Thoughts on IPT....

mnorwood

mnorwood

Moon
Silver Member
This thread is not meant to be a criticism of the IPT. I really hope it works out.

If the format is winner breaks, then I believe it is possible that entire sets will be played without one of the players getting to shoot. Straight pool masters like Efren, Thomas Engert and Thorston Hohmon are going to run multiple racks at a time if not the entire set.

Is anyone in the az world of the same mind or am I imagining things?

If this turns out to be the case do you think rules will have to be adjusted or the game changed to keep people interested?
 
It might happen, but I doubt it.

Of course one player might run 3,4,5 racks and then the other player gets to the table and runs 6.

Could prove to be quite interesting and add to the excitement.

It would mean that no player is ever out of it.

Jake
 
There are 2 ways to look at it. One way is that, with alternative break, every player can get to the table. The matches will be closer because both players have equal chances to break. On the other hand, with alternative breaks, the opportunity for a player to come back from more than a few of racks is limited. Suppose a player's trailing by 5 racks, he would have to hope that his opponent doesn't break and run out at least twice, while he has to break and run out at least twice himself. With the skills of the top pros, I think the probability of them running out is quite high. So, the probability of a player comming back after trailing by 6, 7, 8, or more racks is virtually none.
 
I can see lots of break and runs, but I honestly think that the majority of the games will be multiple inning games, with the winner most likely decided by a well played safe. IMO, slower tables with tighter pockets equals lots of clusters to break up and tighter traffic to move through.
 
I like the format, but I think the race is to long for TV matches. Best of 3 sets, race to 9,takes well over a couple of hours. I really think that ESPN has come a long way due to the fact that most 9 Ball races are only to 7 now as compared to 11 or 13 in years past. Even though it may not be the best test for the players, the race to 7 allows the viewer to see all facets of the game (safety play etc), and allows the viewer to "get involved with the game." Personally, in my opinion people do not enjoy just seeing highlights of the match. They want to see the strategy and small details that can be overlooked when only highlights are shown. Personally, if the IPT is only going to be given a one hour slot for each match they need to change the format to a single race to 5 or 7 (just for the tv matches). It would be even nicer if they were given enough time to completely televise the entire match, but thats just my opinion.

Thanks!
Anthony
 
Anthony_Beeler said:
I like the format, but I think the race is to long for TV matches. Best of 3 sets, race to 9,takes well over a couple of hours. I really think that ESPN has come a long way due to the fact that most 9 Ball races are only to 7 now as compared to 11 or 13 in years past. Even though it may not be the best test for the players, the race to 7 allows the viewer to see all facets of the game (safety play etc), and allows the viewer to "get involved with the game." Personally, in my opinion people do not enjoy just seeing highlights of the match. They want to see the strategy and small details that can be overlooked when only highlights are shown. Personally, if the IPT is only going to be given a one hour slot for each match they need to change the format to a single race to 5 or 7 (just for the tv matches). It would be even nicer if they were given enough time to completely televise the entire match, but thats just my opinion.

Thanks!
Anthony
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I'm not totally sure, but I think the main tournaments will be races to 8 matches, and round robins within our groups, so that everyone will be playing everyone races to 8 - not best 2 out of 3. That might be in the finals.
 
Slow nap, big tables, old rules, Sigels on the hill, IMO regardless of the money the game is going backwards. Trudeaus opinions on how the game can be better are typical complaints of your average bar banger that doesn't know the game.
 
sliprock said:
I can see lots of break and runs, but I honestly think that the majority of the games will be multiple inning games, with the winner most likely decided by a well played safe. IMO, slower tables with tighter pockets equals lots of clusters to break up and tighter traffic to move through.
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Slip-man,
You may be right, but may also be wrong when it comes to the very best players. There is an Accu-Stats video of Francisco Bustamante and Troy Frank competing at 8-ball (I don't recall the size of the pockets, but they were racing to 7 or 9). Every time the breaker made a ball, he ran out. Every time he failed to make a ball on the break, his opponent ran out. If there was one safety in the hour and a half match, I don't remember it. It's been a long time since I viewed it, but you catch my drift.

