DEGAMO88 said:Does anyone have a good suggestion as to how to handle an opponent who stalls during a match? Outside of a shot clock, what could you use to speed up the play of your opponent?
DEGAMO88 said:Does anyone have a good suggestion as to how to handle an opponent who stalls during a match? Outside of a shot clock, what could you use to speed up the play of your opponent?
On the Camel tour they used to watch the score of each match and then put you on a 30 second shot clock if it wasn't half over in one hour. I had this done to me only one time, not very cool if your down 6-2 in a race to 9 10-ball to Jimmy Fusco and he's spent all the time at the table getting ahead, and then you have to hurry to try and catch up. Sucked #$@#. Not a very good method, imho.JAM said:Some players do take an excessive amount of time in analyzing the layout of the table, and then before they pull the trigger, they go through an individualistic ritual each and every time. If the delay is extreme, the only option is to make the tournament director aware and let him/her be the judge. Tournament directors do not like slow play. It stagnates the chart, the tournament comes to a halt, and the other players begin to whine and moan about long wait times between matches.![]()
I have the opposite problem. I'd like to know what one can do to SLOW DOWN a player when they are in the pit. I believe if a player shoots too fast and doesn't take time to address the table, it ends up getting them out of line and/or missing easy shots.![]()
Some players are rhythm shooters, and when they end up facing a slow and deliberate opponent, it takes the wind out of their sails. Most high-profile events have a 30-second shot clock in effect. When a shot clock is not used, I think anything over 3 minutes per shot is too slow. The tournament director has the final say in all competitive events.![]()
JAM
unknownpro said:On the Camel tour they used to watch the score of each match and then put you on a 30 second shot clock if it wasn't half over in one hour. I had this done to me only one time, not very cool if your down 6-2 in a race to 9 10-ball to Jimmy Fusco and he's spent all the time at the table getting ahead, and then you have to hurry to try and catch up. Sucked #$@#. Not a very good method, imho.
Most of the top guys play fairly quickly, unless the match is close, then a lot of them take forever. Then you almost have to slow down, to match their pace and be sure you don't make a stupid mistake. The ones that are slowest will complain the most about being slow played. Playing Luc Salvas will make you feel like you're stalling like hell though, LOL!
I'd like to see some sort of chess type timers used, so only the slow player gets forced to play faster, and you can spend more time when you need it in a tough spot.
Or just a 30 to 45 second shot clock with 2 or 3 time outs per match. One problem is that a lot of times the tables are too close together and you have to wait on everybody just to get around the table.
unknownpro
DEGAMO88 said:Does anyone have a good suggestion as to how to handle an opponent who stalls during a match? Outside of a shot clock, what could you use to speed up the play of your opponent?
Stalling is when a player intentionally doesn't play to the best of his ability. What you're referring to is slow-playing.DEGAMO88 said:Does anyone have a good suggestion as to how to handle an opponent who stalls during a match? Outside of a shot clock, what could you use to speed up the play of your opponent?
DEGAMO88 said:Does anyone have a good suggestion as to how to handle an opponent who stalls during a match? Outside of a shot clock, what could you use to speed up the play of your opponent?
SUPERSTAR said:Forget that attempt to speed his play up
Completely torture the guy.
FIRE IT RIGHT BACK AT HIM!
If you end up with a situation, where you have a duck 7-8-9, or 6-7-8-9, or even a duck out.
Just take maybe 50 to 100 strokes before you shoot each ball in. This includes, getting up to check out the shot angle multiple times. Fussing to make sure you have the perfect amount of chalk on your tip, only to take your warm up strokes, and deliberately pull the shaft too far back, so you wipe the chalk off onto your finger, so that you have to RE do it. Pretending to ALMOST pull the trigger, and then stopping and getting up. Also, if it is a simple stop shot, where you already have perfect position, make sure you go around the table to check every possible angle, like it's some super hard position shot so then when you finally get down to shoot, and you do it quick, he's even more annoyed, knowing that what he was thinking the whole time, that there is not reason for all this fuss, is true.
