Tips on players who stall

DEGAMO88

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Does anyone have a good suggestion as to how to handle an opponent who stalls during a match? Outside of a shot clock, what could you use to speed up the play of your opponent?
 
DEGAMO88 said:
Does anyone have a good suggestion as to how to handle an opponent who stalls during a match? Outside of a shot clock, what could you use to speed up the play of your opponent?


U mean slow play? Do not play him again.That is one of the vey few options left in dealing with the slow players.Complaining to the Tournament Director is not going to help much because there are no clear rules on this issue.
 
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Tell him that you are putting a timer on yourself to add up all the time you spend during your innings at the table and that he can pay the difference when you close out the table.
 
DEGAMO88 said:
Does anyone have a good suggestion as to how to handle an opponent who stalls during a match? Outside of a shot clock, what could you use to speed up the play of your opponent?

Some players do take an excessive amount of time in analyzing the layout of the table, and then before they pull the trigger, they go through an individualistic ritual each and every time. If the delay is extreme, the only option is to make the tournament director aware and let him/her be the judge. Tournament directors do not like slow play. It stagnates the chart, the tournament comes to a halt, and the other players begin to whine and moan about long wait times between matches. :eek:

I have the opposite problem. I'd like to know what one can do to SLOW DOWN a player when they are in the pit. I believe if a player shoots too fast and doesn't take time to address the table, it ends up getting them out of line and/or missing easy shots. :mad:

Some players are rhythm shooters, and when they end up facing a slow and deliberate opponent, it takes the wind out of their sails. Most high-profile events have a 30-second shot clock in effect. When a shot clock is not used, I think anything over 3 minutes per shot is too slow. The tournament director has the final say in all competitive events. :)

JAM
 
JAM said:
Some players do take an excessive amount of time in analyzing the layout of the table, and then before they pull the trigger, they go through an individualistic ritual each and every time. If the delay is extreme, the only option is to make the tournament director aware and let him/her be the judge. Tournament directors do not like slow play. It stagnates the chart, the tournament comes to a halt, and the other players begin to whine and moan about long wait times between matches. :eek:

I have the opposite problem. I'd like to know what one can do to SLOW DOWN a player when they are in the pit. I believe if a player shoots too fast and doesn't take time to address the table, it ends up getting them out of line and/or missing easy shots. :mad:

Some players are rhythm shooters, and when they end up facing a slow and deliberate opponent, it takes the wind out of their sails. Most high-profile events have a 30-second shot clock in effect. When a shot clock is not used, I think anything over 3 minutes per shot is too slow. The tournament director has the final say in all competitive events. :)

JAM
On the Camel tour they used to watch the score of each match and then put you on a 30 second shot clock if it wasn't half over in one hour. I had this done to me only one time, not very cool if your down 6-2 in a race to 9 10-ball to Jimmy Fusco and he's spent all the time at the table getting ahead, and then you have to hurry to try and catch up. Sucked #$@#. Not a very good method, imho.

Most of the top guys play fairly quickly, unless the match is close, then a lot of them take forever. Then you almost have to slow down, to match their pace and be sure you don't make a stupid mistake. The ones that are slowest will complain the most about being slow played. Playing Luc Salvas will make you feel like you're stalling like hell though, LOL!

I'd like to see some sort of chess type timers used, so only the slow player gets forced to play faster, and you can spend more time when you need it in a tough spot.

Or just a 30 to 45 second shot clock with 2 or 3 time outs per match. One problem is that a lot of times the tables are too close together and you have to wait on everybody just to get around the table.

unknownpro
 
unknownpro said:
On the Camel tour they used to watch the score of each match and then put you on a 30 second shot clock if it wasn't half over in one hour. I had this done to me only one time, not very cool if your down 6-2 in a race to 9 10-ball to Jimmy Fusco and he's spent all the time at the table getting ahead, and then you have to hurry to try and catch up. Sucked #$@#. Not a very good method, imho.

Most of the top guys play fairly quickly, unless the match is close, then a lot of them take forever. Then you almost have to slow down, to match their pace and be sure you don't make a stupid mistake. The ones that are slowest will complain the most about being slow played. Playing Luc Salvas will make you feel like you're stalling like hell though, LOL!