I wonder if the posters talking about all of the opportunities for creative safeties are thinking more about players at the league level than the top pro level - these guys were running out from everywhere (only the drunkest league player in history could imagine he plays like these guys). As in 9-ball, these top pro 8-ball matches seem to be decided by the luck of the power break. I'm ready for someone to bring back straight pool if they really want to identify the best players; 8-ball is not the way.

P.S. - Are you a Slippery Rock alumnus/student?
 
The IPT is trying to market a game that everyone is familiar with and that is very logical. However, not everyone is familiar with how well these top pros play. The professional bowling equivelent of 8 ball would be lanes with bumpers.

I think the IPT will either evolve or die out just like any other business venture.

I think alot of matches will be decided by who breaks first. We shall see.
 
Williebetmore said:
Slip-man,
You may be right, but may also be wrong when it comes to the very best players. There is an Accu-Stats video of Francisco Bustamante and Troy Frank competing at 8-ball (I don't recall the size of the pockets, but they were racing to 7 or 9). Every time the breaker made a ball, he ran out. Every time he failed to make a ball on the break, his opponent ran out. If there was one safety in the hour and a half match, I don't remember it. It's been a long time since I viewed it, but you catch my drift.

I wonder if the posters talking about all of the opportunities for creative safeties are thinking more about players at the league level than the top pro level - these guys were running out from everywhere (only the drunkest league player in history could imagine he plays like these guys). As in 9-ball, these top pro 8-ball matches seem to be decided by the luck of the power break. I'm ready for someone to bring back straight pool if they really want to identify the best players; 8-ball is not the way.

P.S. - Are you a Slippery Rock alumnus/student?
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Actually they were races to 8. I have most of the tapes from the tournament. It was almost always a run out by the breaker or his opponent in the first inning. The only singificantly long game was between Efren and Busta, their 3rd game I think, when enough balls were tied up that they both purposely were missing trying to rearrang the tables so they could finish. Even with smaller pockets and "slow" cloth it will be runout city. I enjoy watching that, but I'm not sure the audience being addressed will.
 
mnorwood said:
I think alot of matches will be decided by who breaks first. We shall see.
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Wood-man,
I'm afraid you may be correct. At the risk of being repetitive (this has been discussed before), I'll mention the issue of "luck of the break." Over 2 years at DCC we looked at the results of the opening 9-ball break, and tried to predict the winner of the game based on the layout, rather than on who was shooting. We predicted the winner of the rack 80% of the time the first year (over 50 racks). The second year we were 10 out of 10 when we quit from boredom.

For a championship game to be so predictable, and based so heavily on the outcome of the "luck-filled power break" is sad. I'm afraid your prediction that 8-ball will be the same is probably accurate. Even if it is not, as fans become aware that the game is pretty well decided the moment the balls are broken, they will lose some degree of interest. I know I have. These games are great as exhibitions of skill, but terrible as a way to differentiate players of similar abilities. Do we want luck to weigh so heavily, or do we want to know who is the best player?
 
You need to play it, to appreciate it.

I know this is a dead horse that gets beaten alot on this forum, but its still true: joe six pack can not watch a player like efren run a 7 pack in pool and appreciate the difficulty of such an achievement.

I have won bar tournaments, and have finished in the money numerous times in 8 ball tournaments played on the big tables. However, I only break and run maybe 1 out of 15 racks. That being said, even though I can be the king of chumps I'm not jack compared to the players on the IPT list.

For all you other AZers who do well in league and have dillusions of grandure do what I did; go to a regional pro event and see just where you stand. I learned two things: 1. I am not worthy of carrying a pros cue case. 2. 8ball is a joke for these guys.
 
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