The Greatest Greatest

jackpot

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Azer

Deanoc. Who else could sell the high end stuff he does without any pictures,
and never have a dissatisfied customer. "If you're not 100% satisfied I will return
your money".
jack
 
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measureman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
KMRUNOUT;5427956[B said:
]Who is Seka? I'm curious...[/B]

And I agree Neil Peart is one of the very best ever, but even within this thread there is contention as someone else mentioned Buddy Rich.

A good friend of mine is WAY into horse racing. While she believes Secretariat is the greatest (and probably this also contributed to me believing the same), on many top whatever number lists, he isn't always #1. Some think Man O' War was better overall. Bloodhorse magazine, a pretty important publication in horse racing, ranked Secretariat #2 behind Man O' War. Big Red is still my pick though.

Jordan is going to be a popular choice for the most decisive GOAT I think.

KMRUNOUT

Seka was possibly the best looking female porn star of the 80's.
So in that venue I'm going to say John Holmes GOAT.
 

KissedOut

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ok so we often have conversations about who is the greatest of all time. My guess is that Efren Reyes gets the most votes in that category, especially if you ask pro pool players.

My question is (and this certainly will be partially NPR): Of all the sports out there, which greatest of all time is so, with the least dispute?

I think titles, overall ability, dominance among peers, style and grace, records and accomplishments, longevity, and of course *magic*, would all go into selecting the GOAT. Efren clearly has all of these things. But arguments could be made for Earl, Willie, etc.

Some of the less disputable greatests might be Wayne Gretzky, Michael Jordan, Roger Federer.

So the criteria for The Greatest of the Greatest of All Time list would be simply, who is *most convincingly* and universally considered the greatest of all time in their respective discipline. I'm kinda thinking Gretzky. What do you guys think?

I'd love to hear peoples Top 10, top 5, etc. whatever you want, list of the GGOAT.

And...GO!

KMRUNOUT

Torbjorn Blomdahl. Revolutionized his game (3-cushions) and beat the arguably greatest pool player (Reyes) 9-5 in nineball.
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Joe DiMaggio

I can't speak to things like racquetball and darts, but if we're considering the major "real" team sports you have to give strong consideration to Joe DiMaggio. I know this is a curious choice but it is only because he played so long ago, and very few people alive have actually seen him play. Also, he retired in 1951 when baseball was just starting to be televised, so there is very little record of his fielding capability.

For starters, DiMaggio was the most anticipated minor leaguer to come to the big leagues in history. The buzz was amped up even more because DiMaggio's start was delayed a month due to an injury (a stupid trainer scalded his leg in trying to treat a sore foot). So how does the young DiMaggio perform during this intense media blitz? He responds by getting the most hits in a rookie's first month, 48, a record that still stands. This included 4 triples and 4 home runs. Also, in the 7 years prior to DiMag's arrival, the struggling Yankees made 1 World Series appearance. After his arrival, and without any other significant changes to the team, the Yankees go to the World Series in 9 of the following 10 years. The impact he had on his teammates was incredible.

My 86 year old father used to live near the stadium and watched him play many times. Several years ago I got into a conversation with him and said, "C'mon now, how good was he really." His answer was this: "Take Derek Jeter and put him at shortstop at your local high school baseball game. Everybody will immediately notice that the guy at short is a helluva lot better than the rest of the players. The difference between Jeter and the high school players is not as great as the difference between DiMag and the rest of the professional players." I had trouble believing this, so in the ensuing years he ended up writing a book on DiMaggio, now in its second printing! Umpire Art Passarella (who had also umpired in the negro leagues) said, "He had the greatest instinct of any ball player I ever saw, he made the rest of them look like plumbers." I guess that is another way of saying it!

Amazingly, there are many books on DiMaggio, but none devoted to analyzing his game statistics and the intangibles. Throughout the course of the book, you learn all these amazing things he did that nobody ever heard about, but the kicker is that if you didn't actually see him play you can't appreciate how good he was. He was even better than the numbers show, and if you look at the numbers on an annual basis, he is unparalleled (not even close). Consider this one: in 1937 he hits for the cycle. OK, it's been done before, what's the big deal? For starters, he not only hits for the cycle, but he also hits an extra home run in the same game (9 innings), a feat that has never been matched. OK, let's call that a fluke. 11 years later in 1948 and after missing 3 prime years to WWII, DiMaggio hits for the cycle again AND hits an extra home run again (9 innings)!

Of course I'm not trying to convince anybody in a few short paragraphs and I'm not intending to sell books here. I'm just saying that by the time you finish reading this book you will conclude that he was the best player in baseball, recent history included, and that included Babe Ruth (Ruth single-handedly saved baseball after the black sox scandal and was freakish in his pitching/hitting capability, but he wasn't as valuable all around as DiMaggio).

Great thread!
 

ChicagoRJ

EEEEEXCELLENT ;)
Silver Member
Ludwig Heinrich Gehrig (Iron Horse) was better than Joe in every offensive statistical category, including winning 6 World Series rings. Not to mention never MISSING a game for 15 seasons. And yep, military service cut into Joe's playing time, but Lou got struck with ALS and died 2 years later.

But as good as Lou was, I think there are a few even better statistically speaking if you really crunch the numbers, Ty Cobb, Babe Ruth, Honus Wagner, etc.

But Lou was top 5, now it's just a matter of putting in 1-4 ;)
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ludwig Heinrich Gehrig (Iron Horse) was better than Joe in every offensive statistical category, including winning 6 World Series rings. Not to mention never MISSING a game for 15 seasons. And yep, military service cut into Joe's playing time, but Lou got struck with ALS and died 2 years later.