I'd like to see some sort of chess type timers used, so only the slow player gets forced to play faster, and you can spend more time when you need it in a tough spot.

Or just a 30 to 45 second shot clock with 2 or 3 time outs per match. One problem is that a lot of times the tables are too close together and you have to wait on everybody just to get around the table.

unknownpro

The chess timer idea is the most brilliant idea I've heard so far....what does anyone else think of this?? This would be fantastic!! That way they could keep a steady pace throughout the match and take more time when needed, not on every shot.
 
I thought the term Stall referred to a player not showing their full ability not to slow play? But if this is a regular friend you practice with, I would have a talk with them about...or just avoid playing with them.
 
I don't know of another issue in pool that gets me more riled up and pissed off than a slow dragging ass player. My ultimate fantasy solution would be to shoot bullets at his feet and make him dance like in the old cowboy movies, or else.

There was just a big article in the Atlanta newpaper today about slow play on the PGA Tour and what a problem it is. It's infuriating in golf as well, not only for players playing in the same group with the snail, but the groups behind that are also forced to play slow the entire round until the asshole finishes his round and gets off the course. Even the fans get infuriated at having to be subjected to it. Here's an example:

John Daly takes - 19 seconds to hit a tee shot - 12 seconds to hit an approach shot - and 16 seconds to hit his first putt.

The slowest prick on the PGA Tour is Ben Crane and drives EVERYONE nuts.
He takes - 52 seconds to hit a tee shot - 1:34 to hit an approach shot - and 1:18 to hit his first putt! THAT is his AVERAGE... which is NOT his slowest when he's REALLY screwing around.

The PGA Tour has a standard of 40 seconds per shot.

Here's the entire article. Have a good read and maybe something can be gleaned from it to be applied to pool. I still think the 30 second shot clock is about the fairest way to go and should be applied EVERYWHERE and all the time.

Mike Reid, a Champions Tour player at age 51, suggested a decade ago at a Players Championship meeting that a shot clock was the answer. Put one behind every green and force lagging players to pull the trigger in time or face a buzzer in their backswing.

"It was a joke," Atlanta's Billy Andrade said, "but he was kind of serious. He wanted to see guys get their act in gear."

"I guess it was just my puckish humor coming out, because we were near April and the NCAA basketball tournament," said Reid, who competed at Baltusrol this week as the Senior PGA champion.

But here's what's no joke. In 2005, scientists can make the golf ball fly out of sight by adding titanium, but they still can't make tour players get the lead out.

More evidence surfaced at the 18th tee Friday at the PGA Championship, where more than a hole was open in front of the group that contained slow-play poster boy BEN CRANE. When Crane, a former BellSouth Classic champion, fidgeted and fussed over the ball, taking 52 seconds to launch his drive - compared to 19 seconds from John Daly hours before - hot, sweaty fans behind him were groaning.

"HEY, while we're young," one said, "HIT THE BALL".

"Geez, you're puttin' me to sleep", another said.

"It's just getting ridiculous," said Andrade, who claims a lethargic playing partner in the 1996 U.S. Open was so irritating that Andrade made a few late bogeys that cost him a spot in the 1997 Masters.

"We had a little chat afterward," Andrade said.

The most recent ugliness came in June at the Booz Allen Classic, mwhen South Africa's Rory Sabbatini played AHEAD of partner Crane, holing out before he even reached the green.

"He's one of my best friends on tour," Duluth's Stewart Cink said, "but he needs to play faster, and he knows it." (meaning Crane)

While Crane says he's trying, :rolleyes: the numbers don't lie. He even took 28 seconds Friday just to hack a ball out of rough. The good news? The Bible scriptures stuffed into Crane's yardage book are read only at idle times, not before he hits, as one player has heard.

"That's absurd", Crane said.

What's the solultion? What if a pace monitor were stationed on every hole, with the authority to add a stroke to a guilty player's score, possibly even without warning, using on-the-scene observations, not merely a time figure, which often hides the blame.

"It would scare players," Paul Azinger said. "It would scare me, and I'm a fast player."

With so much money available on the PGA Tour these days, even the $20,000 fine for 10 clock violations, as incurred by Brent Geiberger, if fairly meaningless. Still, veteran Jay Haas adds, "That still would be a pretty tough check to write. It's not like it's 20 grand for a new TV or stereo."