Unless he's really mentaly fortified, he's gonna go completely out of his/her mind. You'd be surprised at how many people get rattled because of this.
I have used this technique many times with great success, although i HAVE gotten in a lot of arguments when i busted out laughing in the middle of stroking. Sometimes so hard, that i would excuse myself to go to the bathroom, where i completely lost it and went into hysterics (which of course the whole room and my opponnent could hear through the door)
Yes i know, i am a sick pup.
drivermaker said:I don't know of another issue in pool that gets me more riled up and pissed off than a slow dragging ass player. My ultimate fantasy solution would be to shoot bullets at his feet and make him dance like in the old cowboy movies, or else.
There was just a big article in the Atlanta newpaper today about slow play on the PGA Tour and what a problem it is. It's infuriating in golf as well, not only for players playing in the same group with the snail, but the groups behind that are also forced to play slow the entire round until the asshole finishes his round and gets off the course. Even the fans get infuriated at having to be subjected to it. Here's an example:
John Daly takes - 19 seconds to hit a tee shot - 12 seconds to hit an approach shot - and 16 seconds to hit his first putt.
The slowest prick on the PGA Tour is Ben Crane and drives EVERYONE nuts.
He takes - 52 seconds to hit a tee shot - 1:34 to hit an approach shot - and 1:18 to hit his first putt! THAT is his AVERAGE... which is NOT his slowest when he's REALLY screwing around.
The PGA Tour has a standard of 40 seconds per shot.
Here's the entire article. Have a good read and maybe something can be gleaned from it to be applied to pool. I still think the 30 second shot clock is about the fairest way to go and should be applied EVERYWHERE and all the time.
Mike Reid, a Champions Tour player at age 51, suggested a decade ago at a Players Championship meeting that a shot clock was the answer. Put one behind every green and force lagging players to pull the trigger in time or face a buzzer in their backswing.
"It was a joke," Atlanta's Billy Andrade said, "but he was kind of serious. He wanted to see guys get their act in gear."
"I guess it was just my puckish humor coming out, because we were near April and the NCAA basketball tournament," said Reid, who competed at Baltusrol this week as the Senior PGA champion.
But here's what's no joke. In 2005, scientists can make the golf ball fly out of sight by adding titanium, but they still can't make tour players get the lead out.
More evidence surfaced at the 18th tee Friday at the PGA Championship, where more than a hole was open in front of the group that contained slow-play poster boy BEN CRANE. When Crane, a former BellSouth Classic champion, fidgeted and fussed over the ball, taking 52 seconds to launch his drive - compared to 19 seconds from John Daly hours before - hot, sweaty fans behind him were groaning.
"HEY, while we're young," one said, "HIT THE BALL".
"Geez, you're puttin' me to sleep", another said.
"It's just getting ridiculous," said Andrade, who claims a lethargic playing partner in the 1996 U.S. Open was so irritating that Andrade made a few late bogeys that cost him a spot in the 1997 Masters.
"We had a little chat afterward," Andrade said.
The most recent ugliness came in June at the Booz Allen Classic, mwhen South Africa's Rory Sabbatini played AHEAD of partner Crane, holing out before he even reached the green.
"He's one of my best friends on tour," Duluth's Stewart Cink said, "but he needs to play faster, and he knows it." (meaning Crane)
While Crane says he's trying,the numbers don't lie. He even took 28 seconds Friday just to hack a ball out of rough. The good news? The Bible scriptures stuffed into Crane's yardage book are read only at idle times, not before he hits, as one player has heard.
"That's absurd", Crane said.
What's the solultion? What if a pace monitor were stationed on every hole, with the authority to add a stroke to a guilty player's score, possibly even without warning, using on-the-scene observations, not merely a time figure, which often hides the blame.
"It would scare players," Paul Azinger said. "It would scare me, and I'm a fast player."