But as good as Lou was, I think there are a few even better statistically speaking if you really crunch the numbers, Ty Cobb, Babe Ruth, Honus Wagner, etc.

But Lou was top 5, now it's just a matter of putting in 1-4 ;)

We've crunched a lot of numbers. Gehrig had 6 rings and DiMaggio had 9. Crunching numbers was the point of my father's book. Not only was DiMaggio #1 in virtually all important categories, including Gehrig, he was #1 by anywhere from a large margin to a ridiculously large margin. Gehrig was often the closest of those compared to DiMaggio. I should also say that you have to be a little careful of what stats you look at. For instance, home runs are almost totally useless due to the extreme differences in field dimensions. You have to do a little digging to get to meaningful comparisons. Pete Rose has the greatest number of hits but it took him a zillion years to get there. He was the most prolific hitter due to longevity, but that doesn't make him the greatest pure hitter of all time (although he was great).

The other point of the book, and a frustration that cannot be resolved, is did you ever see DiMaggio play? If not, you are missing something that is even more remarkable than his offensive numbers. Many of DiMaggio's contemporaries said he was the best all time (and hitting was only a part of it).
 

JE54

Gotta get a new dentist.
Silver Member
Secretariat, Big Red as he was called, while he was good to great in the Derby and the Preakness. But winning the Belmont by 31 lengths will never be touched. Like the announcer said, Secretariat, coming to the end of the backstretch in the Belmont, he's moving like a Tremendous Machine !
 

jb1911

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Gretzky is the greatest hockey player, there is no question about that.
All other sports can be argued, but not hockey.

Baseball = Ty Cobb
Golf = Bobby Jones
BBall = Michael Jordan
Pool = Efren Reyes
 

KMRUNOUT

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This has been one of my favorite threads I've posted so far. Really cool info, in many cases about people I've never heard of. Or in disciplines I've never hear of. Wheelchair tennis? Wow I never would have imagined. That is some serious skill right there.

KMRUNOUT
 

Corwyn_8

Energy Curmudgeon
Silver Member
Dioxippus (Διόξιππος) was an ancient Greek pankratiast [almost no holds barred boxing/wrestling. eye gouging was out], renowned for his Olympic victories in the sport of pankration. His fame and skill were such that he was crowned Olympic champion by default in 336 BC when no other pankratiast dared meet him on the field.

He gets my vote.
 
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Corwyn_8

Energy Curmudgeon
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If any sport gets two nominees, I think that disqualifies the whole sport. If there is any controversy at all, it can't compete with a sport in which everyone agrees on the best.
 

axejunkie

AzB Gold Member
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John Brzenk is generally regarded as the greatest arm wrestler of all time. I'm mostly reporting this as I don't have intimate knowledge of the sport.

I didn't see Richard Petty mentioned for NASCAR. I think an overall auto racing nomination would be much too difficult with all the disciplines.

I also feel pro football is too difficult to decide on one player as the positions are so unique. Jerry Rice, Jim Brown, Lawrence Taylor, Joe Montana, Reggie White, Ronnie Lott...we could go on and on until 2100 on that.
 

KMRUNOUT

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If any sport gets two nominees, I think that disqualifies the whole sport. If there is any controversy at all, it can't compete with a sport in which everyone agrees on the best.

Exactly what I was getting at.

KMRUNOUT
 

KMRUNOUT

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
John Brzenk is generally regarded as the greatest arm wrestler of all time. I'm mostly reporting this as I don't have intimate knowledge of the sport.

I didn't see Richard Petty mentioned for NASCAR. I think an overall auto racing nomination would be much too difficult with all the disciplines.

I also feel pro football is too difficult to decide on one player as the positions are so unique. Jerry Rice, Jim Brown, Lawrence Taylor, Joe Montana, Reggie White, Ronnie Lott...we could go on and on until 2100 on that.

Well we could talk about performance at a given position. Best quarterback, best wide receiver, best defensive tackle, etc.

KMRUNOUT
 

PoolBum

Ace in the side.
Silver Member
Secretariat, Big Red as he was called, while he was good to great in the Derby and the Preakness. But winning the Belmont by 31 lengths will never be touched. Like the announcer said, Secretariat, coming to the end of the backstretch in the Belmont, he's moving like a Tremendous Machine !

I think he was great in all three races. He set the fastest times for the Derby and the Preakness which still stand, and remarkably enough in the Derby he ran each quarter-mile faster than the previous one, covering the last quarter-mile in 23 flat.

The most impressive part of his Belmont victory was his time of 2:24 for the mile-and-a-half on dirt, a time which has never been equaled anywhere in the world before or since.
 

Bob Jewett

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Exactly what I was getting at.

KMRUNOUT
Well, then, it's Walter Lindrum and English billiards. In championships he had to give the other players 30% start and he still won. Read Ricketts' biography of him.

Maybe that Greek guy is up there too, but I never got to see him fight.
 

KMRUNOUT

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Well, then, it's Walter Lindrum and English billiards. In championships he had to give the other players 30% start and he still won. Read Ricketts' biography of him.

Maybe that Greek guy is up there too, but I never got to see him fight.

Yeah those both sound like good choices for the greatest greatest. The wheelchair tennis girl too.

KMRUNOUT
 

jackpot

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I got it

I don't know what I was thinking but this guy came to Dallas in the 60's, I believe
Ti brought him in to try and trap someone. Billy Mays the greatest shuffleboard
player ever. Dominated it for over 40 years. Top that. Dick Lane would bring him
to openings of new Clicks pool rooms .Look him up,
jack
 
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