Strokes are the only serious deterrent, the pros say, especially if dispensed on the spot by an independent observer. Getting the frugal PGA Tour to agree to such an expense is a separate issue.

"Nobody wants to get a penalty stroke; I know that," Cink said. "I can't say it would fix all the problems, but it's a lot easier to take a fine than a penalty stroke".

Although the PGA Tour on paper beefed up its official policy last year to supposedly apply a one-stroke penalty if a player does not speed up after a first warning, the plan obviously isn't working.

Typically, a player speeds up when on the clock, but many times the damage already has been done to the field.

As it stands, when a threesome is put on the clock - rather than the guilty player nabbed - it puts pressure on everyone.

"That's why a lot of the fast players get mad," Tim Herron said, "because now they're trying to speed up more when they're already fast, so they're playing out of their game. Then if you happen to need more time for a trouble shot, you might not feel you can take it."

Azinger would love to see someone drop the hammer on violators but fears it might create "an abuse of power".

"I could see that happening if the guy hits it off line and he's got a situation," Azinger said. "There's times when it's OK for a guy to take longer than his time. You can have a justifiable bad time."

What can't be justified, they say, is for a few players to ruin the product.

"There's about a dozen or 15 players who are notorious," Cink said. "They know who to watch."
 
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DEGAMO88 said:
Does anyone have a good suggestion as to how to handle an opponent who stalls during a match? Outside of a shot clock, what could you use to speed up the play of your opponent?


I played a guy a couple of weeks ago who usually takes 40-60 mintues to play a race to 5. I was up at the table after his every miss before he could shake his head and move away. I won 5-0 because I was playing quickly, and not letting him sit back down. It was the right way to go on my part, but he will sit in a chair and stare off into space given a chance.
 
DEGAMO88 said:
Does anyone have a good suggestion as to how to handle an opponent who stalls during a match? Outside of a shot clock, what could you use to speed up the play of your opponent?
Stalling is when a player intentionally doesn't play to the best of his ability. What you're referring to is slow-playing.
 
DEGAMO88 said:
Does anyone have a good suggestion as to how to handle an opponent who stalls during a match? Outside of a shot clock, what could you use to speed up the play of your opponent?

Forget that attempt to speed his play up
Completely torture the guy.
FIRE IT RIGHT BACK AT HIM!

If you end up with a situation, where you have a duck 7-8-9, or 6-7-8-9, or even a duck out.
Just take maybe 50 to 100 strokes before you shoot each ball in. This includes, getting up to check out the shot angle multiple times. Fussing to make sure you have the perfect amount of chalk on your tip, only to take your warm up strokes, and deliberately pull the shaft too far back, so you wipe the chalk off onto your finger, so that you have to RE do it. Pretending to ALMOST pull the trigger, and then stopping and getting up. Also, if it is a simple stop shot, where you already have perfect position, make sure you go around the table to check every possible angle, like it's some super hard position shot so then when you finally get down to shoot, and you do it quick, he's even more annoyed, knowing that what he was thinking the whole time, that there is not reason for all this fuss, is true.
Unless he's really mentaly fortified, he's gonna go completely out of his/her mind. You'd be surprised at how many people get rattled because of this.

I have used this technique many times with great success, although i HAVE gotten in a lot of arguments when i busted out laughing in the middle of stroking. Sometimes so hard, that i would excuse myself to go to the bathroom, where i completely lost it and went into hysterics (which of course the whole room and my opponnent could hear through the door)

Yes i know, i am a sick pup.
 
SUPERSTAR said:
Forget that attempt to speed his play up
Completely torture the guy.
FIRE IT RIGHT BACK AT HIM!

If you end up with a situation, where you have a duck 7-8-9, or 6-7-8-9, or even a duck out.
Just take maybe 50 to 100 strokes before you shoot each ball in. This includes, getting up to check out the shot angle multiple times. Fussing to make sure you have the perfect amount of chalk on your tip, only to take your warm up strokes, and deliberately pull the shaft too far back, so you wipe the chalk off onto your finger, so that you have to RE do it. Pretending to ALMOST pull the trigger, and then stopping and getting up. Also, if it is a simple stop shot, where you already have perfect position, make sure you go around the table to check every possible angle, like it's some super hard position shot so then when you finally get down to shoot, and you do it quick, he's even more annoyed, knowing that what he was thinking the whole time, that there is not reason for all this fuss, is true.
Unless he's really mentaly fortified, he's gonna go completely out of his/her mind. You'd be surprised at how many people get rattled because of this.