With so much money available on the PGA Tour these days, even the $20,000 fine for 10 clock violations, as incurred by Brent Geiberger, if fairly meaningless. Still, veteran Jay Haas adds, "That still would be a pretty tough check to write. It's not like it's 20 grand for a new TV or stereo."
Strokes are the only serious deterrent, the pros say, especially if dispensed on the spot by an independent observer. Getting the frugal PGA Tour to agree to such an expense is a separate issue.
"Nobody wants to get a penalty stroke; I know that," Cink said. "I can't say it would fix all the problems, but it's a lot easier to take a fine than a penalty stroke".
Although the PGA Tour on paper beefed up its official policy last year to supposedly apply a one-stroke penalty if a player does not speed up after a first warning, the plan obviously isn't working.
Typically, a player speeds up when on the clock, but many times the damage already has been done to the field.
As it stands, when a threesome is put on the clock - rather than the guilty player nabbed - it puts pressure on everyone.
"That's why a lot of the fast players get mad," Tim Herron said, "because now they're trying to speed up more when they're already fast, so they're playing out of their game. Then if you happen to need more time for a trouble shot, you might not feel you can take it."
Azinger would love to see someone drop the hammer on violators but fears it might create "an abuse of power".
"I could see that happening if the guy hits it off line and he's got a situation," Azinger said. "There's times when it's OK for a guy to take longer than his time. You can have a justifiable bad time."
What can't be justified, they say, is for a few players to ruin the product.
"There's about a dozen or 15 players who are notorious," Cink said. "They know who to watch."
SUPERSTAR said:Forget that attempt to speed his play up
Completely torture the guy.
FIRE IT RIGHT BACK AT HIM!
If you end up with a situation, where you have a duck 7-8-9, or 6-7-8-9, or even a duck out.
Just take maybe 50 to 100 strokes before you shoot each ball in. This includes, getting up to check out the shot angle multiple times. Fussing to make sure you have the perfect amount of chalk on your tip, only to take your warm up strokes, and deliberately pull the shaft too far back, so you wipe the chalk off onto your finger, so that you have to RE do it. Pretending to ALMOST pull the trigger, and then stopping and getting up. Also, if it is a simple stop shot, where you already have perfect position, make sure you go around the table to check every possible angle, like it's some super hard position shot so then when you finally get down to shoot, and you do it quick, he's even more annoyed, knowing that what he was thinking the whole time, that there is not reason for all this fuss, is true.
Unless he's really mentaly fortified, he's gonna go completely out of his/her mind. You'd be surprised at how many people get rattled because of this.
I have used this technique many times with great success, although i HAVE gotten in a lot of arguments when i busted out laughing in the middle of stroking. Sometimes so hard, that i would excuse myself to go to the bathroom, where i completely lost it and went into hysterics (which of course the whole room and my opponnent could hear through the door)
Yes i know, i am a sick pup.
LastTwo said:The chess timer idea is the most brilliant idea I've heard so far....what does anyone else think of this?? This would be fantastic!! That way they could keep a steady pace throughout the match and take more time when needed, not on every shot.
SlimShafty said:Well, something to that effect might be something to look into, I'm not familiar with the chess timer, but I do not like a shot clock even though I'm very fast, some shots just need more time to study, like certain clusters need a serious look over, or after or before an important safety and after the initial break in 8-ball you certainly need more than 30 seconds to make a decision.
So say I play most of my shots in 15 seconds or less, for the whole game and then I need say 2 minutes for one shot, shouldn't I get that since I played the whole game at warp speed![]()
What if your given 30 seconds per shot and whatever time you don't use is saved up then whenever you go over 30 seconds you go into your reserve you have saved up? or If they are going to give extensions on a shot clock then give one 30 second and one 1 minute extensions per game, it's not like you'll need to use them every game.
So yeah, I'm sure something could be done, but It would be real real hard when the tables are close together and you have to wait on another player to shoot.