoy,
Dave
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
IMost miscues involve contact with the ferrule or shaft. Dr. Dave has lots of high-speed videos of examples, and I think all of the examples showed secondary contact.
Here's the video:

HSV B.36 - Various miscues with double-hit rule interpretation

Bob Byrne has some examples of when miscues can make shots that are not otherwise possible. One is with cue ball frozen to object ball frozen to cushion at a 45-degree angle or so. You can miscue and send the object ball straight along the rail.
FYI, this and other examples are described and demonstrated on the miscue foul resource page.

Enjoy,
Dave
 

Johnnyt

Burn all jump cues
Silver Member
I've shot this one a few times. I wet the tip taking all the chalk off.
I level the cue as much as possible and mis-cue over top of the cue ball.
No double hit.
I use this method on the shot where the cue ball is corner hooked and the OB
is along the rail. Wet the tip, level the cue, hit the top of the CB into the point.
No double hit.
Good luck
ps.
I picked this method up from'Geese from the east',Mike Gerace,
Met Mike when he was 13. Nickname could have been 'Action Jackson'!!
He loved to gamble.
Miss you buddy.

Vey cool of you for sharing that. This is one shot I never heard of. Thanks. Johnnyt
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Vey cool of you for sharing that. This is one shot I never heard of. Thanks. Johnnyt

But as pointed out before, it is illegal and unsportsmanlike conduct, depending on which rules you're playing by and how large you are.
 
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