I have used this technique many times with great success, although i HAVE gotten in a lot of arguments when i busted out laughing in the middle of stroking. Sometimes so hard, that i would excuse myself to go to the bathroom, where i completely lost it and went into hysterics (which of course the whole room and my opponnent could hear through the door)

Yes i know, i am a sick pup.


BINGO! Makes um crazy to turn it back on them!

Hu
 
drivermaker said:
I don't know of another issue in pool that gets me more riled up and pissed off than a slow dragging ass player. My ultimate fantasy solution would be to shoot bullets at his feet and make him dance like in the old cowboy movies, or else.

There was just a big article in the Atlanta newpaper today about slow play on the PGA Tour and what a problem it is. It's infuriating in golf as well, not only for players playing in the same group with the snail, but the groups behind that are also forced to play slow the entire round until the asshole finishes his round and gets off the course. Even the fans get infuriated at having to be subjected to it. Here's an example:

John Daly takes - 19 seconds to hit a tee shot - 12 seconds to hit an approach shot - and 16 seconds to hit his first putt.

The slowest prick on the PGA Tour is Ben Crane and drives EVERYONE nuts.
He takes - 52 seconds to hit a tee shot - 1:34 to hit an approach shot - and 1:18 to hit his first putt! THAT is his AVERAGE... which is NOT his slowest when he's REALLY screwing around.

The PGA Tour has a standard of 40 seconds per shot.

Here's the entire article. Have a good read and maybe something can be gleaned from it to be applied to pool. I still think the 30 second shot clock is about the fairest way to go and should be applied EVERYWHERE and all the time.

Mike Reid, a Champions Tour player at age 51, suggested a decade ago at a Players Championship meeting that a shot clock was the answer. Put one behind every green and force lagging players to pull the trigger in time or face a buzzer in their backswing.

"It was a joke," Atlanta's Billy Andrade said, "but he was kind of serious. He wanted to see guys get their act in gear."

"I guess it was just my puckish humor coming out, because we were near April and the NCAA basketball tournament," said Reid, who competed at Baltusrol this week as the Senior PGA champion.

But here's what's no joke. In 2005, scientists can make the golf ball fly out of sight by adding titanium, but they still can't make tour players get the lead out.

More evidence surfaced at the 18th tee Friday at the PGA Championship, where more than a hole was open in front of the group that contained slow-play poster boy BEN CRANE. When Crane, a former BellSouth Classic champion, fidgeted and fussed over the ball, taking 52 seconds to launch his drive - compared to 19 seconds from John Daly hours before - hot, sweaty fans behind him were groaning.

"HEY, while we're young," one said, "HIT THE BALL".

"Geez, you're puttin' me to sleep", another said.

"It's just getting ridiculous," said Andrade, who claims a lethargic playing partner in the 1996 U.S. Open was so irritating that Andrade made a few late bogeys that cost him a spot in the 1997 Masters.

"We had a little chat afterward," Andrade said.

The most recent ugliness came in June at the Booz Allen Classic, mwhen South Africa's Rory Sabbatini played AHEAD of partner Crane, holing out before he even reached the green.

"He's one of my best friends on tour," Duluth's Stewart Cink said, "but he needs to play faster, and he knows it." (meaning Crane)

While Crane says he's trying, :rolleyes: the numbers don't lie. He even took 28 seconds Friday just to hack a ball out of rough. The good news? The Bible scriptures stuffed into Crane's yardage book are read only at idle times, not before he hits, as one player has heard.

"That's absurd", Crane said.

What's the solultion? What if a pace monitor were stationed on every hole, with the authority to add a stroke to a guilty player's score, possibly even without warning, using on-the-scene observations, not merely a time figure, which often hides the blame.

"It would scare players," Paul Azinger said. "It would scare me, and I'm a fast player."

With so much money available on the PGA Tour these days, even the $20,000 fine for 10 clock violations, as incurred by Brent Geiberger, if fairly meaningless. Still, veteran Jay Haas adds, "That still would be a pretty tough check to write. It's not like it's 20 grand for a new TV or stereo."

Strokes are the only serious deterrent, the pros say, especially if dispensed on the spot by an independent observer. Getting the frugal PGA Tour to agree to such an expense is a separate issue.

"Nobody wants to get a penalty stroke; I know that," Cink said. "I can't say it would fix all the problems, but it's a lot easier to take a fine than a penalty stroke".

Although the PGA Tour on paper beefed up its official policy last year to supposedly apply a one-stroke penalty if a player does not speed up after a first warning, the plan obviously isn't working.

Typically, a player speeds up when on the clock, but many times the damage already has been done to the field.

As it stands, when a threesome is put on the clock - rather than the guilty player nabbed - it puts pressure on everyone.

"That's why a lot of the fast players get mad," Tim Herron said, "because now they're trying to speed up more when they're already fast, so they're playing out of their game. Then if you happen to need more time for a trouble shot, you might not feel you can take it."

Azinger would love to see someone drop the hammer on violators but fears it might create "an abuse of power".

"I could see that happening if the guy hits it off line and he's got a situation," Azinger said. "There's times when it's OK for a guy to take longer than his time. You can have a justifiable bad time."

What can't be justified, they say, is for a few players to ruin the product.

"There's about a dozen or 15 players who are notorious," Cink said. "They know who to watch."

Enough with the golf references. What are you some kind of fanatic? What really burns me up is when they take 5 minutes to call a 100 dollar raise and they're sitting on twin kings. I'm dumb enough to raise and they're so dumb they have to think about it. OOPS, wrong forum.. You were saying?
 
SUPERSTAR said:
Forget that attempt to speed his play up
Completely torture the guy.
FIRE IT RIGHT BACK AT HIM!

If you end up with a situation, where you have a duck 7-8-9, or 6-7-8-9, or even a duck out.
Just take maybe 50 to 100 strokes before you shoot each ball in. This includes, getting up to check out the shot angle multiple times. Fussing to make sure you have the perfect amount of chalk on your tip, only to take your warm up strokes, and deliberately pull the shaft too far back, so you wipe the chalk off onto your finger, so that you have to RE do it. Pretending to ALMOST pull the trigger, and then stopping and getting up. Also, if it is a simple stop shot, where you already have perfect position, make sure you go around the table to check every possible angle, like it's some super hard position shot so then when you finally get down to shoot, and you do it quick, he's even more annoyed, knowing that what he was thinking the whole time, that there is not reason for all this fuss, is true.
Unless he's really mentaly fortified, he's gonna go completely out of his/her mind. You'd be surprised at how many people get rattled because of this.

I have used this technique many times with great success, although i HAVE gotten in a lot of arguments when i busted out laughing in the middle of stroking. Sometimes so hard, that i would excuse myself to go to the bathroom, where i completely lost it and went into hysterics (which of course the whole room and my opponnent could hear through the door)

Yes i know, i am a sick pup.

Sit in your chair and wait your turn. NEVER alter your play based on what the other guy does, who cares what he does even if you think he is doing it on purpose.
 
Really

Tell them you have to go to the restroom. Most tournaments do not have a provision that will penalize you for a poopy break. Just go hang out for about 10 minutes and think about what you need to focus on. Then go back to the table and smoke about a 1/3 of a cig before racking( assuming you lost the last game). Check the rack about 12 times before you sit down and then look at your opponent and tell them that is the last break they will get and they better capitolize on it. They will most likely try to make you eat those words and will probably scratch or come up with no shot based on my experience, not that I try to shark anyone.
 
Well, the question was aimed at a MATCH, so i assumed that it would include personal match ups, as well as tournaments. Obviously, some tournaments are going to have their rules, and provisions for how to deal with slow play.

But i feel that there is a huge psychological aspect to pool, and in certain situations, to change ones game accordingly so as to deal with the situations that come up, is a part of the game. If you are not capable of doing that, and what they do happens to getting under your skin and throws your game off, i would consider it a liability.

If you cannot change your game, or if a change means that you are going to play poorly, then of course you should stick with what works.
i know i can address shots and one stroke them, running around the table like KEITH, i can play normal speed, and i can play like a slug....and run out using all the different styles.

If you can do it, try it, cause you never know if it works, unless you've tried it.

Also, it depends on if you feel the slow play is intentional, or if it is just how they play. It would be rather rude to antagonize someone who does not know HOW to play at a normal pace, but if they are trying to use slow play as a move. USE EVERYTHING YOU'VE GOT!
 
LOL, it has nothing to do with slow play, but is an example of what i'm talking about

It reminds me of when i was at the OPEN, watching GINKY vs. STRICKLAND, years ago.

Ginky was racking the balls, and freezing them, and Earl would come up and start POUNDING the table next to the head ball. The head ball would roll off, and he'd point this out, and Ginky was forced to rack again.

So after a couple of times of Earl doing this on his breaks, and Ginky having to Re-rack a bunch of times, Ginky had won one of his games, turned, and with a big enthusiastic smile, gestured that he was gonna pound the table as well (doing the AIR POUND), to see how Earl liked it.

So Earl racked the balls, and Ginky went over and started pounding the table right next to the head ball, and it rolled off, and Earl was now forced to re-rack them which got a pretty big chuckle out of the crowd, and if i'm not mistaken, that was the last time any REAL effort was put into the pounding on Earls part, (it was reduced to a light tapping) and the match continued.

We were all cracking up
 
LastTwo said:
The chess timer idea is the most brilliant idea I've heard so far....what does anyone else think of this?? This would be fantastic!! That way they could keep a steady pace throughout the match and take more time when needed, not on every shot.

Well, something to that effect might be something to look into, I'm not familiar with the chess timer, but I do not like a shot clock even though I'm very fast, some shots just need more time to study, like certain clusters need a serious look over, or after or before an important safety and after the initial break in 8-ball you certainly need more than 30 seconds to make a decision.

So say I play most of my shots in 15 seconds or less, for the whole game and then I need say 2 minutes for one shot, shouldn't I get that since I played the whole game at warp speed:D

What if your given 30 seconds per shot and whatever time you don't use is saved up then whenever you go over 30 seconds you go into your reserve you have saved up? or If they are going to give extensions on a shot clock then give one 30 second and one 1 minute extensions per game, it's not like you'll need to use them every game.

So yeah, I'm sure something could be done, but It would be real real hard when the tables are close together and you have to wait on another player to shoot.
 
SlimShafty said:
Well, something to that effect might be something to look into, I'm not familiar with the chess timer, but I do not like a shot clock even though I'm very fast, some shots just need more time to study, like certain clusters need a serious look over, or after or before an important safety and after the initial break in 8-ball you certainly need more than 30 seconds to make a decision.

So say I play most of my shots in 15 seconds or less, for the whole game and then I need say 2 minutes for one shot, shouldn't I get that since I played the whole game at warp speed:D

What if your given 30 seconds per shot and whatever time you don't use is saved up then whenever you go over 30 seconds you go into your reserve you have saved up? or If they are going to give extensions on a shot clock then give one 30 second and one 1 minute extensions per game, it's not like you'll need to use them every game.

So yeah, I'm sure something could be done, but It would be real real hard when the tables are close together and you have to wait on another player to shoot.

A chess timer has two clocks, one for each player. So in a 2 hour match each player could have 1 hour to shoot. Your clock runs when you're at the table and stops when it's your opponents shot. So that's similar to what you are saying, if you play fast, you can take your time when you need to. Of course then you could just play the guy safe repeatedly if he's running out of time. And like you said, if you have to wait on other tables, spectators, waiters, waitresses or whatever it kinda blows the whole thing.

If each table had a referee like tennis, they could give warnings and then penalties for slow play, and they could rack the balls. Then they could see all these things and take them into account. Maybe with million dollar tournaments that might could happen. And the referee could tell people to sit down and not walk in front of shots. Tennis tournaments have someone at each entrance on the ends of the courts that block people from coming and going during points. Of course they don't have 8 matches going in the same place, like pool.

unknownpro
 
If you are in a tournament it would be considered very poor sportsmanship if you were to change your pace down to playing very slow to match your opponent. Your match would take forever and as a result you would hold up the tournament and piss alot of people off.
 
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